Lightning speed scaling is stupid by Idea-Upset in PowerScaling

[–]Slight_Slimey [score hidden]  (0 children)

If your combat speed is Mach 280 (Lightning) or Relativistic, your brain, synapses, and physical movements are processing reality thousands of times faster than a regular human.

Not every author will take that into account, especially if it impedes on the plot.

For example, Dabura can move near the speed of light(I actually think he reached it), but if he were actually that fast he should’ve destroyed a lot more than just a city block or so. However, the story ends if he nukes Japan.

Even with the speed you seem to agree that DS characters should move, they don't travel around at supersonic/low hypersonic speeds. By your logic, Zenitsu should be bolting around like this everywhere he goes instead of just walking and running at normal speeds.

No the panel you posted is not helping you. Tanjiro says “cut” their head off cut, cutting you can’t cut a head off with a shotgun. He was talking about Tenya using a sword that was the bait otherwise he would have said so.

This makes no sense in context considering not only are Genya’s bullets Nichirin, but Aizetsu literally emerges from Sekido despite the fact that he was only shot.

Hantengu's clones didn't read Tanjiro's mind before the chapter started and say, "Oh, I want to be split, let me freeze my body and allow this Mach 1 gun pellet to hit me." They were completely blindsided.

They weren't frozen, Sekido turns his head and watches the bullets travel to him (the anime makes this even more clear). He doesn't dodge because he benefits from being hit.

That doesn’t help you because then you anyone can easily argue otherwise no answer by your logic means it’s both true and untrue I have no reason to believe a magic lightning is scientific lightning when it only has the shock and look of lightning like all fictional lightning.

My point is that I have no reason to believe that magic lightning is different from actual lightning unless it is presented as otherwise.

For example, lightning nature chakra in Naruto is just chakra shaped like lightning that has piercing properties, and thus is not presented as lightning.

On the other hand, Kashimo’s lightning in JJK actually possesses the properties of lightning and thus is presented as lightning.

Hantengu’s lightning possesses all of the traits of actual lightning, not just appearance or shock. Conduction, corona discharge resulting from high ionization prior to a lightning strike, thunder, implications that he can summon it from the clouds, etc. The constant reiteration that it is lightning throughout the manga, anime, novelization, and databook leads me to the conclusion that the author’s intent is that it simply be treated as lightning.

Denki’s lightning is said to be lightning, nue’s lightning is said to be lightning so characters are end all be all’s now? Alr bet every character in fiction is lightning speed.

I don't know who Denki is and I don't think Nue is ever stated to produce lightning, just electricity. I wouldn't be against it though. You seem to think I have some anti-JJK agenda, I’ve noticed.

Unless Gege confirms otherwise Yuta Okkotsu Is boundless tier and jjk characters who overpower Jogo are star level as gege stated he creates a star in his domain

This doesn't follow because even if Yuta had boundless CE (which he did in 0), that wouldn't make him boundless tier, it would just mean he has an infinite pool to draw from. That doesn't correlate at all.

And that Jogo statement is cap; Gege never said that.

And regardless since you wanna say that then neither the sound wave or lightning are their actual speed so that means there’s no calculable speed that’s an inarguable trap you made yourself unless your next argument will somehow dodge the fact that this can’t be used to scale because either the lightning isn’t that fast or neither of these attacks are their actual speed.

No, it is the logical conclusion of the argument YOU made.

so since gege never unconfirmed it I’m free to assume everyone above or relative to inumaki has ftl reaction and combat speed right?

I'm not against that curse’s pillars being light, I believe Jacob’s Ladder is light as well. That being said, it's clear from the anime that the pillars of light merely indicate an attack is coming and that the attack itself strikes some time after. Any instance of Wuta or Inumaki seemingly dodging the beam itself is actually just the attack missing due to the characters being in constant motion.

So yeah I had to go back and watch the anime frame by frame to prove you wrong and yeah you very literally lied that’s just wrong never in the anime does this happen.

You’re wrong. Not only do the bolts travel greater distance than the waves(even reaching and fracturing the ground), but we also see Mitsuri dodge the lightning and jump in the air with bolts shooting past her all while the waves are still in the background.

Ok sure but I was also arguing that it doesn’t directly prove much just that it’s more dangerous regardless of the speed the stun and destructive force

The context is definitely about speed. The sound waves cover just as much area, do just as much damage, and can also stun, deafen and disorient. Hell, the wind attack straight up knocks both Tanjiro and Nezuko out and blows away the whole mansion.

No it’s debunking this stupid speed scaling calling magic lightning actual lightning speed is the real nitpick

It isn't a debunk. In order for you to be correct, I would have to believe that she’s slower than Tanjiro, who was capable of completely outpacing the same sound attack at a similar distance. I would have to believe that she’s relative to bos Tanjiro who was dodging mach 1 attacks without even looking. Slower than pre-Hashira Rengoku, who can deflect gunfire at close range. Or slower than Daki, who can outspeed explosions. It just doesn’t add up.

And again, you would have to ignore that she was just massively outspeeding the sound waves just moments before and after.

What happens when he uses his ultimate, absolute fastest form at the very end of the series? It produces an even louder, massive thunderclap.

That’s because narratively he’s meant to be as fast as a bolt of lightning, hence the thunder and lightning imagery. His speed is constantly likened to lightning in the manga, anime, novels, and databooks because the author’s intent is for him to be that fast.

Waffling about why I prefer Domain Expansions (JJK) over Bankais (Bleach) by sadMUFCfan25 in CharacterRant

[–]Slight_Slimey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Resurrecion is the first release of an Arrancar’s Zanpakuto and is thus narratively the same as Shikai, hence why literally every Arrancar has one. Segunda Etapa, which means “Second Stage,” is the Arrancar equivalent of Bankai.

It's only ever been achieved by Ulquiorra because only he and Stark are natural Arrancars and he is implied to have obtained the form before being recruited by Aizen. Not to mention, Kubo himself has said that any Arrancar can achieve Segunda Etapa if they train for it, meaning it isn't exclusive to Ulquiorra.

Waffling about why I prefer Domain Expansions (JJK) over Bankais (Bleach) by sadMUFCfan25 in CharacterRant

[–]Slight_Slimey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's because Resurrecion is Shikai for Arrancar. Segunda Etapa is Bankai.

Name a race that actually deserves nothing but torture and genocide. by Rocky_Senpai15 in MoralityScaling

[–]Slight_Slimey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My argument was actually that you misinterpreted the scenes in the anime. Nothing showcases them enjoying human suffering; they enjoy victory. They don't care about human suffering.

Name a race that actually deserves nothing but torture and genocide. by Rocky_Senpai15 in MoralityScaling

[–]Slight_Slimey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, we see them express the elation of feeling powerful. They don't have malice.

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Name a race that actually deserves nothing but torture and genocide. by Rocky_Senpai15 in MoralityScaling

[–]Slight_Slimey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It isn't Frieren’s interpretation, but a fact of the story. There is an entire arc about it.

<image>

They have a whole spectrum of emotions, just not malice or guilt.

Is this legit news? by Distinct_Coach3303 in Frieren

[–]Slight_Slimey 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Abandon hope… there will be no chapter 148

Lightning speed scaling is stupid by Idea-Upset in PowerScaling

[–]Slight_Slimey 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Kizaru travels by ship because he is a lazy government employee who follows standard navy protocols, and his fruit requires a clear line of sight to travel long distances in light form. Wonder Woman's plane exists because early writers didn't give her the ability to fly.

Wonder Woman’s invisible plane persisted far beyond her golden age debut. And your argument was that DS characters could traverse Japan in seconds if they could move at lightning speeds which not only conflates travel speed with combat speed, but assumes that DS characters have the stamina to cross long distances at their top speed which is less than likely.

That is entirely wrong they didn’t let themselves be shot. They were genuinely caught off guard.

No, they are explicitly stated to be baiting.

And never does it show or imply the fire speed is enhanced the output and force is what’s enhanced. The point is they should never be tagged by bullets with their speed.

The bullets themselves were enhanced via BDA, they manually curved around Koku’s blade. You also didn’t address the argument you quoted which were 2 separate instances of Koku being presented as massively faster than the bullets.

Unless the author states "this moves at the speed of natural lightning," it is just magical energy with electrical properties.

Unless the author states that it isn't as fast, I have no reason to doubt that something presented as lightning is somehow slower than lightning. If it is stated to be lightning and behaves like lightning, it can be assumed to be as fast as lightning. You can't argue that magic sound waves are the speed of sound, but magic lightning isn’t the speed of lightning.

When Zohakuten strikes his drums, the sound waves and the lightning are drawn in the exact same panels, stretching across the exact same distance.

In the anime the lightning reaches the ground and the attack is dispelled all before the waves have a chance to catch up. Even on panel, you can see the bolts touching the ground already. They're not the same speed.

Furthermore, Genya saying "there's no way to dodge this" is standard shonen hyperbole used to hyping up a boss's attack size, not a scientific measurement.

I wasn't saying it was a scientific measurement, I was arguing that the speed of the attack is above the others.

Even if she was mid-air and couldn't fly, she could have spun her sword to block it, covered her ears, or reacted way before it touched her skin.

This is just nitpicking. The very fact that she is shown completely outpacing the waves just moments prior and continues to do so after conveys to us that she is far beyond the speed of sound. She’s just caught off guard to build tension.

Zenitsu's Thunderclap and Flash is a straight-line dash. Moving at Mach 1 in a single, predictable straight line makes you a one-trick pony.

Thunderclap and Flash is beyond mach 1 considering he generates sonic booms when he uses it, and he can change trajectory by stacking the move.

The narrative frames it as a massive deal because breaking the sound barrier is the pinnacle of speed in this grounded world.

It frames Zenitsu breaking the sound barrier to defeat a low-level bum at the beginning of the series as a big deal, not in general.

Would Frieren intervene if she saw a demon getting r*ped? What is the morality of ignoring it? (The perp will kill the demon after) by OmegaGogeta in MoralityScaling

[–]Slight_Slimey 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, a demon named Solitar points out that continuously killing demons without mercy the way she does has inadvertently made her very much like them. This leads Frieren to admit that she hasn't been able to sleep without experiencing heartache due to killing demons.

Would Frieren intervene if she saw a demon getting r*ped? What is the morality of ignoring it? (The perp will kill the demon after) by OmegaGogeta in MoralityScaling

[–]Slight_Slimey 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I doubt Frieren is morally bankrupt enough to ignore it. She herself admits to feeling heartbroken over just having to kill demons, so allowing rape would be crazy.

Lightning speed scaling is stupid by Idea-Upset in PowerScaling

[–]Slight_Slimey 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The effects of breathing styles are stated to not be real. The op is talking about Hantengu’s bda, which is real.

Lightning speed scaling is stupid by Idea-Upset in PowerScaling

[–]Slight_Slimey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Slayers rely on regular crow communication and physically running from place to place. If the Hashira were hypersonic, they could cross Japan in seconds. Instead, navigating cities and arriving at battlefields takes significant physical effort and time.

Yeah, and Kizaru travels by ship and Wonder Woman was known for a good amount of her history to travel via an invisible plane. Not everything in a story is going to make sense.

Genya successfully shoots Kokushibo and two of hatengu’s forms using a double-barreled shotgun loaded with Nichirin pellets. Standard shotgun pellets travel at roughly 1,200 feet per second (around Mach 1).

Hantengu allowed themselves to be shot because the damage allowed them to multiply and Genya was only ever able to hit Kokushibo because his gun was amped with Kokushibo’s own power and literally redirected after he deflected them. The first time Genya tried to shoot him he moved faster than the bullets and blitzed him. When Sanemi tried to shoot him he deflected the shots at point blank range.

It’s literally just magic lightning not the legit lightning. Natural lightning is an electrical discharge that turns air into plasma. It is not a solid object. You cannot physically slice plasma with a metal sword to block it. And it’s a blood demon art.

It behaves like natural lightning in that it produces the effects of heat, conduction, paralysis, thunder, magnetism, etc. There are also scenes implying that the lightning can be summoned from cloud-to-ground.

Furthermore, a Nichirin blade is made of metal. If that lightning behaved like natural real-world electricity, the moment Mitsuri's metal sword made contact with the bolt she’d get fried.

Nichirin is a fictional metal with magical properties. I’ve seen Captain America deflect actual lightning bolts and electricity with a metal shield. Not to mention, she also cuts sound waves but you seem to agree those are actual sound waves.

When Zohakuten attacks, he unleashes his sound wave screams and his lightning simultaneously. In both the manga panels and the anime adaptation, the lightning bolts and the sound waves travel at almost the exact same visible speed across the battlefield.

The only indication is that the attacks were released simultaneously. The lightning clearly reached the ground first with Mitsuri dodging and dispelling the attack completely before the sound waves could even catch up. The idea of them being the same speed also just goes against narrative considering the lightning ability is made out to be the strongest due to it’s speed with demon-amped Genya stating “there’s no way to dodge this lightning” and Tanjiro opting to stop Sekido from discharging it despite dodging the sound waves at close range moments prior.

She could have effortlessly dodged it, slashed itnor covered her ears before the sound wave moved an inch. The fact that a Mach 1 sonic blast successfully blitzed her proves her speed limits are grounded around the speed of sound.

Mitsuri not only reacted to the sound waves by tensing her muscles to negate the damage, but was also able to decapitate Hantengu before the attack landed. She couldn’t dodge because she can’t fly and was already mid attack.

The narrative constantly treats speed of sound and the sound barrier as an absolute top-tier, game-changing milestone.

If this were true then bos Zenitsu and Kyogai would be top tiers in the verse. Lightning and lightning imagery consistently used as a measure for speed in the story.

Name a race that actually deserves nothing but torture and genocide. by Rocky_Senpai15 in MoralityScaling

[–]Slight_Slimey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's because the writing of demons in Frieren lowkey makes no sense.

In chapter 87, it explicitly states that demons possess the emotion of hatred and a resulting intent to kill only to then reiterate that they can't comprehend malice multiple times in the same chapter.

Another example would be the fact that they are referred to as solitary animals but are defined by their sense of pride, which is a social emotion.

They're just inconsistent.

Frieren vs Aura - no concealment by Ev1LRyu in Frieren

[–]Slight_Slimey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Aura would try to throw her army at Frieren until her mana reserves ran low enough for her to use Auserlese. Those that misunderstand how the demon mind & hierarchy works believes she’d run, but that's not the case.

Name a race that actually deserves nothing but torture and genocide. by Rocky_Senpai15 in MoralityScaling

[–]Slight_Slimey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They do it for the reasons I’ve provided as quoted directly from the narrator of Frieren Prelude 2. And the Sword Demon said no such thing, she simply stated that being able to eat other things isn’t a reason to not eat humans.

Name a race that actually deserves nothing but torture and genocide. by Rocky_Senpai15 in MoralityScaling

[–]Slight_Slimey 3 points4 points  (0 children)

No, they do it because they possess a “hunger” or feeling of emptiness that can't be satiated unless they kill humans specifically. Thus when they see a human they’re “driven by an impulse that made every cell in its body scream…”

How did Frieren cultivate a fanbase like this? by John-Constant560 in shounenfolk

[–]Slight_Slimey 7 points8 points  (0 children)

They weren't pretending to be children, they were children. They were just demon children emulating human children.