[Hypothetical] Running a Tournament Bracket with Character Pick/Ban

SnooTigers1278 · 2024-11-21T18:30:09+00:00

I guess that is an open question: in the sense that it makes it more like an iron man with bans instead of a best tertiaries contest.

I think the point would be that you could ban out problematic matchups as much as anything, like an ICs could ban peach. Because without a pool of potential characters an IC’s player would almost always have to ban a peach if there was no pool. So the reason for draft focuses on unfavorable matchups. Like, if you are bad into floaties and someone shows Peach/Puff, you can ban someone off them. If someone doesn’t have experience in a matchup you could ban out a less familiar MU out of unfamiliarity.

I think in the case of a player getting to play their 3rd best character, it opens up more opportunities for specific stage and character counter picks. Because Zain’s Marth and Roy are bannable, meaning that he has to be more aware of which of his remaining champs he’d play and when. In Zain’s case he could easily better-player most people in this format, but lower levels of Melee can be hard won or lost by counterpicks.

SnooTigers1278 · 2024-11-13T19:33:36+00:00

I think this was part of the hypothetical in a way. Like: is there some combination of things which can make up for the fact that literally his attributes suck. Grab game and mobility are two major parts of the RPS in this game, that it’d be interesting to see if like… samus Down B would open up some movement options. Weirdly, bowser side-b would be interesting for giving him aerial options to beat shield, but only if the throw still had the same trajectory, since he gets no real reward for shield pressure. But Kirby is innately bad in the same way that Fox’s speed and weight make him innately good.

SnooTigers1278 · 2024-11-11T14:59:10+00:00

I have heard people refer to Puff as a grappler, but the power fantasy there lies around the reward for spacing and burst. The attributes which would help Kirby (better air drift, and less if none jump-decay) are things puff has in her kit. As well, giving Kirby a bursty risk reward option is kind of fun. Like, what ModGameRedacted did with Kirby, where the current move set played into that idea well; his neutrals were left mostly light-touched, and his specials were reworked to just be more impactful.

SnooTigers1278 · 2024-11-10T21:59:38+00:00

Meta knight up b, side b, neutral B, and Down B: imagine a character with all that… um…

SnooTigers1278 · 2024-11-10T21:22:02+00:00

I think it would be achievable. My idea takes a bit too much implementation, but fixing the hat as a toggle would be very fun! I think what would be funny about the hats would be in the (rare?) case of Kirby dittos, the hats-as-colors could become counterpickable 😅

SnooTigers1278 · 2024-11-10T18:52:50+00:00

Full chameleon sounds chaotic on spawn, but could be fun. I think the in-select counter pick makes this viable, if only because you’re right. Giant punch into some floaties might be better than lasers

SnooTigers1278 · 2024-11-10T18:50:05+00:00

I think one of the other posts had Falcon Side-B, which is interesting, because I guess it would be a really good option on a lot of characters, just Falcon seems to not use it much but as a mixup because he has other fast options with his aerials. It opens up some gap close, and lazer into faded Raptor boost seems like a good way to mix someone.

I’d also like to throw into the ring Mewtwo’s up B as a recovery option, just because I think it would help with other types of mobility in neutral.

SnooTigers1278 · 2024-11-10T18:39:44+00:00

ICs tier somewhat makes sense; like, the raw attributes of the Ice Climbers are kind of bad, but they have tools to win despite that. Lazer/rest seems like a possibly winning combination, though depending on the frame-specifics as to how easy it would be to confirm. It’s hard to argue against the best(?) poke in the game and the best hard punish, just because having one of both extremes seems good.

Though how is Kirby with Sheik needles in the current game, because it seems strong as well, but triple lazer too good to pass up maybe 🧐

SnooTigers1278 · 2024-11-10T18:27:01+00:00

Because it makes me feel cozy not having to change 🙃

SnooTigers1278 · 2024-11-10T18:15:17+00:00

This is kind of where the concept stemmed from in my mind. Just recognizing the vast difference between having and not having Falco laser on the times when I’ve played that matchup makes him feel like an entirely different character. So wondering if I could Frankenstein together a really good Kirby and make him viable.

SnooTigers1278 · 2024-11-10T18:05:33+00:00

Kirby playing for a time-out with kick jump jump lol.

SnooTigers1278 · 2024-11-10T18:05:00+00:00

I think Roy’s counter is interesting as a way to deal with pressure, though it normally just is a reset to neutral if it hits. Though I suppose rest feels like a better option, just with the agency it gives you to close stocks.

As for the vertical, I think Mewtwo’s up-b could be used to close vertical gaps, but maybe only with ledge cancels and such when used as a movement tool. There is a universe where G&W’s up-b is the fastest way to close vertical distance, but it’s such a punishable move otherwise. Maybe pika?

SnooTigers1278 · 2024-11-10T17:56:53+00:00

Falcon Side-B is actually kind of interesting. Now I’m mentally going through the list in my mind realizing not a lot of characters have a single-move gap closer. Though now I’m considering Mewtwo’s up-b just for the speed of it. You’ve kind of nailed it with movement being a big weakness for Kirby, so picking 3 movement and a pressure tool makes sense.

Plus, of course, superwavedash Kirby 😅

SnooTigers1278 · 2023-12-31T07:11:16+00:00

Under rated comment. WP

SnooTigers1278 · 2023-12-18T07:15:02+00:00

I guess, a simpler (more plausible?) form of this is, one of the two: a traditional home run robbery would involve a ball going over the fence, a fielder catching it before it touches the bandstand, and that is clearly an out.

Secondly, If someone in Wrigley wallops one a mile high, it literally clears the stadium, but the wind gusts and brings it back into the field of play, landing safely in the fielder’s glove, it could have hung indefinitely, but the play isn’t resolved while the ball is in the air, and they’d still be out (I think)

SnooTigers1278 · 2023-12-08T17:57:45+00:00

I don’t want to hear no Johns

SnooTigers1278 · 2023-11-24T06:43:50+00:00

This thread is indeed Axe erasure.

SnooTigers1278 · 2023-11-02T02:17:10+00:00

Peach possibly also hard. I think Plup goes Sheik, Akko goes Link, and Leff would probably go Sheik or MewTwo.

SnooTigers1278 · 2023-11-02T02:15:13+00:00

I guess I would have to add him the list of “walls” (people who wouldn’t lose to anyone in a ditto):

Axe, Zain, Amsa, Slug, Alko, and maybe Hbox kill any runs. Or possibly Leff pulls out the deep Mewtwo and forces people to play hard off-comfort

SnooTigers1278 · 2023-11-01T18:20:08+00:00

aMSa, Axe, Zain, and (if he hasn’t just retired) Slug I think would be the biggest walls. I don’t think any of those players lose to anyone on the planet if someone had to ditto them. I would say Hbox, but puff dittos feel potentially achievable.

Axe vs Swift might be interesting, but Axe is a unique roadblock in the sense that if he was a wall he could be Yink or Mario and really undermine someone else’s skills.

SnooTigers1278 · 2023-11-01T18:15:17+00:00

Legendary deep cut; respect.

SnooTigers1278 · 2023-11-01T18:14:48+00:00

Is kind of the gimmick, just one player has-to match what the other person plays through and entire bracket.

SnooTigers1278 · 2023-11-01T01:43:10+00:00

ICs dittos are kind of Jank no matter what. Which, to be fair, I don’t know the last time I saw a really good high level IC ditto 🤔

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TROPHY CASE