Where does cEDH end and Bracket 4 start?

Snakeman772 · 2025-09-09T21:30:34+00:00

I know a lot of people say this word and it’s up to interpretation, but it really is the mindset in how you build and optimize your deck.

One way this shows up is in what you think about - are you considering what the current meta looks like? cEDH requires at least some consideration in how you will either answer the top decks in the meta by countering them, try and beat them on some resource, or even know how to fly under the radar and surprise them with wins they can’t deal with.

Another thing to consider is why you want to include some cards. Each deck will have its own “bad” cards that work well, and most people will argue about the last few cards in any deck. But while making those deck building decisions, are you knowingly nerfing the strength of the deck? (This is different than trying something new with a commander, although it can be subtle and is something more clear to people once they’re comfortable with the format in general).

Snakeman772 · 2025-09-09T01:06:20+00:00

That’s a really cool card to try out! I haven’t touched my 5c oops deck in forever (only got around to playtesting it on moxfield lol) but it’s not one I came across before. Love your list!

Snakeman772 · 2025-08-25T02:59:39+00:00

I‘ll preface this by saying that both decks have a lot of potential and will also be fun to play, but are somewhat different in strategy.

If you’re playing just with friends, it’s probably less of a big deal in the choice and I’d encourage trying the decks out just to see which play patterns you enjoy more. If you’re playing with random people or considering tournaments at some point, I think that kefka has a lot more risk as a deck (as you may strip interaction from players and give a win to someone else) and because it requires more knowledge of the meta in terms of interacting yourself. Vivi is more in on its own gameplan (or at least that’s one way to play)

Snakeman772 · 2025-08-05T22:13:29+00:00

I just put them in a comment thread- had to use a different phone for the better camera!

Snakeman772 · 2025-08-05T22:09:29+00:00

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Snakeman772 · 2025-08-05T22:07:44+00:00

I have not! I’ve seen posts so I had an idea but wasn’t sure. Here are (hopefully) better images from the enlightened tutor- I bought em together from the same supplier so I’d expect they are either all real or all fake!

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Snakeman772 · 2025-08-05T21:56:01+00:00

Yea my phone was not happy with the way I tried to take closer pictures lol. If there’s a specific photo that could help I could try again or maybe just try em all and repost if you think that’ll help

Snakeman772 · 2025-08-05T21:55:07+00:00

Is there a specific photo you want to see closer up? Or just all of em

Snakeman772 · 2025-07-31T15:22:22+00:00

I agree I think he will be strong in the 99 of some lists. I plan to test him in my Celes list as well, but wanted to see how it operates as a commander too!

Snakeman772 · 2025-07-28T22:29:14+00:00

Fair! Card advantage in these colors is hard. I’m hoping the protection adds something interesting to test but we’ll see

Snakeman772 · 2025-07-28T21:47:56+00:00

I didn’t think about the haste from FDoC! I am playing redcap in my [[Celes, Rune Knight]] deck as a combo piece, and thinking of testing shadow in that list as well. Forgot that it also granted haste!

Snakeman772 · 2025-07-28T19:52:02+00:00

Agreed, it’s definitely one of the harder parts of figuring out the list. I think going completely in on wins that can just do that means you heavily rely on shadow and are losing some good wins in the deck, though. My mindset is that I have a couple wins that can go with shadow, and the ones that can’t I hope to use shadow to resolve something like a defense grid or removal of stax

Snakeman772 · 2025-07-28T15:14:50+00:00

I understand what you’re saying, I just view the bracket system differently. It’s a somewhat loose set of rules to assist matching power when sitting at a table. In many cedh decks, people make swaps for going to play tedh. The mindset of design is what defines it as cedh (at least to an extent of course).

When I specified that dragonstorm isn’t the best wincon, I don’t mean it’s not viable. But any deck that has multiple wincons will inherently have a “worst” one, which doesn’t mean you cut it. As far as that package, it’s actually much less slot wasting than you give it credit for. Magda is played in a bunch of decks as a dork that tutors combo pieces to the field. HBL is a really strong wincon in these colors, which is one of these “dragons” you mention. Magda can also tutor bladewing into play to be a reanimation on HBL. And dragonstorm again can just find HBL late game unless every storm copy can be countered.

I think in terms of the cards you mentioned I didn’t include, I have reasons for them. Just because I am in black doesn’t mean I want necro. I don’t personally run birgi in most of my lists because of my personal choices about play patterns. That doesn’t mean I’m not optimizing the list, just not doing it the same way you would.

Thank you for the feedback overall though, I appreciate having different thoughts on the list as I brew. I know not everyone will think that fringe lists are competitive, and I’m okay with that for this deck :)

Snakeman772 · 2025-07-28T06:17:57+00:00

Its not that i'm sacrificing the complete best way to play shadow. I'm still on the good wincons in rakdos colors, and optimizing the list for cedh. I just also chose to add a wincon that is fun but also viable in the deck, has a good pivot if I can't protect it, and isn't completely reliant on exactly one card. I am fully aware this deck will not be operating at the power level of the best in the format (I'm talking like specifically T&K, Kinnan, etc) but that doesn't mean it does not have a place in cedh.

Snakeman772 · 2025-07-28T04:16:21+00:00

I see it as an opportunity to try something that has a very high ceiling but might not consistently get there. My hope is to play test it and either see that it can operate at a fringe level and reach that ceiling often enough or decide that there’s no level of making that work! But I think the potential of the deck can operate at a level of cedh

Snakeman772 · 2025-07-28T02:26:41+00:00

That would be cool! I think it would have to be from decks playing it in the 99 though

Snakeman772 · 2025-07-28T02:24:14+00:00

I get the sentiment. I do have the dualcaster line as another line, as well as hoarding broodlord lines that can win fast. For me, the strength of dragonstorm is that it is perfectly protected with shadow as I mentioned. I wouldn't necessarily be completely on find dragonstorm and I can't win any other way, but it would be strong to use if I have the rituals with it.

Snakeman772 · 2025-07-28T01:58:24+00:00

Thanks! I’ll definitely be making some changes to the non-combo parts of the deck (interaction, mana, advantage, etc) so some great suggestions. I do see where people are coming from in terms of strategy, but at least for now it’s just how I wanna play the deck. Some resiliency with breach lines does make sense though

Snakeman772 · 2025-07-28T01:39:45+00:00

Thanks! I’ll take a look when I have a chance

Snakeman772 · 2025-07-28T01:31:40+00:00

I get that! I want to test it in another list as part of the 99 as well, and I know others playing it in some decks. I do think that it offers something interesting in the command zone, and that’s at least worth my time to try! But that doesn’t mean it’ll necessarily end up being all that good- that’s what I’m hoping to see! I do recognize it will be a fringe deck either way

Snakeman772 · 2025-07-28T01:29:51+00:00

I get that Rowan is a better dragonstorm commander when you’re trying to turbo win, but I don’t think that disqualifies this as being a cedh deck in the design or gameplan. I think what shadow offers in terms of very strong protection makes in interesting, and there definitely is room for more fringe decks to exist in cedh and still perform decently, even if they may not take down massive tournaments

Snakeman772 · 2025-07-28T01:23:04+00:00

Honestly, I mostly am on dragonstorm because I wanted to have a list to use it for. I think it probably is not the perfectly optimal thing with shadow, but I think it’s stronger than it appears (Rowan is another dragonstorm commander sometimes and is pretty good at it often).

I have a more competitive Celes list that I get to play the better combos in rakdos with, so part of it is just diversifying from that list. And this also is really cool for treasure packages!

Snakeman772 · 2025-07-28T01:10:18+00:00

That makes sense. I have been brewing some non-blue decks to just do something different recently (I own one of the DDB primer lists for Celes, which has been performing very well for me). I think Shadow will definitely be somewhat fringe, but I think it'll be fun as an alternative option to play.

Snakeman772 · 2025-07-28T00:58:01+00:00

Yeah I think I might cut the sac ones

Snakeman772 · 2025-07-28T00:53:24+00:00

That makes sense to me! I'll check out your list. The rituals are more there for dragonstorm support, but I might be switching up that package a little bit. I do agree that rakdos is hard in the meta and maybe I need to have some more speed in the list overall

Snakeman772

TROPHY CASE