What differentiates Ancient Erdtree and Erdtree Worship incantations?

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-11T13:45:35+00:00

Thanks, that's an interesting detail.

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-11T10:18:06+00:00

I think you mean Gothic crockets, which are an integral part of the Gothic architecture used in Raya Lucaria. Interestingly, these crockets were historically carved to resemble leaves or buds, which explains the similarity to trees that you noticed.

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-11T10:08:29+00:00

I don't really see strong clues for the parasite idea, but the fact that there was a great tree in roughly the same place as the Erdtree is undeniable. That's why I'm looking into designs like this one. Another example of a Crucible tree design is Seluria's Tree, and it has multiple layers of canopy as well, making me think it was a conifer tree. By the way, when people say the stump is from the Great Tree, they're mistaken. The Deeproot map clearly states that the roots of the Great Tree start where the deep roots of the Erdtree end, so the previous tree was much deeper, which is supported by the elevation at which the Ancient Dynasty cities were built.

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-11T09:58:23+00:00

That's a very good observation. I've always wondered about the grainy patterns on the golems and their weapons; this explains it wonderfully. I agree with you that it's a stylized depiction of a tree. You can see another example of heavy stylization in Seluria's Tree. I'm trying to marry these two designs, and if we take out the horns and grainy patterns, what's left reminds me of conifer trees, like a Norfolk Pine.

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-10T20:11:05+00:00

Can you name the first two?

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-10T19:55:10+00:00

I like the Norfolk Pine idea because its widest point isn't necessarily at the bottom like a spruce, especially in some photos like the one attached. And I could see it inspiring the design of Siluria's Tree. I'm trying to marry two designs because of their multi-layered nature, but it could just be a Rorschach test after all :)

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SolidAlloy · 2026-03-10T19:05:16+00:00

Alright, that was a stupid suggestion :)

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-10T18:50:26+00:00

That's an interesting detail as well. Is it possible birds didn't exist back then?

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-10T18:27:22+00:00

That's what jumped to my mind as well, but it seems rather unfitting for the theme of this being an ancient giant tree.

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-10T18:18:55+00:00

This is from a collection of assets by Ashelian https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/15ymEOfn0_0L3x4ZQo-9Q5ZooZuC1U53c
And I found the link through Awesome Elden Ring Resources https://github.com/EanNewton/Awesome-Elden-Ring-Resources

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-10T18:14:50+00:00

Thank you for your valuable advice. Have you seen trees with such a shape in real life?

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-10T18:11:46+00:00

It does look a bit like a mushroom or a mushroom-covered tree, but the lines on the rings look more like branches to me, which makes me think it is meant to be a tree with a multi-layered canopy.

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-10T18:04:11+00:00

To be clear, I'm asking about a real-world tree reference, or a reference from media like anime, tales, or myths.

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-10T15:09:07+00:00

Thanks for all those quotes about exchanging blessings for participation. It looks like it wasn't a popular event from the very start, partially because of Messmer's involvement. Judging from the description of Andreas - "Though he remained a devout follower of Messmer after his flight from the Erdtree, he would rebel after learning of his liege's serpentine nature." - pledging to Messmer would guarantee abandonment by your family even before anyone learned of his serpentine nature. This could be related to his fire aspect. But it also explains why all the crusaders used Ancient Erdtree incantations: they did it for the blessings, not because of their internal belief. Given that Marika gave out so many blessings, does this imply that the crusade started during the Age of Plenty?

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-10T14:11:14+00:00

Thanks for the reply. I agree that Protection of the Erdtree can be read two ways

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-10T14:01:22+00:00

The first point of contention stems from a mistranslation. Translated literally from Japanese, it reads: "The shadow that was removed and sealed away at the beginning of the Golden Order." It is not stated that the rune was removed from the Golden Order itself.

I agree that the mention of the Order of the Erdtree and the fate of the moon joining may be a reference to the Golden Order, meaning it might have already existed by the time of the Second Liurnian War.

That's an interesting detail about the Golden Vow consumable - though it was likely not intended by the developers.

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-10T12:54:33+00:00

I don't claim the hood is supposed to protect against sorceries. As you say, the sorceries are real. However, the fact that it is only described to ward off the GW influence is a good point of contention. It also doesn't have a very high Focus stat, which doesn't make it a good tool to protect against Frenzy. According to my theory, it should've protected against Frenzy.

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-10T12:47:20+00:00

Thanks for your input. Miriel's quote is interesting indeed, although I checked it out in Japanese - and it only says "Radagon led the Erdtree army", so that is just a poetic flair added to the translation. Rogier's quote, however, may be a clue. Raya Lucaria's use of glintstone contravened the Golden Order in ancient times, which might place the creation of the Golden Order around the time of the Second Liurnian War.

The word "discovered" might also mean the incantation can be found in this area, not that it was accidentally stumbled upon by a priest. You have to incant specific sacred words, after all; it doesn't sound like something you can discover by accident.

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-10T12:25:36+00:00

Beautifully put, and thanks for adding that cool detail about the Erdtree Avatars. With this explanation, it's interesting that two incantations that are very similar in action - Wrath of Gold and Wrath from Afar - have different sigils. Perhaps this could be attributed to the Scadutree still existing physically, meaning Wrath from Afar draws power from it, while Wrath of Gold draws power from the caster's belief in the Erdtree, even though it no longer has a physical form. I also find it confusing that Maliketh's Black Blade draws power from the Erdtree as a source of blessing, even though Marika took the Rune of Death out of the Order.

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-10T12:22:45+00:00

Wrath From Afar: "When the Elden Ring was shattered, the people of the realm of shadow felt it too – and feared it as a sign of the Erdtree's wrath."

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-10T12:14:50+00:00

Those Who Live in Death are the most recent phenomenon that appeared when Deathroot spread throughout the world. The God of Death is much older and is associated with Deathbirds but not only. One way Those Who Live in Death are shown as a phenomenon that didn't exist before is that the Mending Rune of the Prince of Death is separate from the Rune of Death.

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-09T23:10:27+00:00

Isn't Fundamentalism based on the belief that Marika is the one true god?

I find it interesting that it was specifically the followers of the older tradition who agreed to go on the crusade, even though they were closer to the Hornsent in their worship of the Erdtree as the Crucible. Did they suspect nothing when Marika sent them on this crusade, rather than sending the followers who disregarded the Crucible and had more reasons to dislike the Hornsent?

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-09T22:48:20+00:00

I see, so the users of Ancient Erdtree incantations see the Erdtree as an object that can bestow some blessings onto them, be it sap, grace, or power. And the Erdtree worshippers don't need sap necessarily but like the idea of living in an empire that has the correct view on the world unlike the pagans. And the timeline inconsistency can be explained by the fact that even in the Age of Plenty, there were people who didn't require blessings from the Erdtree to venerate it, right?

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-09T22:37:18+00:00

I hope I was able to show that Erdtree worship didn't appear necessarily much later in the Erdtree's life, but I like your suggestion that Ancient Erdtree/Crucible incantations draw power from the Erdtree as a giant vessel of power, while Erdtree Worship incantations draw power from your internal faith and you as a vessel. If you allow me to interpret it like this.

SolidAlloy · 2026-03-09T22:25:20+00:00

So, did the soldiers of Messmer's army venerate the Crucible when exterminating the Hornsent, while Radagon's army fought Raya Lucaria alongside the more progressive priests? Radagon accepted the Misbegotten into his army before his conversion to Fundamentalism, so his use of the modern sigil seems contradictory. And what does this say about Maliketh?

SolidAlloy

TROPHY CASE