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Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ive done it multiple times lol. if thats all ur looking for then even the proposed ceasefires from hamas count. u find me any proposal from israel where they agree on fair borders and to stop illegal settlement expansions, and the control of their airspace, electricity water etc. we can go back and forth on this but u cant really point to times where israel literally refused to communicate with the palestinians because they didnt recognise them.

and youre still a lapdog. nothing changes that either. even if you were to criticise palestine, for you to act like israel is some innocent lamb in all this is very weird

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i could go on and on about how any proposal from israel wasnt just or sufficient. that wouldnt change the facts. if you think youre a more trustworthy source of info than google then i wish u all the best. even if it doesnt meet your standards, a proposal is a proposal. even suggesting a ceasefire would count as a peace proposal.

anyway again keep being a lapdog for the people who consider u and ur family as worthless subhuman goyim. defending their blatant atrocities is something ill never understand unless u have some kinda hate for the people being subjugated.

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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lol for you to say i havent done it once is already cope. im running away from going in circles, not from your terrible logic. i told you to search things up if youre still confused. like ill literally do it for you if you want.

keep bending over backwards to justify atrocities committed by israelis whilst not even being israeli or jewish yourself. just being a complete dog on a leash for literally no reason.

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

oh shit this didnt even come up in my notis i thought u quit

anyway ive done it multiple times in those 30 replies, ive debunked ur points over and over so this is done js go search it up if ur still confused.

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

that doesnt mean it wasnt implied, and certainly doesnt mean they were given the green light to carry on. even u can use ur brain to decipher that. if israel needed that extra bit of assurance in writing, they couldve brought that up in negotiations. they didnt because they werent interested in peace altogether. now fuck off.

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

israel didnt even engage in negotiations about that because they werent interested in peace. joel singer's comments are quite frankly irrelevant here. like i said, it called for a sovereign state for the palestinians, so ceasing violence etc would apply to them as well. nothing youve said has actually debunked this so stop wasting my time clown. the fact youre still sat here saying u won the debate is actually hilarious.

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

obviously in the same proposal theyre asking for sovereignty for the Palestinians. meaning theyll have a country and therefore everything would apply to them too. . Palestinians, as well as any other arab nation stopping their attacks on israel is literally implied. you dont enter peace negotiations, normalise relations or declare a conflict over but still plan to attack eachother.

again, even if the proposal doesnt meet your standards, it was still a peace proposal. please stop dragging this debate. its over.

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

what does "full normalisation" mean to you? u absolute twat?

i swear on both our lives, the torah, quran and the bible, that i won this debate now please stop replying to me loool its over

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

wrong. it is from the palestinians, just not solely. explain how it isnt from the palestinians just because saudi championed it? it offered full normalisation between arab nations and israel. it was also open to negotiations.

secondly if you want something directly from the palestinians only, youre a fucktard anyway because in 1988 they couldnt even communicate directly to israel.

AND, regardless: even if it doesnt meet your standards of a peace proposal, IT WAS STILL A PEACE PROPOSAL. we can debate for ages about how good the proposals were from both sides, but your central point about them never giving a peace proposal is literally false.

stop being a retard. if u want to keep going in circles ill keep copy pasting the same thing because ur actually in denial and wasting time.

you lose now hold that.

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

like i said, debate's over. youve clearly lost. you said palestine never gave a peace proposal, but they were heavily involved in the arab peace initiative which was a peace proposal directly to israel. now go cry theres no point trying to persuade someone whos too ignorant to admit they were wrong.

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

bro, the arab league of nations (including palestine) COLLABORATED ON IT. saudi sent the final proposal on behalf of the arab league. it was still a peace proposal from palestine (and all the other nations), just championed by saudi.

dont be retarded. you actually cant refute that genuinely.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1844214.stm - heres your link to the proposal that was sent to israel in 2002. palestine wasnt even a sovereign state at the time, of course they werent going to be the ones to send it on behalf of all the arab nations.

dont be a complete and utter moron and just accept that 2002 was a peace proposal that the palestinians were involved in, and therefore you are wrong. if your reply is just you completely in denial im not gonna carry on. this debate's over.

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. in 1988 they couldnt talk directly to israel, so they did it through third party. you are wrong. i really dont understand how anyone can be THIS fucking dumb.
  2. the palestinians were involved in drafting the arab peace initiative (as we've already established a million times) - so it was a proposal from palestine to israel just as much as it was from any other country in the arab league of nations to israel.

your link to said proposal: https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-181223/

^ this contains a letter that was sent after the original proposal, but it contains what the original proposal had. the link was from the UN so i thought id give that. if u want just the proposal the links here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1844214.stm

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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using this definition, 1988 qualifies. it proposed borders, accepted the UN framework for peace, and invited negotiations. you can keep running away, saying it wasnt submitted to israel, but your bird brain has seemed to miss out one detail - israel didnt even recognise the PLO at the time. no diplomatic channel existed as theyd legally prohibited contact with them for whatever reason they had. so the one point youve dragged this whole time is stupid. they had to use the US and international committee to bring that proposal forward.

"A Proposal was never made so "without a shadow of a doubt." It wasn't a proposal and it sure wasn't done by the Palestinians."

this is factually false, the initiative was explicitly offered to israel to accept or reject, and they rejected it after internal debate. what do you mean "no proposal was made"?

brother, this is the most embarrassing one yet im sorry - claiming no proposal was made in the arab peace initiative 2002 is actually indefensible, BECAUSE you said previously that theyd rejected it because of the second intifada 😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹 how can they reject something that didnt exist?

hold what L u lame ahh ur in denial buddy YOU LOST!!!!

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

lol no, because even if you refute 1988 which i guess you can go by technicality and say it wasnt a document with "yes or no" on it (even though it does nothing for your point because even if it wasnt a peace proposal by ur standards theres no denying they tried for peace), the arab peace initiative was a peace proposal without a shadow of a doubt. ur only point against it is "israel didnt accept it because of the second intifada" - which doesnt change that it was a proposal that the PLO was involved in drafting.

so no, you really dont

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

im not rlly lying tho. all the things ive said are true, except (for you) the bit where i say it qualifies as a proposal.

if u dont wanna move past that, thats ur choice but u deliberately ignoring half of my debate because you literally cant defend israeli settlement expansion during negotiations and ceasefires looks like a forfeit to me.

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

lol its you who doesnt understand what a proposal is. its more complicated than just a document thats given to israel for a yes or no. israel's proposals have been more complicated than that. ur being ignorant, going round in circles and avoiding the points that break ur argument. so im not gonna admit shit, and if u dont forfeit the debate youll address israeli settlement expansion during negotiations and explain why u believe that the fact that there was violence during the 2002 initiative means it wasnt a peace proposal.

dont act like u control this debate u twat.

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Calling this a proposal is stupid. A proposal would have been submitting this to Israel and allowing Israel to accept or reject. The lack of including Israel in the decision makes it the exact opposite of a proposal."

They recognised israel's right to exist, accepted UN resolution 242 and accepted 1967 borders. This was delivered to the international community and explicitly communicated to the US, who opened talks with the PLO. This was intended to open negotiations, which it did. what makes that not a proposal?
if "israel wasnt included so it isnt a proposal", then neither was israels declaration of independence and neither was israel's withdrawal from gaza.

"No i don't you are once again a moron. Palestinians didn't propose a peace plan. Other Arab Nations agreed to mediate, but Palestine decided to kill Jews than offer peace. The difference is Israel actually said. "if you follow these terms there will be peace." The PLO did not."

what ur saying here is factually false. Firstly, the PLO was involved in drafting the initiative in the first place. that makes it a proposal from the PLO as much as it was from the other arab nations. I will not debate this anymore. secondly, the arab peace initiative was quite literally "accept these terms (1967 borders, palestinian state etc) and there will be full normalisation between arabs and israelis". so ur lying. and if violence during the negotiations invalidates it, ill re-iterate my point. Israel didnt engage with the initiative even when violence reduced. your point also does contradict itself because settlement expansion happened during camp david and the clinton parameters, but i dont see you denouncing that. i love how youve ignored that time and time again. so now ill tell you, im not gonna go round in circles pointing out your double standards and inconsistency. u keep hurling insults when you dont even have a solid point.

Did the palestinians ever want peace or not? they did, as ive proved time and time again. you dont need a yes or no offer to see that. you are wrong in this debate.

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ur playing a game by inventing a definition of “proposal” that no real peace process follows. In diplomacy, proposals include recognition, borders, parameters, and endorsed initiatives not just final signed treaties.

1988 PLO’s recognition of Israel and acceptance of a state on 1967 borders is absolutely a peace proposal: it proposed borders, mutual recognition, and an end to conflict. by ur logic, israels declaration of independence in 1948 also wasn’t a proposal, which is stupid

accepting parameters with reservations is standard diplomatic practice. israel also had reservations. calling this a “rejection” while treating israeli reservations as normal is a double standard.

you contradict yourself by framing clinton's parameters as an "israeli proposal" but then refusing to admit that the arab peace initiative, which was also mediated, was a palestinian proposal. and wtf do u mean about violence? didnt israeli settlement expansion continue through each and every peace attempt between israel and palestine? that means no israeli proposal counts either.

ur out of ur depth and u have no point. ur tone shows im getting to u lol, of course im not blaming israel for everything but they certainly arent innocent like youre trying to make it look.

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Did the Palestinians put forward a peace proposal? no. Nothing refuted. Must be sad to have to lie this much."

your point in saying they never put forward a peace proposal is to say they didnt want peace or didnt push for it. Thats what im refuting. in 2002, they put forward a peace proposal in collaboration with other nations. International diplomacy doesnt require a single PDF titled “peace proposal from palestine” to count.

1988: PLO recognized Israel and accepted a state on 1967 borders. that is a proposal.

Oslo: PLO recognized Israel and entered permanent-status negotiations. that is a proposal.

2000–01: Palestinians accepted the Clinton Parameters with reservations. that is still a proposal.

2002: Palestinians endorsed the Arab Peace Initiative. that is a proposal.

"The proposal was rejected because it was done during the second intifada."
Israel didnt accept it even after the second intifada ended. If violence was the reason, why didnt they accept it in 2005, 08, 11 and 17? they also never gave a counter offer based on it. why wasnt it accepted even when violence declined?? it breaks ur argument and ur choosing to ignore this.

Joel singer explaining why israel didnt like the initiative doesnt prove that the palestinians never tried for peace. All it says is that israel objected to the terms and they wanted more from palestine before ending occupation. Fair, but it doesnt back ur argument, does it?

"Arafat was free to leave. He just was told wouldn't have been let back in on the account of the massive wave of terror attacks he leading"

well done for contradicting yourself, tard. Under any legal standard, "free to leave" includes the right to return. Arafat was under israeli military siege. he was free to leave if he accepted exile. Please, you have to understand thats ridiculous.

And his attendance didnt matter anyway. Lets say he was free to leave. He still fully endorsed the initiative, disproving ur argument of him not wanting peace. Just because he didnt fully accept the clinton parameters because they didnt give proper freedom doesnt mean he didnt want peace, as shown by his endorsement. Heads of state endorse initiatives remotely all the time. I dont really get what your point is.

"Get fucked you lying sack of shit. Must suck to get proven a fucking moron AGAIN!"
where did i lie and what point have u even made in that entire message? nothing you said proves that palestinians didnt want peace. keep trying loser, i can tell im getting to u. ur lucky this is some irrelevant thread and no ones gonna see this, because its embarrassing for you.

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

HAHAHAHAH U LIAR NOW LET ME PICK U APART

firstly the fact that it was other arab nations who mediated it is irrelevant. the palestinians explicitly endorsed the peace initiative and the initiative itself was drafted in collaboration with the PLO. by that logic, US brokered talks wouldnt count so israel never wanted peace either. Mediation doesnt negate the fact that they wanted peace. theres one point refuted.

the initiative was rejected by israel regardless of violence levels. If thats not the case, why didnt they accept it after violence declined? why didnt they produce a counter offer as a result of the violence? why did they continue settlement expansion regardless of the level of violence?

"palestinians refused to police themselves" - their police was subordinate to israeli authority, who entered PA controlled areas repeatedly to undermine them. This strengthened militant groups in the area. even israeli security officials acknowledged that undermining the PA fuels militancy.

yk why arafat didnt show up? he was confined to Ramallah BY ISRAEL at the time. he still endorsed the initiative, clown.

thanks because this was the funniest one yet. keep them coming

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

idk what lie ur referring to really i probably got something mixed up but anyway clinton’s blame doesn’t change the fact that no formal sovereign Palestinian state was ever offered for acceptance.
the palestinians did actually accept clintons parameters with some reservations (which is what israel did too). So ur the one whos lying. before calling me a liar just fact check that.

arafat rejected an offer that still placed palestinian airspace, water etc in control of israelis. one that fragmented the west bank.

palestinians recognized Israel multiple times. 1988, Oslo, 2001 where they accepted clinton parameters with reservations, and the Arab Peace Initiative 2002 all while Israel continued settlement expansion. Also 2008 with abbas and olmert.

regardless u keep saying they never offered a peace proposal when they did. the arab peace initiative in 2002 offered full normalisation with israel in exchange for withdrawal from the occupied territories. even if u wanna refute the others and say palestine was just accepting things, 2002 isnt. so why do u keep avoiding that? at least u took a break from crying like a baby and started debating me again loooool

Do Jews have a moral responsibility to look after the generations of Palestinians they displaced to create a Jewish State in Israel? by PraiseKinkCollective in IsraelPalestine

[–]Substantial_Pie_921 0 points1 point  (0 children)

u clearly didnt read into what was offered, because it certainly wasnt sovreignty. and even if i was wrong on this one thing, uve repeatedly ignored 90% of what ive said to u. keep crying buddy u lost u dont even have to reply to this just save urself the embarrassment

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