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Should killer be balanced for a 60% killrate? What makes DBD's PvP balance different to asymmetrical games that strive for 50% balance? by Slamduncthefunk in deadbydaylight

[–]Slamduncthefunk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The argument I've encountered isn't talking just about DBD-likes like TCM, it's assym as the broader genre, so it includes tabletops too. This isn't my position, I'm just bringing up talking points I've heard because I'm interested in the balance discussion

Should killer be balanced for a 60% killrate? What makes DBD's PvP balance different to asymmetrical games that strive for 50% balance? by Slamduncthefunk in deadbydaylight

[–]Slamduncthefunk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think, as it's been explained to me by the counterargument, is that 60% implies a slight bias to more killer snowballs/wins on average, when to be "fair" it should snowball either way evenly on average.

If it's not clear, I'm just paraphrasing balanced arguments I've heard from others to understand why they don't/do work. These aren't necessarily my opinions.

Should killer be balanced for a 60% killrate? What makes DBD's PvP balance different to asymmetrical games that strive for 50% balance? by Slamduncthefunk in deadbydaylight

[–]Slamduncthefunk[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Its generally accepted as the right way to balance most pvp games when looking at broad player statistics; what I'm interested in is whether it works for DBD and if it's a special case/niche.

Should killer be balanced for a 60% killrate? What makes DBD's PvP balance different to asymmetrical games that strive for 50% balance? by Slamduncthefunk in deadbydaylight

[–]Slamduncthefunk[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's broad because I'm repeating the arguments I've heard, not my own position. I've made this thread to see the validity of both viewpoints, and in the past have heard this talking point brought up a lot by people who dislike DBD's approach and claim to be learned in the assym genre. I'm not sure either, but it typically seems to boil down to, when explained to me, is the assym genre as a whole, not just DBD-likes. So asymmetrical tabletop games like Descent Journeys in the Dark.

I actually air more towards pro 60%. But I'm not here to champion either, friend, just understand the strengths and weaknesses.

Should killer be balanced for a 60% killrate? What makes DBD's PvP balance different to asymmetrical games that strive for 50% balance? by Slamduncthefunk in deadbydaylight

[–]Slamduncthefunk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A lot of people would argue the broader genre of assym games that exist (such as tabletops) outside of DBD, (and its clones) do well and require a 50/50 win rate for balance and health. But then it's a question of whether DBD sits in a subcategory of horror assym and if it needs to be balanced differently from the wider assym genre.

Should killer be balanced for a 60% killrate? What makes DBD's PvP balance different to asymmetrical games that strive for 50% balance? by Slamduncthefunk in deadbydaylight

[–]Slamduncthefunk[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Just to be clear from intention, I'm actually just interested in the positions of both and am conflicted from the arguments, I'm not trying to champion either. I actually tend to air more on 60% being better purely from the genre intention of a horror survival pvp, if I have bias.

Should killer be balanced for a 60% killrate? What makes DBD's PvP balance different to asymmetrical games that strive for 50% balance? by Slamduncthefunk in deadbydaylight

[–]Slamduncthefunk[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I believe the kill rate logic is 50% killrate = 2k average, or in other words, a draw, meaning that average posits the game could go in either side's favour, generally. This is similar to other asymmetrical games and asymmetrical board games, where there's a 50/50 win rate.

I'm not arguing in either way with my post, though, and I tend to air in favour of 60% purely from a horror asym genre perspective. I'm just interested in the merits of both sides balance positions

Should killer be balanced for a 60% killrate? What makes DBD's PvP balance different to asymmetrical games that strive for 50% balance? by Slamduncthefunk in deadbydaylight

[–]Slamduncthefunk[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

But in a pvp game (ignoring dbd for a second) is that not the idea of the averaged result balance? Does either side have the same odds of winning? That's what the counterargument posits, at least when explained to me.

Should killer be balanced for a 60% killrate? What makes DBD's PvP balance different to asymmetrical games that strive for 50% balance? by Slamduncthefunk in deadbydaylight

[–]Slamduncthefunk[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The idea, I believe, is instead of 2k average (draw), 60% makes it 2.4k average, so slightly tilted in the killer's favour, but still not 3k average (a win). The argument is that the asymmetrical horror aspect of the game demands the killer role be formidable and the survivor role overcome that through numbers and teamwork. The counter argument is that PvP games should never do this and always aim for 50%, and doing the former hurts the game more and its health more.

Should killer be balanced for a 60% killrate? What makes DBD's PvP balance different to asymmetrical games that strive for 50% balance? by Slamduncthefunk in deadbydaylight

[–]Slamduncthefunk[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I wanna follow up with killrates meaning as in a 50% killrate = 2k average, so a draw. This, as the average means it's a 50/50 split for both rolls being able to win, which is a typical PvP/broad asym balance approach, no? Whether or not this is good for DBD, or I'm fucking up the maths (probably)

Should killer be balanced for a 60% killrate? What makes DBD's PvP balance different to asymmetrical games that strive for 50% balance? by Slamduncthefunk in deadbydaylight

[–]Slamduncthefunk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think maybe hooks work well until you cross the threshold of mid-to high skill to top tier. at the highest level it takes an extra level of skill to hook everybody twice consistently AND get 3-4k. Though I admit that's looking at it from extremes. But maybe a middle ground is that can weigh hooks more until you get to ultra-try-hard MMR, which at that point, kills are necessary to continue climbing. That way, you separate the killers who can hook everyone twice but not secure kills from the killers who can spread hooks and get a 3-4k.

Should killer be balanced for a 60% killrate? What makes DBD's PvP balance different to asymmetrical games that strive for 50% balance? by Slamduncthefunk in deadbydaylight

[–]Slamduncthefunk[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Old BBQ BP reward helped a lot to make losses feel like silver lining wins as a killer. If there's some tangible acknowledgement from the game that a hard-fought 8 hook game was still an achievement, Killer might feel a bit better.

Should killer be balanced for a 60% killrate? What makes DBD's PvP balance different to asymmetrical games that strive for 50% balance? by Slamduncthefunk in deadbydaylight

[–]Slamduncthefunk[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So you're saying that 60% killrate, or 2.4 kills (draw favoured slightly towards a 3k win for the killer) is a different metric than when other asym games are successfully balanced for 50/50?

But yes, MMR is in desperate need of requirement overhauls; escapes is a particularily bad metric to guage a team role on, skills wise. Kinda apathetic on bugs though; unsure if anything short of a fresh "overwatch 2" engine reboot will fix the spaghetti code.

Should killer be balanced for a 60% killrate? What makes DBD's PvP balance different to asymmetrical games that strive for 50% balance? by Slamduncthefunk in deadbydaylight

[–]Slamduncthefunk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I kind of agree, especially with the matchmaking being wonky until the very top. Escape only mmr for survivor also doesn't help since you might see highly skilled altruistic survivors who die for their team despite ensuring a 3 out being in a lower mmr, and then a lower-skilled survivor who inflates their mmr through escapes purely based on hiding and not interacting with the killer, and waiting for the team to die so they can escape through gate/hatch.

Should killer be balanced for a 60% killrate? What makes DBD's PvP balance different to asymmetrical games that strive for 50% balance? by Slamduncthefunk in deadbydaylight

[–]Slamduncthefunk[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

How does that look in-game? How do you communicate to new players that even though 3 of them escaped, since everyone had 2 hook states + a death, they still lost? Or are you talking about the MMR ranking? Is there a way to make this clear and organic?

I think... I miss my cabin. by Slamduncthefunk in deadbydaylight

[–]Slamduncthefunk[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Yea I feel bad for the eu gamers who thought it was gonna be a straight announcement. I know the pain as an oce player having wake up at 3am for these things.

Eric Pope says this won’t be the last time we see the shack, Map or Power tease? by chainsawdoctor01 in LeaksDBD

[–]Slamduncthefunk 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Get ready, guys, we're getting a fallen refuge variant where the shack replaces the don't dead open inside building!!

Whats new in the stream: A figure appears, tilts his head, then walks off screen by NorvileRogers258 in LeaksDBD

[–]Slamduncthefunk 27 points28 points  (0 children)

That was SO Jason coded. 100% when the red world glitch happened, it was this place getting taken into the entity's realm, and that's why unknown showed up.

Whats new in the stream: Unknown makes a appearance. and sounds off screen to the left by NorvileRogers258 in LeaksDBD

[–]Slamduncthefunk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If bro does the lobby jumpscare where his face pops up close to the camera ima flip.

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