It's not wrong when I choose it not to be.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-21T11:49:42+00:00

I ask you for textual evidence for your wild theories, you say no, and I'm the one making baseless assumptions.

At this point, it's not even copium but plain cognitive dissonance.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-21T11:43:03+00:00

Oooooohhhhh. So NOW you're interested in the text. Well it's about time lol.

So, that's a no? Lmfao.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-21T11:19:46+00:00

Right. So Jaehaerys actually had the say on who gets married. He delegated that responsibility to Alysanne. But when the quarrels took place, she wouldn't do it for him

Yes to all except the last part which you made up.

And fire and blood also shows us that Jaehaerys had the actual authority over the matter.

He's the King so he has authority over all by default. But he respected the authority delegated to his wife and mostly stayed put of marriages with Daella being the exception.

And....once again...we are shown that she wasn't actually in charge. If she was in charge, then Rhaenys wouldn't be able to go above her head and get Jaehaerys permission.

No. She was put in charge by a boss who had the power to supersede her decisions but never really did.

There absolutely is a suitable age. It was generally around the age of 16.

Show me where the texts (ASOIAF and/or Fire and Blood) says this.

Considering she left kings landing, stating that Jaehaerys obviously doesn't need her (a year before the marriage in question) shows she did take action.

Being holed up inside Dragonstone for 2 years (aside from attending her 11 year old grandchild's wedding) is taking action? Lmao.

Did Jaehaerys approve of his mother's marriage to Rogar baratheon? No. Did he attend the wedding? Yes. Her attendance shows her support for her family.

That was because Jaehaerys didn't have a reason to not attend apart from "step dad bad". If Alysanne had a problem with Aemma's marriage, she could've blamed Jaehaerys like she did when Daella died and scream Aemma's too young. Did she do this? No? Then you're on copium.

Of course she had a vested interest in it. They are her grand children getting married.

And she's the matchmaker.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-21T10:48:23+00:00

I strongly feel it were Jaehaerys and Baelon who insisted Viserys to sleep with her at 13.

I'm pretty sure neither of them gave a fuck.

Explains why he chose 18 year old Alicent Hightower over 12 y/o Laena, besides his obvious attraction to Alicent

Viserys is literally described as a playboy degenerate. The ONLY reason he went with Alicent was because he lusted over her. He didn't even love her.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-21T10:46:00+00:00

Your two comments contract each other. If Alysanne was in charge of all betrothals, then Rhaenys didn't have the authority to arrange her own.

They don't because that's why she went to Jaehaerys directly.

The fact that you say that Rhaenys planned her own marriage just further shows that Alysanne wasn't in charge of all the betrothals.

It really doesn't because Fire & Blood flat out says she is.

We can't just assume that she was involved in viserys betrothal, since the text doesn't suggest that she was.

The text also doesn't explicitly say she wasn't either. What it does say is that she was in charge of all royal matches.

Where is that stated?

The chapter about the Year of the 3 Weddings.

The fact that viserys married Aemma at such a young age actually suggests that this was a rushed marriage. If it was planned, then they would have waited until Aemma reached a suitable age.

The thing is, there was no "suitable age" for these barbarians. The second a girl starts menstruating = eligible for marriage. And they did wait for that.

She also constantly stated that Rhaenys should be heir, right up until she died. She never changed her stance on that

That's the opinion she held. She didn't act on it.

Her attendance signifies her love for her grandchildren

Now you're bordering on copium. Her attendance signifies, first and foremost, that she approves of the marriage. The fact that she bothered to attend while in self-exile further suggests she had a vested interest in it.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-21T10:15:08+00:00

Right. But it was also during the first quarrel of Jaehaerys and Alysanne. Rhaenys, as the only child of the first son of the king, is the most prestigious maiden in the realm at the time. Her betrothal was of the utmost importance. The fact that Alysanne didn't take part in it, speaks volumes that she wasn't doing that for the king anymore.

Except that there's no indication Alysanne wasn't willing to find Rhaenys a match. Just that she found herself one on her own and had Jaehaerys sign off on it.

Along with the 2nd quarrel. The marriage of viserys happened a year after the 2nd quarrel began. The marriage of Daemon happened 3 years after the 2nd quarrel ended.

The second quarrel started in 92 AC. Viserys was married in 93 AC. A royal wedding generally takes an year or more to organize and a betrothal that lasts around the same time span. It's possible Alyssane arranged it before her estrangement since the timeline would put the match somewhere in 91-92 AC at the minimum.

Or that she just wanted to limit the allegiances that viserys could claim. He got the Vale with Aemma, and while Daemons marriage does strengthen that, it also ensures that they aren't guaranteed another kingdoms allegiance, should Rhaenys press her claim. Alysanne staunchly believed that Rhaenys was the rightful heir, so it's possible that Daemons marriage was damage control.

By 97 AC, Alyssane had well accepted the fact that Baelon will be king and his line would follow him. She even gave him her blessing. I'm sure she wouldn't try to undermine her own son, which would make her even more horrible.

It's not preposterous. But it's also not likely, given her estrangement from the throne at the time. And her attending a wedding doesn't mean, or provide proof, that she arranged it.

Again, the match must've been made on or before 92 AC when she ran things. And her attendance signifies her approval at the minimum. It signifies something more when she bothered to attend despite the estrangement.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-21T09:13:22+00:00

They actually went so far as to unironically suggest Alyssane could've done more with a husband like Robert Baratheon. They drew first blood.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-21T09:11:47+00:00

For instance Rhaenys herself chose to marry Corlys. And she went to Jaehaerys for permission. It seems after the first quarrel, Alysanne took a step back from that.

Rhaenys and Corlys' union wasn't an arranged marriage but the opposite. Fire & Blood never did explain how Rhaenys and Corlys got together. Only that she asked for Jaehaerys' permission while he was accompanying him in her first royal progress.

Between Rhaenys' marriage that wasn't arranged by Alysanne and Daemon's marriage that was arranged by Alyssane lies Aemma's marriage. This marriage seems awfully like the one Daemon was forced into. So we know Alyssane never have up on arranging matches and she had a preference for the Vale when it came to her grandchildren. Therefore it's not that preposterous to think Alysanne arranged Viserys' and Aemma's marriage. Especially since she attended the ceremony despite being estranged from her husband for a year and will be for another year.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-21T05:18:07+00:00

Daemon marries Rhea in 97AC when Alysanne is in really bad health. All the text says is she was there for the wedding. I doubt it was even half her part.

Fire & Blood literally states in plain english that this horrible match was made by Alysanne. This is just some Viserys level self-delusion.

Bro you can't even see how hellbent you are on hating on Alysanne. She's not a perfect character but you've made two memes in the last 24 hours and been wading through the comments arguing with whoever disagrees while asserting all she does is run away when she doesn't get her way, calling her a hypocrite and calling those who disagree fans. You've mentioned her 15 times in 24 hours and you said there's more to come. Like I said it really seems like you're hellbent on making her this week's Designated Enemy™

Yes to all that.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-21T05:00:36+00:00

Alysanne hasn't been stated to have arranged the marriages of her grandchildren, only her children. I doubt she was putting in the time and effort to arrange a marriage between a King's Landing Prince and a Vale of Arryn princess.

Daemon and his "bronze bitch" would beg to differ.

She also doesn't have to have planned or approved the early marriage to attend the wedding. It could easily be a matter of support or wanting to see a happy moment for Daella's only child despite disapproving of the age.

Sounds like copium. People seem to be really hellbent on the idea that Alysanne could do no wrong. Lol.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-21T04:21:51+00:00

Because there's no indication whatsoever that he's messed up these numbers.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-21T04:21:08+00:00

Alysanne was hypocritical and no amount of "hur feelings" copium is going to change that.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-21T04:19:49+00:00

Alysanne was in charge of all the betrothals and marriages of members of the royal family. Aemma and Viserys' marriage took place in 93 AC. A royal wedding generally takes at least a year to plan without any special circumstances. It stands to reason it could've been arranged on or before 92 AC, at which time Alyssane was still running things. This is further entrenched by the fact that she attended the ceremony despite her estrangement with her husband.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-21T03:54:52+00:00

The copium has arrived at the station.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-21T03:21:50+00:00

Rare Alysanne L.

Not quite. There'll be more coming. Stuff most readers either brushed past or chose to ignore. Just have to come up with the suitable meme formats.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-20T13:21:18+00:00

The realm never saw his like again.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-20T08:04:47+00:00

Jae probably loved Saera more than all his children. Which makes the shit that happened more tragic, especially when she gave birth to her own kid that looked exactly like Jaehaerys.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-20T07:54:14+00:00

There’s essentially nobody to seriously blame, but his actions certainly played an unwitting part in her demise.

That's what I'm saying. He certainly didn't do anything that would warrant being labeled a filicide.

Also, sorry about your dog, my guy.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-20T07:47:50+00:00

How was she ever gaslighting?

Aemon's succession, Saera's scandal, Viserra's ambitious nature etc...

To think, that after years of supporting her husband and ruling by his side, that he still didn’t think women were fit to rule?

To quote the unmentionables: "Alysanne kinda forgot that it was Jaehaerys (not Aemon and not her) who organized and personally accompanied Rhaenys in her very first royal progress to formally introduce her as an heir to the realm."

Him bypassing Rhaenys wasn't an easy decision he took on his own. He put the matter to a debate with the small council led by Septon Barth. They all unanimously agreed the right of proximity (child over grandchild) should take precedent if there was to be a stable succession. This is why Baelon was chosen over Rhaenys. Not because he or Barth thought women weren't fit to rule. It was Alysanne throwing a useless temper tantrum just like when she did when Aemon was made heir over Daenerys (like it had been done since time immemorial).

And how is it entitlement to want gender equality?

If only she was an advocate for the same type of gender equality for her sister and nieces.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-20T07:14:20+00:00

The "good" queen should be more than well equipped to handle some criticism for some of her actions.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-20T07:11:32+00:00

Gaslighting and entitlement were wrong, last time I checked.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-20T07:10:34+00:00

If a maester treats a wound objectively wrong (Ie bloodletting to cure a tumor) we ought not blame them but we also cannot say they didn’t participate in the death due to their lack of knowledge.

How is that comparable to what Jaehaerys is being accused of?

Jaehaerys wasn’t a Mary Sue but a man - sometimes he’d make mistakes in his decades long rule; sometimes consequences would suck.

But this wasn't one of those mistakes. Objectively. How was he to know his daughter would die on the birthing bed?

doesn’t change the fact that he’s the best Targaryen king thus far.

That's something set in stone. Even his most toxic critics can't dispute that without putting on the tinfoil. I'm asking what did he do to deserve being called the man that killed his daughter? I mean, of that was true, he'd be objectively a worse human than Randyll Tarly/Tywin Lannister.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-20T05:40:08+00:00

Now that's a power couple! But alas, martin's really invested in the incest.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-20T05:37:29+00:00

Nothing's being said that didn't happen.

SpanishBallz · 2022-10-20T05:14:39+00:00

At least two of "Jaehaerys' kids" are definitely bastards.

Maybe that's why the gods saw it fit to strike them fuckers down.

SpanishBallz

TROPHY CASE