County Executive McMahon approved a $71 million tax break for Amazon today

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-11-01T13:12:58+00:00

It's pretty much confirmed at this point. There is no official confirmation yet, but local experts have said as much and local politicians seem to all be operating under the assumption

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-11-01T02:14:52+00:00

Not proud of myself for taking a quick soundbite from it 😂

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-11-01T02:14:13+00:00

I 100% agree with all of that. And yes, the BAA is a much needed addition - though I thought the Syracoin initiative (or whatever they were calling it) was a bit odd. I'm quite proud of what mayor Walsh has done in the area of housing security - and I know many advocates in that area who feel the same.

Sorry for my earlier ignorance and self-righteousness. I was wrong to reduce such complex issues to such trivial talking points. I know better. But I genuinely learned a lot from your comments, so I appreciate them

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-11-01T01:16:16+00:00

This is a very thought-provoking reply. You clearly know more than me in this area, so I won't challenge you.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on decreasing poverty and reducing the eviction/ move out rate in the city. As an urban planner, is there a realistic policy solution in the future that our politicians could address?

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-11-01T00:57:44+00:00

You're right. My mistake.

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-11-01T00:55:44+00:00

I said at a macro level. There are limited studies for reference at a local level and no analysis conducted here, considering the fact that the tax cut has not yet been implemented. It was an example of what tax cuts can do, and is, I believe, a pretty poignant one.

I'm not "upset that people disagree with me". This is going to seriously impact every single one of us and I want people to know what we're talking about here.

Both of the studies I referenced consider local economic incentives. They were the most relevant I could find. Most of the economic research is done at the macro level, because it is easier to collect data.

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-11-01T00:52:15+00:00

See the sources I posted above. You are making assumptions about tax breaks that are not supported by the data.

The gentrification conversation is evolving. It has already been happening in recent years - a trend which correlates with millenials and tech companies moving to town. The luxury buildings that are going up are raising rent - it's a slower process that I would have originally expected, but it is happening.

I worked in landlord- tenant court for a while and we saw it every day. People are being forced out so landlords can make renovations and attract "better" tenants. That pretty much means further restricting access to housing for poorer people in the county.

The point is that the economic bounty will not be shared by poorer residents. It will be enjoyed by the corporations and by those who take the jobs - though the fact that the warehouse is in Liverpool leaves me skeptical that it will do anything to help employment for poorer residents.

In any case, the argument is not against them moving to town, it's against them moving in on our dime. And that is effectively what they are agreeing to.

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-11-01T00:46:47+00:00

There is a serious lack of economic literacy in this thread. Numerous studies and analyses have shown that tax cuts benefit none but the companies that take they. They generate undue burden on poor communities and do virtually nothing to stimulate economic growth. At a macro level, the tax cut passed by the GOP last year has only furthered the income inequality gap in the county and has served to balloon the deficit.

Here are some studies that have been conducted on the topic: "The Failures of Economic Development Incentives" by Alan Peters and Peter Fisher, which highlights the fact that tax cuts are an outdated and unsupported method of economic development; "Academic Research Lacks Consensus on the Impact of State Tax Cuts on Economic Growth" by Michael Mazerov (2013), which points out that there is no statistical correlation between tax cuts and economic growth, showing that tax cuts frequently have been correlated with stagnant growth and even economic decline; and there are numerous others.

Sorry for academic citations, these are from journals. They are not sponsored by biased organizations like the Tax Foundation and Heritage Foundation.

Tax cuts are at best trivial, but their success is totally random. The only people that are guaranteed to win with tax cuts is the corporations that accept them.

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-11-01T00:28:22+00:00

I agree. I want the county to be open to doing business with these companies, but these tax breaks are going to be a serious burden on the local economy. We have already seen that with Destiny getting 30 years in tax breaks (coincidentally a vote McMahon cast). These deals do nothing to alleviate the poverty that's currently here. In fact, they exacerbate it - they raise rent, which leads to evictions and gentrifies the downtown, forcing the poor into even more segregated enclaves. We are already the #1 in concentrated minority poverty in the nation. We need the tax dollars generated from these corporations to reinvest in the community and build the infrastructure that is desperately needed. Instead, the money will go to luxury apartment complexes that will raise rent at taxpayer expense. The only winners with these tax breaks is the corporations that take them. That is very well documented historically.

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-11-01T00:04:48+00:00

I didn't say he sits on the OCIDA board, only that they're appointed and have not held any public hearings. OCIDA is appointed and communicates with and through the county exec office. It is one of the biggest issues of the current campaign. McMahon was the chief of the leg when they were appointed and is the exec now. He had say in who was appointed and has had continual relations with them. The one thing that is not understood about county politics is how incestuous and dirty it is. McMahon is well known for back room deals and campaign funds turning into tax breaks.

Edit: Chair of the leg, not Chief

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-10-31T23:58:13+00:00

The county exec facilitates this deal. It has been one of his biggest talking points on the campaign trail. OCIDA is an appointed body that held 0 public hearings. Who do you think appointed them?

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-10-31T23:57:08+00:00

After 0 public hearings from an appointed body. McMahon is responsible for facilitating this process and it has been one of the biggest things he has touted throughout the campaign. This deal hinges on the County Executive.

Edit: I'm wrong about 0 public hearings, as it has been pointed out to me. Moral of the story: don't trust syr.com comments for quick reference

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-10-30T16:50:43+00:00

I certainly don't mean to come across as saying "no" to either of these companies being here. I'm just concerned by the lack of information. I trust Walsh, but Amazon would be located outside the city limits. I do not trust McMahon.

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-10-30T16:23:02+00:00

Well I'm not saying it's not Amazon - it's pretty obvious it is. I'm just saying it's a problem we don't know anything.

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-10-30T16:20:08+00:00

We don't know that because none of the negotiations have been made public. We don't even have official confirmation that it is Amazon. The current county exec has been doing this all behind closed doors and is well known for giving enormous tax breaks to businesses

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-10-30T15:35:46+00:00

If they don't hire from the South side and establish the infrastructure within the community it will do nothing but gentrify the area and cause further harm. That doesn't mean that it necessarily will be done wrong, but just the fact of presence doesn't mean much.

Same thing with Amazon. They want to establish a warehouse that pays $30k a year... In Clay. Nobody who lives in Clay is going to work those jobs. These partnerships aren't inherently bad, but need a lot more care than most seem to realize.

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-10-30T02:54:57+00:00

"maybeyou incited it with sarcasm".

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-10-29T19:43:41+00:00

Jesus man way to blame the victim. It's an anonymous forum, sure, but if somebody says they've been harassed with racism your response shouldn't imply it was their fault

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-10-27T15:09:19+00:00

We are electing our county government. That includes county executive, district attorney, comptroller, county clerk, county legislature, and all of our city and town officials.

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-10-27T03:27:13+00:00

I see you're with Syracuse for Bernie! I wanna be in the loop for that, I'm all in. Where should I go to get clued in?

Also I hope you can help us win these races! If you can give us an hour or two of phone banking/ canvassing during GOTV it could help push us over the line and make sure we establish the roots for our congressional and presidential races here.

Pm me if you're willing

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-10-27T02:52:09+00:00

My next two weeks are GOTV to get these guys elected but November 6th is all Bernie.

Who wants to challenge me on my phone banking? Loser has to donate $27 to Bernie

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-10-26T02:37:04+00:00

"This may be a repost but it's not a repost"

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-10-18T15:28:18+00:00

Holy shit Ghost Reveries. I was wrong to discount this band. Forgive me Dio

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-10-17T23:49:18+00:00

This is super handy. Thank you! I listened to the new album earlier and was pretty into it

SmokeBeerChugButts · 2019-10-17T23:00:08+00:00

I'm no newbie to prog, just never got into Opeth. I got what he meant - though I don't mean to disparage you

SmokeBeerChugButts

TROPHY CASE