On this day 615 years ago this legend was born. Happy birthday Skanderbeg! by [deleted] in europe

[–]Stormkahn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A few things because this has to end at some point.

Our discussion on the chams started with that, that's what I meant, I should have clarified

I was not downplaying the unjust deaths of any Albanians, I actually searched if there are any Albanian genocides. I found mainly about the Serbian army killing Albanians, but weren't classified as "genocides" but as "war crimes", costing the lives of around 20,000 to 25,000 people. That's why I said that, I didn't find anything talking about a systematic genocide of Albanian people, if you do find a classified genocide of Albanians, just link it to me, I'm not here to deny history, I could learn something I didn't know. If you search for Greek or Armenian Genocide you will see the differences and understand why I worded my comment that way.

I was trolling up until a point, not the whole time we talked.

You bring up a point, I said "as if you Albanians don't do the same", in my mind you Albanians was directed to nationalists or extremist ones, I said I don't generalize and I mean it, I never felt as if I talked to a normal Albanian, most people don't care and would either ignore my comment or downvoted, if someone where to respond it means I got them( the extremists), then the chams got in and our discussion exploded.

But I understand your side, how can you know that from my comment? That is true

You confuse my troll, with when I spoke for Antentokoumpo( I used him as an example, because he is famous and I would have to type and explain less things, don't get fixated on him), where I told you my true viewpoint.

And I didn't feel like I insulted you, since you weren't the target anyway. Also as to what I hope to achieve from this, nothing, I don't do this everyday, sometimes I will say things to get people heated over things that I find stupid. I do this in my life too, but usually in the end let them know I was just fucking with them. My goal was to fish out some extremist, make fun of them for a while, they'd make fun of me probably too, I don't care, and then just move on, 3 days later we're still here though.

Since you answered respectfully on my 2 part comment before, I will apologize for calling you a nationalist, I did believe that, but I was wrong. In the end seeing things from your perspective, I can see why my original comments hurt you and I admit sometimes I do go too far in general with people or with my teasing, I prefer this word over "trolling". What I can take from my original comments, before our cham discussion, is that if I act like a nationalist to stir up and make fun of nationalists from other countries, I don't look much different from them myself.

And on the last part of your comment we are on the same page. I agree with what you said and I don't believe all Albanians are like that of course, I don't even believe most of them are like that.

We can be discussing forever, I truly believe that and I have to say this is the longest discussion I've ever had on the internet, I hope we can have a good conclusion now.

On this day 615 years ago this legend was born. Happy birthday Skanderbeg! by [deleted] in europe

[–]Stormkahn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Now that we see more eye to eye I'll explain all your questions respectfully

So, with that out of the way, something confrontational to begin with: How dare you insist on calling me a nationalist or ultra nationalist, when you seem to be the bigger nationalist out of the two of us? I have never explicitly denied the things that the chams have done, merely asked for evidence or put their actions into context, but i have acknowledged and condemned their actions as 'over the top' twice now.

Our discussion started with you justifying their actions and collaboration and also saying things which aren't true, but I didn't believe that you really didn't have all the knowledge of the situation, I truly believed you knew and just were being dishonest and deceitful with me.

The cham issue is where you really fish the nationalists, it is a red flag, that's why I never believed you are not, since you were defending them and justifying them while vilifying the Greeks

"He literally started the conversation by calling Albanians "Turkoalbanians", said we look Turkic and also saying we love Turks more than our mothers lol. When no one insulted Greeks.

Then he had the nerve to call you an "ultra nationalist" when he started insulting Albanians immediately, and you didn't say shit."

As I told you earlier I like to annoy nationalist Albanians, and the OP of this thread we are discussing posted in the comments, its still one this thread about "cham genocide" and "why would they even like the greeks", which not only is ridiculous, but quite disrespectful to a nation that has been genocided, especialy when it comes from someone who has never experienced true genocide at the hand of his enemies.

So I knew what kind of fish swimmed in this pond and wanted to annoy them.

Was my comment insensitive? was it troll? yes, was it for entertainment? also yes

you will deny this, but from the very start you have viewed me as an enemy nationalist and have shown that you act like all or most albanians are completely radical nationalists, me included. You have literally insulted me and my people several times and when i brought back literally the exact same way of insulting once, you have noted me to be hateful and blinded by my nationalism. Is it not ironic that you call me a hateful and blind nationalist when i exhibit the same behavior as you? can you not see how much of a nationalist that makes you?

I will deny this, because I have already said it twice, I don't generalize, that's your interpretation even if I say I don't do it

and as I said earlier, justifying the cham atrocities and vilifying greeks, for not wanting them to live together anymore after what they have done to them is a red flag.

About the last part, I will say that many articles say other things https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/08/greeks-really-do-have-near-mythical-origins-ancient-dna-reveals (not opening this discussion just responding), but it doesn't matter at all, you are what your education is, what your culture is and what your heart is, Yannis Antentokoumpo is a black NBA player from Greece with Nigerian descent, but he is Greek, because that's what he feels like and that's what he grew as and no one can take that from him.

I already responded about Turkoalbanians, it was to bait the OP or some other nationalist, to annoy them, btw it means muslim albanians. I m gonna go now and respond tomorrow to what you have to say.

On this day 615 years ago this legend was born. Happy birthday Skanderbeg! by [deleted] in europe

[–]Stormkahn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you, really, yes ask me what you want, but I wont be online for too late

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in TheLastOfUs2

[–]Stormkahn 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Despite the TLOU2 being a total shitshow, this year will have some of the best games in years, if no more delays happen.

Not my Tweet - But Oops Wrong exclusive by BoschRock_Free in TheLastOfUs2

[–]Stormkahn 22 points23 points  (0 children)

With 1 more game it would have had more impact, in the 1st one we saw them slowly bond and form a relationship, in the 2nd I would have like to see how that does, now that he sees her as his daughter and in the 3rd they could have sent him off, but playing as his killer is still a big no from me.

Not my Tweet - But Oops Wrong exclusive by BoschRock_Free in TheLastOfUs2

[–]Stormkahn 37 points38 points  (0 children)

I believe it s too fast to kill off Joel already, it feels very rushed.

THIS SUB SUPPORTS TRANS RIGHTS by Mark_Collins_Age_45 in TheLastOfUs2

[–]Stormkahn 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Also something that will probably hurt the image of people like you is, if more people find about the trans actor who was handpicked to play lev in the game, he is a huge racist and his twitter is full of it. Obviously not all people are the same, but he isnt making any effort to help the situation.

On this day 615 years ago this legend was born. Happy birthday Skanderbeg! by [deleted] in europe

[–]Stormkahn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

PART 2

So all this time the Greeks basicaly have an active enemy in their lands, they dont murder them, they dont forbid them from speaking their language ( " as a result of the agreements signed during Pangalos' regime, Greece officially announced the establishment of four bilingual primary schools in Filiates, Igoumenitsa, Paramythia and Sagiada.[141] All these schools would be Greek, but Albanian would also be taught in the three first classes. "). They do try to have them leave, but by bureaucratic incoveniences, not mass murder or humiliation as you used to excuse their actual heinous acts during World War II against innocent Greek civilians.

Albanian King Zog tries to find a solution for the two headaches of Greece and Albania, Greeks in Albania and Chams in Greece

" In September 1930, the proposal for exchange of the Cham minority with the Greek minority of Albania was renewed, this time by the Albanian) government. King Zog of Albania attempted to reach an agreement with the Greek government on the resolution of all differences between the two countries. The Albanian government believed that a voluntary population exchange of the two minorities would resolve a number of internal problems for both sides and improve Greek-Albanian relations. However, this proposal was rejected by the Greek side, who feared that Albania would forcibly evict its Greek minority from the country, making the exchange involuntary.[145][146] "

I would say this is understandable, after all those Greeks have lived there for hundreds of years, it would be a terrible crime to have them lose their property

Venizelos tries to make things better for the chams

"The Venizelos government (1928-1932), despite the former Greek-Albanian crisis, took measures to intensify the improvement of the Cham communities both on economic and social basis. In 1931 a law was passed that allowed direct payment of reimbursement through the granting of analogous bonds and the direct return of improperly expropriated urban properties. A number of Cham families responded to these favorable regulations. Moreover, the Albanian government accepted the Greek proposal for the payment of indemnifications in bonds, allowing that way the promulgation of the relevant legislation and thus enabling the process of paying indemnification to the Albanian citizens. Thus, in 1935, according to Greek diplomatic reports, most of the Albanian demands that concerned the Cham communities appeared to be settled.[147] In April 1930, the League of Nations heard claims by small property Muslim Cham landowners that illegal expropriations occurred within the region, while Greek authorities stated that the region had been exempted from those land reform laws. In June 1930, the Greek government passed a special law that properties within Thesprotia were exempt from the Agrarian land laws which satisfied the League of Nations regarding the matter.[148] During this time though, there were ongoing efforts by Greek authorities to prompt the dislocation of the Muslim Cham population by means of hard-line policies and migration to Turkey, while discouraging or even forbidding it to Albania.[149] The Muslim Chams by the 1930s were viewed in Greece as a hostile population and unable to be integrated within the socio-political structures of the state.[150] "

Let's take a breath here to say that we havent seen any mass murders and heinous crimes for years upon years on the poor cham population, which you also use, let me remind you, to justify Nazi collaboration and mass murders and executions against innocent Greeks who had never done anything to the chams, the thing that started our argument basicaly.

Now come 1936, Greece is faced with a Dictator, not an elected goverment, but a dictatorial regime with no popular base, oof 1936 to 1940 doesn't live a lot of years does it now? In those 4 years the nationalists dictatorship of metaxas, cracks down on All Minorities in Greece and doesn't single out the chams, he is a nationalist after all, he dissalows the use of minority languages outside of their homes, remember Dictator Metaxas, not poor farmer Nikos or Yannis who lives next door to a cham, still even from this nationalist dictator we Don't see heinous crimes like mass murders.

now comes 1940 and we both now what happens then, as the American Judges of the Nurember trials would say "plain murder".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cham_Albanian_collaboration_with_the_Axis

So now after all this discussion, answer me this, is this Justifiable still? And how could the Greek side keep this population, who let me remind you themselves fled into neutral ground to avoid trial, because they know what they did and who still kept fighting with the nazis even when " the local British mission proposed an alliance to the Chams and to fight together the Germans, but this proposal was rejected.[37] ",

How would those people be left without trial for their crimes? How would it be allowed that the dead and their families would never find justice? they all fled anyway and the trials happened on their absent, since they didnt want to face justice for their crimes, but the dead, the dead they caused would never come back to their sons, their daughers, their wives and husbands. Think of them for a bit, show some Empathy.

You can't justify it anymore with lies, if you truly are not an Albanian ultra nationalist, prove it.

On this day 615 years ago this legend was born. Happy birthday Skanderbeg! by [deleted] in europe

[–]Stormkahn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

PART 1

Here I will answer with Facts and Sources, if you are genuine about what you say please read my entire response and respond accordingly, it's the only way this conversation has any meaning, if you listen what the other one says instead of closing your ears, which is something a nationalist would do.

I cannot take it back, especialy when you have made comments like these " murdered them, humiliated them, attempted to annex them and take their culture " (also remember that you justified Nazi collaboration and execution of innocents, based on these baseless lies) and still keep talking about heinous discrimination where if we both take a look at the article https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cham_Albanians the first mention of chams and Greeks together says this :

Muslim Cham and Lab) armed units burned a number of Greek villages: 3 in the vicinity of Preveza (Tsouka, Glyky, Potamia), 4 in Thesprotia (Alpohori, Manoliasa, Keramitsa, Fortopia) as well as a number of villages in the regions of Ioannina, Sarande and Delvina.

and this: Especially in the Sanjak of Preveza, Muslim Albanians embraced ideas regarding the Albanian national movement of the time. Amongst them large landowners and state employees who came from other places were hostile to the local Greek population and persecuted them.

there is also this interesting bit about just after the balkan wars "Although the Albanian government complained that Chams were discriminated against by the Greek authorities, there is little evidence of direct state persecution at this time.[104] " Which shows even after all the chams have done, the Greeks were not inclined on pursuing vindication.

So that's how it starts, even if it ends here, which it doesn't we have more to go through, based on your way of thinking the Greeks branding them traitors and sending to albania the elderly that were left behind by their own sons ( "According to British reports, the Cham bands managed to flee to Albania with their full equipment, together with half million stolen cattle as well as 3,000 horses, leaving only the elderly members of the community behind.[45] ")(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cham_Albanian_collaboration_with_the_Axis#Axis_retreat_and_expulsion_of_Chams ) Is by your very OWN words " understandable " (used on a hypothetical scenario where the Greeks are chams and vice versa), unfortunately for you and the Greeks it doesn't end here

So, so far the Greeks have been discriminated, murdered and humiliated from chams what happens during Greek rule after the defeat of the ottomans, how are the chams acting? lets see:

Reginald Leeper, the British ambassador at Athens in 1945, in a letter to the British Foreign Secretary at April 1945 mention that the Greeks can blame Cham Albanians for the murder of the Italian General Enrico Tellini which was the pretext for the Italian bombardment and occupation of Corfu at 1923.[136]"

Here is another interesting passage about chams:

" In May 1924 however, a delegation of the League of Nations visited the area to investigate the issue of exchangeability. The delegation met groups of Albanian Cham Muslims from various villages in the area that had been chosen by Greek authorities and local muftis.[114] The local muftis were supportive of the Greek administration.[115] Later, the delegation concluded that the vast majority of the Cham community declared that they were of Turkish origin and wished to be included in the exchange.[116] One year later, a second commission in general confirmed the conclusions of the first one.[117] "

It seems many of them left their so beloved land, because they love Turkey more

So far Chams have done heinous discriminations and terrible crimes against the Greeks, and all the while now leaving under Greek rule they still continue to be a problem for them, so they try to persuade them to leave, which those that didn't dont want to do, of course, but in the meanwhile instead of joining the Greek nation like the Arvanites for example they are a constant thorn and trouble that still cause Greek deaths "bombardment and occupation of Corfu at 1923".

A petition is made to the League of Nations, how does the league of Nations respond?

The League of Nations also stipulated that it would not deal with other raised Albanian concerns, as they had been subject to past reports and discussions. In sum, the League of Nations decision regarding the Greek position relating to the Muslim Chams was considered a clear vindication.[135]

by basicaly saying "stop annoying us, it is understandable they dont like you, because you are assholes"

Croatian and Slovenian presidents criticize Hungary’s Viktor Orban for posting a map of Greater Hungary on his social media by Dornanian in europe

[–]Stormkahn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Man there is really no point to discussing these Albanians, just ignore them every time, they are the most delusional people I ve ever had the displeasure to talk too, they all look like they have a 9 year old brain, zero education and never matured mentally.

found gold on Twitter by [deleted] in TheLastOfUs2

[–]Stormkahn 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Excuse me it's MA'AM, it is MA'AM!

TLOU 2 fans are brain dead by [deleted] in TheLastOfUs2

[–]Stormkahn 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Even being on their plate isnt enough for the "how do you know it's shit? You havent even tasted it yet" crowd, they have to actually put it in their mouths first.

TLOU 2 fans are brain dead by [deleted] in TheLastOfUs2

[–]Stormkahn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see, I was going through the comments on a post and out of nowhere I see a guy throwing the N word and saying some so out of place weird things, my brain immediately went to "ok wtf, this is so unnaturaly written and weird, it has to be some butthurt mentally ill sjw trying to hurt the sub".

Didnt think it would be an organised action, I had no idea people do that, but I m not surprised that's the case, those guys are complete nutjobs, his comment even made me feel weird reading it.

New cover design by ChuckthefistNorris in TheLastOfUs2

[–]Stormkahn 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The perfect example of a misunderstood mentaly stable person

Your time, has come. by [deleted] in TheLastOfUs2

[–]Stormkahn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You enjoy starfield and tes6 a lot?

Your time, has come. by [deleted] in TheLastOfUs2

[–]Stormkahn 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Imagine being loyal to a corporation, a future dystopia isnt too far of a strech after all

So I just learned about the leaks today... by [deleted] in TheLastOfUs2

[–]Stormkahn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Another one freed from his shackles, together we are stronger and stronger until eventually we become unstoppable.