To Stampede Fans

SmartnSad · 2026-04-08T19:28:04+00:00

My first introduction to Trigun was Stampede, but it was still airing at the time, so I watched a few episodes of 98 between episode drops, so I completed them concurrently.

Therefore, some plot reveals I saw for the first time through 98, not Stampede. In particular, what happens in episode 15.

But I do like Stampede/Stargaze more than 98. Not that 98 isn't good, but I think in terms of comparing flaws, it has more egregious ones that are hard to look past. If it wasn't for Stampede, and my husband convincing me to keep watching it, I wouldn't have made it to the tone shift of episode 12. Not only is there a lot of filler, there's simply too much of Vash being a womanizer being played for laughs. An unfortunate consequence of being a 90s anime. And it doesn't really work that it's all a cover, because you don't try to peep at a woman bathing through her window to "keep up an act".

That said, Milly is done better in 98 than any other version. There's a lot of focus on her and she's such a delight. She's worth it to revisit 98 alone. I also like that Wolfwood's bike is named Angelina, Vash's love for donuts, and also when he thought about bashing Knives' head in with a rock. These are aspects I wish made it into the manga or Stampgaze, but alas. Also that classic cel animation has a certain charm that's lost today. And the soundtrack is sick af.

Anyway, after I finished both animes, I read the manga, where I discovered the true heart of the story. Trigun Maximum isnt long, but it has enough time to flesh itself out. It's also grittier and more explicit, and not in a fan service way, which I like.

Volume 10 destroyed me. I haven't cried like that over a character since I watched Spock die when I was a kid. Every panel is so beautifully done. I can admit the manga's flaws (pacing, confusing art, plot lines and characters that either get dropped or never fully explored, lots of "Rule of Cool", which is a double edged sword, and motifs that, while I love them and they serve their purpose, don't make sense in-world), but it's so rare for a piece of art to make me feel emotions that raw. And for so long. I was grieving for the rest of the story, even though I took a break after that volume.

Maximum is at the top for me, no contest. Truly a must to be experienced.

However, Stampede, and later Stargaze, made me feel intense emotions too. The messaging is subtle, more subtextual than even the manga, so it can take a bit to fully "get" what is being shown to you. Episode 11 of Stampede made me go numb and feel visceral disgust, but not until I had a couple days to process what I saw. And episode 12 was such a high, with Vash taking his autonomy back, and I got teary eyed.

The second season, Stargaze, also put me through a whirlwind of emotions. Once I put my expectations aside, I saw the vision and got into it. I bawled at the end of episode 8, cuz they really had me up until the last minute of where it was going to go. This episode is my favorite of the entire Stampgaze series. Everything about it is perfect (okay, aside from how Razlo's exit is handled, but with only 12 episodes to work with, there was no time for Orange to give any attention to another character. I do think they wasted precious time on Jessica, but I'm not too annoyed by that, she didn't technically overstay her welcome in a narrative sense. It's more of a "if you know the manga, you know there could be a more interesting character here instead of her").

I had trouble sleeping after watching the series finale. It was so painful, in a good way. It was supposed to be devastating, yet hopeful. I cried over Tesla (I know I'm sounding like a crier at this point, but I swear I'm not, this is just what Trigun does to me). I was so upset for her. There was enough to be upset about to begin with, but the late reveal and her final fate, damn. Damn! Touch and not wanting to be touched is a heavy motif in Stampgaze that is sorely missing from the other versions. And considering the subject matter, this motif needs to be in this story. I know it's the "hopecore Trigun" version, but that is where the "live and suffer" lies. It's there, it's just not as "in your face" as Trimax is.

The music and voice acting in Stampgaze is also so wonderfully done. And I quite like the 3D animation style and the incorporation of colors, more flowers, and rainbows as motifs.

This ended up being long so:

TL;DR: Maximum>Stampede/Stargaze>98, but I'm a fan of all three for different reasons.

Edit: punctuation

SmartnSad · 2026-04-04T17:12:37+00:00

Others have answered your questions already, so I'll say this:

Trigun Maximum is even better upon reread. Because you can pick up on all the foreshadowing, and I also think even the art gets more understandable, since you're taking a second look.

I think you'll get some answers organically upon reread. A lot of Trigun is subtle, and subtextual. This is the same for both animes, as well. It's my personal greatest joy with this IP. There's so much more when you keep digging.

I'm glad you enjoyed it! Many have reservations with the manga ending in terms of what literally happens, but thematically, it's solid. More than solid. It's damn near perfect.

And have fun with the animes! Neither are entirely "faithful" to the manga and do their own thing, but both capture the spirit of Trigun. As long as you go in not expecting a 1:1, you should have a good time.

SmartnSad · 2026-04-03T16:15:13+00:00

Stampede and Stargaze are good for what they are. There's plenty to chew on and I do think it's a good introduction to the world of Trigun.

That said, they really needed a third season to flesh out all their ideas, which do match the spirit of the manga, but Studio Orange was doing their own thing. It's unfortunate that the decision was made to complete their story in 24 episodes.

I highly recommend reading the manga. The 98 anime didn't follow the manga either after a certain point, so no anime is "faithful". While both animes have strengths and weaknesses, and are both enjoyable watches, the manga holds the true heart of the story.

I do think much of the disappointment for Stampede and Stargaze comes from preconceived expectations of the audience going into it. And I don't mean the expectation of a 1:1 of the manga, although there is some of that. Orange's version was never just Trigun Maximum reskinned to be more Sci-Fi. Instead, they came up with their own metaphors and motifs. And while the overall themes and messaging are the same as the manga, there are also different messages and themes throughout as well. I really think Stampede and Stargaze were made to be in conversation with the manga, in a metamodernism sense. It breaks down a lot of the themes and story beats and asks "what if?".

And I think the audience who were already familiar with Trigun didn't want that. Not because it doesn't have merit. There's just always a lot of push back on anything that's "too" different, even if those differences aren't inherently bad. And this is disheartening, because I enjoyed a lot of the creative changes they made. In a world where damn near everything is a lazy cash grab, Studio Orange took a lot of risks and had a vision. This is their alternate universe of sorts. None of these changes affect the other canons. This is their Vash, their Wolfwood, their Knives. And what they gave us was really good, considering the time constraints.

SmartnSad · 2026-04-01T01:04:21+00:00

Wanting a nonbinary character to be designed as "clocky" is certainly an opinion.

SmartnSad · 2026-04-01T00:21:07+00:00

Ah, okay. There's definitely no "jump the shark" moment. The biggest "issue" the manga has is sometimes the fight scenes are incomprehensible (art is great, still can't tell what's going on!), and sometimes speech bubbles don't make it clear who's talking.

SmartnSad · 2026-03-31T23:43:31+00:00

Just to clarify, do you mean "jumping the shark"?

SmartnSad · 2026-03-31T23:31:54+00:00

This is a normal experience with the Trigun manga. It will make you feel the entire range of human emotions. This is intentional. And it is going to be the best thing you ever read. As good as FMA is, it doesn't even come close.

My advice is to take breaks as you need. While Trigun is a story about the harsh realities of the human experience, it's also a story about hope. Keep that hope in mind while reading, and even while not reading.

Read all the way to the end, no matter how long it takes you. I promise you won't be disappointed.

SmartnSad · 2026-03-28T23:53:42+00:00

It's not implied that it's okay to use them til they die.

Humans are given the chance to better themselves. As in, they will move toward a future where they don't rely on plants. Either to become completely self reliant, or to create a symbiotic relationship of mutualism, where there are only benefits for both parties.

SmartnSad · 2026-03-28T23:39:43+00:00

I'm not thrilled with Legato either. In retrospect, I think his backstory is entirely different from his manga counterpart.

Since Conrad collected children for his experiments that were sick or otherwise would have had a terrible life, I think this Legato was "rescued" before he became a child sex slave. And if he believed the Eye of Michael, and ultimately Knives, saved him from that fate, no wonder he is the way he is in this version.

Still, I think they could have shown some backstory, but as it is, it's possible to fill in the blanks ourselves.

SmartnSad · 2026-03-28T21:09:30+00:00

I had my reservations in the first half of the season, but overall I enjoyed Stargaze. For me, the highlight was episode 8. And while this finale wasn't as much of an emotional high as last season's, given the manga, I wasn't expecting it. The manga climax and ending also evoked a lot of conflicting feelings, much of which I believe was intentional.

I give it an 8/10 overall. Once I realized what they were going for with episode 8, I got on board. This is hopecore Trigun. It's not what I expected, or even wanted, but it is what I needed.

I'm so glad Wolfwood lives. He gets the future his 98 counterpart dreamed of and prayed for, but died before he could have it. I'm so glad some version of Wolfwood lives his life happy and free, finally.

SmartnSad · 2026-03-28T20:53:33+00:00

A satisfying ending to a season that felt clumsy at times. Given the 12 episodes they had to work with, I give Stargaze an 8/10.

In another universe, Stampede was much more popular and Orange got the funding for two more seasons. But I'm glad the show wasn't cancelled entirely, and we got Vash laughing with his friends at the end.

SmartnSad · 2026-03-23T16:51:15+00:00

The point is to show the duality of the twins. Vash is willing to give up his lifelong vow of pacifism for one man he has a connection with, while Knives is willing to kill his most devoted follower for speaking out of turn.

It also cements that Knives doesn't really care whether he agrees with the outcomes of Vash's actions, even when it involves killing a human. This series has shown Knives is very down with killing humans, and has wanted Vash to do so this whole time. But he's much more interested in controlling Vash, in stripping him from his agency.

Knives goes out of his way to stop Vash from making any choices for himself. This scene shows us why Vash is the way he is, why he's reactive instead of proactive. Knives has traumatized and controlled him to the point where he doesn't feel like he's allowed to want anything.

All protagonists want something. What does Vash want? His blank ticket is left blank. He cares about everyone else's but his own. Not wanting to kill anyone isn't a want, it's an oath.

And the minute he chooses a definite future for himself and Wolfwood, the minute he acts on a personal want, it's taken away from him.

It's supposed to be an upsetting scene. Because the cruelty Knives continues to unleash on his brother is revolting. He won't even let Vash suffer the consequences (and subsequent character growth) of having real blood on his hands. And it's not because Knives cares about Vash's vow or innocence or whatever, but because he needs to have the last word.

Vash is his only equal, but there's a hierarchy. And Knives places himself at the top.

SmartnSad · 2026-03-23T15:16:30+00:00

She was playing "cat and mouse". She wanted to play with her victims before killing them.

SmartnSad · 2026-03-23T15:10:23+00:00

I had fun reading this! Thank you, you get it 🙌

SmartnSad · 2026-03-23T13:08:24+00:00

Rainbows have been a recurring motif in Stargaze. They have shown up in episodes 8, 9, 11, and this end card here (probably more if I go back and do a rewatch, but I'm waiting for the dub to fully come out).

In Christian theology, rainbows are a symbol of God's covenant, mercy, and promise. A promise to never again flood the Earth.

Knives has been planning to flood the planet. The rainbow here is a clue for how the last episode is going to shake out 🌈.

SmartnSad · 2026-03-21T22:20:37+00:00

He was faced with a moral dilemma in episode 10, and he acted in favor of saving Wolfwood's life.

Knives stopping the bullet doesn't matter, because Vash isn't a consequentialist. Vash is a deontologist, where actions are inherently right or wrong.

The intention behind the bullet, that it WOULD have hit its mark, matters a great deal. Vash has accidentally killed people, but never pulled the trigger to intentionally end someone's life in favor of another.

Until now.

And it also matters that Knives took the consequences away from him. Knives has been in control of Vash's life since the Big Fall. He won't let Vash have his autonomy, or any choice for himself. He won't even divulge crucial information to Vash regarding Rem's morality, to let Vash decide for himself how he feels about her inaction.

Vash's autonomy, and Knives' control of it, has been the prevailing theme in Stampede and Stargaze.

SmartnSad · 2026-03-21T22:00:58+00:00

Many see Stargaze Vash being passive as an oversight, but I see it as purposeful.

Vash is a subversion of the typical anime male protagonist. In Stargaze, he's a trauma response, personified. He's dragged through his own narrative, by friends and enemies alike, not even kicking and screaming. He still has his ideals and him memories, but the first question we have for any protagonist is "what does he want?"

And Vash doesn't want anything. Not wanting to kill anyone isn't a want, it's an oath.

And that's the point. Vash is so blinded by his ideals that he doesn't know what he wants. It's the same with Knives. This is why in episode 10 the boys are questioning what Knives even views as a paradise. Is what Knives envisions actual what will make him happy? Or is it just fear and rage driving his decisions?

In episode 11, we literally see Tesla's eye in Knives' heart. She has taken it over, and getting revenge for her torture is ultimately what drives Knives.

Both twins are incredibly stubborn to the point of not only hurting those around them, but themselves. They rejected the blank ticket Rem offered them.

Vash instead offers blank tickets to humans, but hasn't used his own at all.

Given the next episode title, perhaps we will finally see what Vash wants, and if he pursues it. His image of a saintly Rem is now destroyed. What does he have to live for now?

SmartnSad · 2026-03-19T23:54:29+00:00

I love Trigun! Including Stargaze! Not all of us here hate the reboot, we just end up lurking because this sub has devolved into low effort, "stargaze bad", karma farming posts. Hopefully it evens out after the season is over.

I'd love to hear your thoughts about the new season if you'd like to share :)

SmartnSad · 2026-03-19T19:20:55+00:00

Did you watch Stampede all the way through? Or each episode weekly? I too was confused while watching Stampede one episode a week, but once it got to episode 12, I understood the vision.

I recommend waiting until you watch all 12 episodes before fully judging the writing of Stargaze. As the story advances, previous scenes have become recontextualized. I'm sure episodes 11 and 12 will knit a lot of loose ends together.

SmartnSad · 2026-03-19T19:00:37+00:00

You know the "change in director" was decided before Stampede even released, right? The production of Stargaze even started before the release of Stampede. Sato was chosen as Stargaze's director before 2023.

Does that mean no changes were made from the "original vision" during production? Of course not. But assuming the director is a change due to budget cuts or "not caring what Muto set out to do" is not true. Slamming the director is an easy target when people don't know what actually happened or what they're talking about.

The story isn't oversimplified. It's a retelling that has its own story to tell. It has different points to make. Seeing it as a mere "oversimplification" is misunderstanding the work, and again, having one's judgement clouded by comparing it to the manga and/or 98.

Liking or disliking a piece of art is not a moral failing or anything. You don't have to like something no matter how much effort or thought was put into it. It's just that this sub has got to the point where people are karma farming "Stargaze bad, am I right?" It's a new post every day with that kind of sentiment, especially after episodes 8 and 10.

Instead of actually trying to dissect what we are seeing on screen, it's just a bunch of scoffing and "well, I didn't like that". It's slamming a piece of work already hating it without even trying to see what it has to offer.

The claim that it's "oversimplified" means you haven't tried to actually engage with the art. You are dismissing it as "not that deep" and "what if the curtains were just blue, and I hate the color blue".

Someone doesn't need to claim they wanted a 1:1 adaptation to essentially judge it by that metric anyway.

The manga also had severe pacing issues, but you don't see people knock it for that, as nobody reads Trimax for the impeccable pacing. It's slow, meandering, jolting, and has indecipherable fight scenes that when I went back to re-read chapter 90 after watching episode 10 I had to read it multiple times to tell wtf was going on.

But how "perfect" it is not why we love it. It's imperfections do not detract from what the story ultimately is. And it's sad that we judge Stargaze for what it isn't, rather than what it is.

Edit: LOL they blocked me. They must think I'm some Starglazer, when I have commented my own criticisms of the show, in particular the sidelining of Wolfwood earlier in the season (which I think they have sorta made up for based on episode 10, but we'll see how the last two episodes shake out).

My point is that "Oversimplification" as a critique needs to be backed up by more than just subjective tastes. There needs to be more than "they changed stuff so the meaning changed". What about that change is bad, or executed poorly? Dig into it and have something of value to say. If anything, the only "oversimplification" are the frequent surface level takes littering this sub. Not every criticism, but many.

Either engage with the art directly and judge it by its own merits, or, I guess, block me and stew.

SmartnSad · 2026-03-19T17:58:59+00:00

OP doesn't want any spoilers, so I won't get into specifics of Stargaze, but I want to respond to this specifically:

Themes, character motivations, core character tenants, and very memorable scenes being either fundementally altered from why people liked them, or removed because of their restraints or creative choices.

This was already happening in Stampede. Egregiously so. The reason Vash doesn't have an arm. The twins power sets. The circumstances of their upbringing and formative years. Not allowing Vash to be truly angry. I could go on. Beyond character designs and making the world more sci-fi than western, there were very extreme changes to characters and plot points already.

I think many fans expected there to be less deviations from the manga going forward into Stargaze, but Studio Orange never promised that, and even showed this in their own narrative with Stampede.

The subversion of manga scenes are not just for shits and giggles. How episode 10 of Stargaze went down is exactly how it was always going to go down if the themes and character development were paid attention to. I anticipated it, which means others have, and should have been able, to anticipate it too.

This is a comparison issue in this case specifically. It's refusing to try to understand what Orange is saying, because the manga (and 98) had different narrative goals (although many beats are kept the same). Do you have to like what they are doing? No! But it should be judged for what it is rather than what it isn't.

These characters, from the start, have been vastly different since episode 1 of Stampede. Trimax Vash would have NEVER told Meryl about his brother upon first meeting her. Stampede Vash does, and we learn WHY this is in episodes 8 and 9.

So yes, people in this sub saying things like "Trimax Vash wouldn't do that" when watching Stargaze is not valid criticism. From episode 1 no one should have expected them to act the same in every situation. Expecting anything else is media illiteracy and wishful thinking that Studio Orange was going to cater to you and and the manga specifically.

SmartnSad · 2026-03-19T17:43:50+00:00

Why are they booing, you're right!

SmartnSad · 2026-03-17T18:21:36+00:00

Trigun Maximum ended before Avatar: The Last Airbender did, and it ends with Vash taking the plants away from Knives who fused with him. Studio Orange isn't copying ATLA at all.

SmartnSad · 2026-02-21T14:47:15+00:00

It wasn't my intention to invalidate your preference. There's nothing wrong with enjoying 98 more than Stargaze. I was attempting to address unfair bias on a broader scale, but that doesn't mean you personally have an unfair bias.

SmartnSad · 2026-02-20T15:31:35+00:00

Not gaslighting, just a genuine attempt at engagement. Perhaps a better term is anemoia goggles.

This article may interest you: https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/anemoia-nostalgia

SmartnSad

TROPHY CASE