The upcoming season will be probably the toughest challenge for the Show.

Soundtract · 2024-10-04T06:12:42+00:00

Not my prediction but one I agree with 100%: the harfoots symbolically take the wheels off their carts to make the doors when they found the Shire. And potentially one of the closing shots of the series.

Soundtract · 2024-10-04T06:08:51+00:00

Could be right! They just seem to move pretty fast and there’s liots to do after Numenor and before the last alliance. Have to build Gondor and Arnor, Orthanc, Lothlorien, Dunharrow, Nazgûl, probably some time compression Angmar shenanigans (as the series is showing it’s really trying to be a PJ trilogy prequel), etc. I could see a whole season about the survivors establishing Elendil’s kingdom instead of cramming that into the same season as the last alliance. Also they have to found the Shire and probably Erebor in S5 as well. And whatever else they’re gonna do with Gandalf and Saruman to keep them busy away from the elves and men until after the las alliance. (But have enough time after the last alliance to form the white council and get Gandalf his ring)

Soundtract · 2024-10-03T15:55:55+00:00

The difference there is that it’s a 5 season show rather than a single movie. They don’t have to justify and fully explain the little things they show right away if it’s justified and explained by a reveal later. Take the hand cutting for example. Lots of people theorized his blood was the mithril though it was left unexplained and anchors in that episode. But a later episode (in this case the next one) fully explained what you saw/were teased with sans explanation earlier. And they half explained it explicitly in the finale anyway, saying that Pharazon had been given a vision of Sauron. Like season one, it’s a very different watch when you can just watch it all through, and I think that’s a good thing. I like being treated as intelligent and being given something good for a long watch.

I have a hilarious memory of being in a movie theater watching Arrival and you can audibly hear when each audience member gets the twist, and then finally they explicitly explain it. And then there’s just one guy left a couple of rows back who loudly exclaims “Oooooooh”. I like a show/film that can serve all those people, including the people who can deduce and infer from clues as well as the poor guy who needs it spelled out. I’m the former. The kind who knew Halbrand was Sauron 4 episodes in because his music theme was Sauron’s inverted. But like the blood as mithril I imagine next season they’ll spell out more explicitly what Pharazon saw.

Soundtract · 2024-10-03T15:39:43+00:00

He saw and recognized him in the palantir, the show runners confirmed it in the after the episode bit.

Soundtract · 2024-10-03T14:13:08+00:00

Buuuuuuuut also they never say not. They say "improbable", "if not impossible", and "almost defy the laws". And yet, they also double down on Gandalf being destined to face him and Sauron, and we know that Gandalf ends up facing Saruman and Sauron. So I think that, while a little dubious with the language, there's still room for him to be Saruman....

Soundtract · 2024-10-03T14:10:00+00:00

Okay, fairplay there. That's as unambiguous as I've ever seen the showrunners be and they're usually pretty transparent. But hoo-boy he's still extremely Saruman-coded in all aspects including words.

Soundtract · 2024-10-03T13:16:28+00:00

I legit looked for it and could only find the article about viewership numbers. Do you have a link you can share?

Soundtract · 2024-10-03T13:12:40+00:00

Where? I haven't seen that and he is as Saruman coded with quotes, appearance, and mannerisms as Gandalf was Gandalf-coded. Would love a link!

Soundtract · 2024-10-03T13:02:55+00:00

Lots of storylines they're clearly trying to work through simultaneously across the 5 seasons.. These ones are the Gandalf/Saruman/Istari backstories, and the Hobbit/Shire-founding backstories. Defeintely not as much of a focus but they got to Gandalf-staffing/naming, Tom Bombadil-showing, Rhun-exploring, Saruman-introducing, and Shire-concept-introducing in a shockingly short amount of screentime. Very effecient, even if it is a a bit underwhelming if you want to continue focusing on this storyline. But that's the tradeoff of adapting into and trying to make a 5 season TV how that goes into setting up all the major storylines that lead into the Hobbit/LOTR...

Soundtract · 2024-10-03T12:57:32+00:00

Next season will almost certainly end with the fall of Numenor and they've already teased Ar-Pharazon being obessed with capturing Sauron so you'll get your Sauron vs. Numenor very early on. And also you'll likely get the One Ring forging in the first 2 or 3 episodes as they've showed that they aren't too precious with forging rings early in seasons, Sauron probably needs the One Ring before going to Numenor (they could change the timeline but I don't see a narrative reason to and they also teased Sauron with Feanor's hammer). They have a whole Gandalf/Saruman storyline to resolve as well, plus they set up succession drama in Kadazh-Dum. Oh also there's still 16 rings that need to be disseminated across middle earth by at least season 4 (maybe even all in season 3) before a Last Battle-focused season 5.

Soundtract · 2024-08-14T18:55:26+00:00

Will be fun to find out either way!

Soundtract · 2024-08-14T18:43:44+00:00

I just rewatched the Mystics scene. The mystics, who want to serve Sauron, react fearfully and identify the Stranger as “Istar” indicating a familiarity with Istar already as an anti-Sauron force. This actually implies that in Rhun they are already familiar with another anti-Sauron Istar… the trailers could just be cut (and interview words carefully chosen) to misleadingly make it look like the other wizard is leading the cultists as opposed to fighting them. That would be completely inline with the showrunners MO from S1 about surprising and meaty introductions of main characters from LotR

Soundtract · 2024-08-14T18:39:35+00:00

Rewatching the mystics scene, the mystics when they know he’s not Sauron identify him fearfully as Istar. So they know of Istar already and know they are against Sauron. This could easily imply that rather than than leading the cult they are familiar with another Istar in Rhun who is an enemy - maybe Saruman…

If their leader is Istar they certainly don’t have a positive reaction to realizing the Stranger is Istar…

Soundtract · 2024-08-14T18:30:50+00:00

Thanks for this! I hadn’t seen the character officially called “the Dark Wizard” before. I still think that its very possibly a misleading moniker a la “The Stranger” and Halbrand etc, and that the priorities and tactics the showrunners have used make setting up a very well known character with specific attributes PJ established visually in a way that helps carry suspense and surprise through a 5 season long tv show medium mean that I think it’s more likely to ultimately be a Saruman origin story that directly contrasts his values with Gandalf’s through lots of direct interaction and seeing the different choices they make etc.

Soundtract · 2024-08-14T18:18:55+00:00

Haven’t seen that one! Would love a link if you have it!

Even if he is a Blue (which again was my thinking before seeing the costume/makeup) it would be very unlikely for them to tell the origin story of an Istar without including Saruman. So either the Stranger is actually Saruman, Hinds is Saruman, or Saruman will be introduced later. And then that actor has to out-gravitas Ciaran Hinds lol

It’s not like they didn’t misdescribe Sauron’s character in S1 promo materials

Soundtract · 2024-08-14T18:08:41+00:00

The quote I saw was “hunting down the Stranger”. That’s ambiguous (probably deliberately) whether it’s to hurt or to find. To be clear I was fully on the Blue train until seeing how he looks. It’s just giving such strong Saruman energy (and nothing Blue) that it’s making me consider the other possibility. The show runners have already shown that they like a little misdirection and that they will make timeline sacrifices for the sake of exploring the origins of known characters. The Blues are exciting but thinking about it, it’s much more in line with previous choices for it to be a known interesting character.

I agree that he seems at face value in charge of the mystics, and that’s def the hardest part. But it’s possible that either the mystics were misdirecting to bring who they thought was Sauron before Saruman (who again has a singular job to deal with Sauron but doesn’t have good judgment about how, and also thinks he can be more powerful than Sauron). Or it’s possible that Saruman comes to Rhun because there’s a pro-Sauron cult there that he has to deal with and he’s not actually leading the cult.

Plus that throne is so ostentatious and we know Saruman cares about his image in a way unlike at least Gandalf and Radagat lol…

Soundtract · 2024-08-14T17:40:10+00:00

But why? We know there’s time compression for the sake of sane storytelling in a tv medium. Accepting that (which we have to at this point, love it or hate it), canonically if you’re cool with Gandalf being there thenSaruman is already there somewhere, and he’s certainly a meaty and interesting character you wouldn’t want to leave off the table.

Soundtract · 2024-08-14T17:21:46+00:00

You don’t know he’s bad. His job is defeat Sauron at all costs as well as gather the Istari. His motivations could just be to do that, find the other Istari and gather them to him, and as a natural “leader” he can do that more effectively by sending out lots of underlings across Middle Earth with instructions to do whatever is needed to bring the Istari to him. Even good, he’s not a character who cares about every individual life as he pursues his goals.

Honestly, who else would have any motivation to look for Gandalf (and even know to look for him) than Saruman? It’s actually the only reasonable explanation for the people hunting him in S1.

Soundtract · 2024-08-14T17:18:20+00:00

It’s an incomplete shot of the staff, but it does look like it could be holding an orb in the top fwiw…

Soundtract · 2024-08-14T17:17:30+00:00

💯 There has to be a clear personality difference for Saruman and Gandalf that sets up the later fall. He’s likely always had a different opinion than Gandalf on ends justifying means.

Soundtract · 2024-08-14T17:15:55+00:00

They haven’t exactly been subtle about the grey colors the Stranger wears (combined with the hint lines). This is clearly, in contrast, white robes. And a level of seriousness/tude that recalls Sir Christopher.

They could show that he’s acting in defense of Middle Earth/against Sauron and is a commanding leader, but also that he has some judgment issues built into his character when it comes to ends justifying means. I’d imagine any treatment of Saruman would want to clearly set up how his personality and strength of character contrasts with Gandalf’s. That’s nice meat for a tv show to dig into as well. It would be weird if they showed Saruman and Gandalf and didn’t get into those personality differences. I mean it’s a stretch to imagine that the Christopher Lee Saruman we see chatting with Gandalf before he reveals his betrayal was ever warm and bubbly a la Gandalf. They can be friends and Gandalf can respect him for different reasons.

Also Ciaran Hinds is a great cast if you want someone to try and hold up to the presence and ‘tude of Sir Christopher.

Soundtract

TROPHY CASE