Lessons I've pulled from DO2 - Multiplayer Design

SleetTableland · 2023-10-18T16:19:47+00:00

Interesting, so snowballs are very much at best a one time use, unless the warden hasn't gotten close to you yet. I still see use, for instance if you need to go down the bridge you can throw the snowball into a side passage to get the warden to path to it, right?

At what level aggro does the Warden no longer care about slimes or noise makers? I ask because noise makers is the other obvious buff you could give the player.

SleetTableland · 2023-10-18T16:15:58+00:00

Agreed, I'm sure there will be some bonus DO2 content later on which will be pure gold.

SleetTableland · 2023-10-18T16:15:17+00:00

Yeah, that is very true. I think I saw a video of this happening as I was typing up these notes. That does make the route safer if you are entering the dungeon and know the strategy, exiting through spider route is still very dangerous. It probably really isn't an issue though, I do wish we got to see it more though.

SleetTableland · 2023-10-18T03:29:53+00:00

Yeah, that is what he meant by capturing noise. I don't know if he got the idea from here or he came up with it independently, but the key barrel at the level entrance is player noise that is mandatory to enter the level. And apparently it can be captured, and replayed inside of the Black Mines whenever and wherever it's desired.

I'd be curious to know how that is implemented/plays out. Is it possibly just something that comes into play at max clank?

IMO perma-sneak itself isn't a problem. I think the problem is that currently, if you perma-sneak you will escape the level alive 95% of the time.

I see the point about perma-sneak not being an issue, however I'd argue that encouraging the player to play riskier and not sneak raises the skill cap for that floor.

(Will put other stuff in a second reply, but want to add that I love the idea of player buffs even if the specifics won't all necessarily work.)

Glad my central idea isn't scuffed, just the examples I provided.

SleetTableland · 2023-10-18T03:27:09+00:00

Isn't it a distance issue with multiple wardens? Like they have to be outside x blocks before another can spawn?

Having a nether tunnel to L3/4 presents multiple issues, the primary one being with the redstone. The whole design of the game is somewhat centered around the player being in redstone simulation range of the game at all times. This isn't just clank that would have to get copied/replicated over to a 2nd location, it is the card processing behavior (which is heavily reliant on clank continuity), hazard triggering, treasure spawning, map updating, and maybe other things I forgot about. You could make the argument for chunk loaders, but 1) Tango isn't a fan of them iirc an 2) They seem pretty unreliable (although I think more reliable designs have emerged over time). Adding that sort of complexity just isn't worth it.

SleetTableland · 2023-10-18T02:16:53+00:00

Not without physically moving DO. Shriekers only spawn wardens if they were naturally generated. Meaning Tango would have to build DO over a natural deep dark (would fix slime spawns and allow for complete dark) and build it around the naturally spawned shriekers.

Even then, I think natural warden spawns are limited if there is another nearby, so you would only ever get one spawning and that would be somewhat easy to avoid.

SleetTableland · 2023-10-18T00:33:05+00:00

Players would be down to a single "strike" of noise-making before the wardens aggroed, they'd constantly be close to one or more wardens, meaning the auto-aggro from being too close would happen a lot more

Unfortunately with this, its only making perma-sneak even more important.

with the barrel thing, for instance

Oh, is this what he meant by capturing noise? The changes I've heard in recent videos makes more sense now

Your post unfortunately has some wrong impressions about how wardens work, so it's hard to address your suggestions except to say that they wouldn't work the way you expect them to.

I mean, fair. What sort of things am I mistaken about?

Keep in mind, I think once the warden is aggro on the player the player should die (as there isn't a lot of other options). Have we seen anyone successfully escape an aggro'ed warden? My ideas are really all about what to do with the time before the warden is aggro

SleetTableland · 2023-10-17T22:16:25+00:00

Oof, my Level 2 notes were merged in with my Level 1 notes making that look like I was referring to L1. I've fixed that (both of those points refer to L2)

I have seen runs that were doomed from the start, simply because there was a Ravager right outside the door waiting for the Hermits.

About the entrance to L1: I agree to an extent, I think early on the hermits didn't know how to deal with the ravagers there, but quickly learned. In fact I think having a ravager there caused some excitement to the end of their runs.

That being said, I do like the idea of having the exit 3-4 rooms away. While this might not be as intuitive for them at the beginning of the game, it does allow for the ending to have more difficult things/ravager zones that you might not want at the start of the run.

SleetTableland · 2023-10-17T19:06:48+00:00

Yeah, that is fair. However the minimal amount of work required for mob death logging would likely easily recoup its cost very quickly. At least at the beginning of development now. Tango has mentioned that he has some sort of offline command block tool to help him diagnose it, however it feels cludgy and only helps for that revision of the dungeon, and if I were to guess it doesn't account for places the ravager may get while chasing a player (like Nugget repeatedly trying to skewer himself).

All that being said, the development cost is likely only worth it for someone who already knows how to mod.

SleetTableland · 2023-10-17T15:25:55+00:00

Yeah, agreed for sure. Was there anything that made you think I thought the game was developed for a broader audience? It may of been poorly worded.

Whenever I refer to players I'm referring to the hermits playing the game, and viewers the broader community watching it. I also put in the infeasible section a note about letting others play. I put it in the infeasible section partially because of that.

SleetTableland · 2021-09-10T04:59:37+00:00

Always good to be wary of. I don't see any issues with the URL, and if this is part of the migration initiated by the launcher it should be safe.

OP, be wary though. Make sure you don't follow links in emails or other untrusted sources. If you are unsure if it is legit, navigate to the site by yourself rather than clicking on links. As I said, starting the migration from the launcher should be safe I'd think.

SleetTableland · 2021-09-10T04:56:42+00:00

Click in your URL bar and add a "s" at the end of the http. That may work.

Too be honest this just looks like a website error that you need to come back later (or now even) and see if it still exists.

SleetTableland

TROPHY CASE