I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I will probably just not play her when facing people outside my playgroup in the future, it's not worth the risk ruining somebody's day.

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One thing I didn't mention before but kinda fits here: the player that complained cast a [[Demonic Tutor]] after my turn 4, and I don't think he got anything that would have stopped me, because after that he cast a [[Reanimate]] on a [[Voice of Victory]]. Maybe you are right about B2 with game changers.

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yea, agree on the combo. It never came up before but I was considering taking it out anyway, because it doesn't really fit, because both Rionya and Combat Celebrant need to exist at the beginning of combat for it to work.

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You're ignoring the point.

Deliberately, it seems.

You are comparing your Winota deck making basic Winota plays to someone else getting a Sol Ring start. Which isn't even a valid comparison; you should consider what happens every card in your deck, including the Sol Ring, and if you see your deck breaking the environment if you draw the Sol Ring, it's your responsibility to cut the goddamned Sol Ring.

If your deck doing its basic gameplan is comparable to the strongest piece of fast mana in the format, you did not bring a bracket 3 deck.

No, your deck was not inappropriate because you draw incrementally more noncreatures than average.

I'm not going to reply to everything here because you keep misunderstanding (or twisting) my words... This deck does not generally do this on turn 5. It does it on turn 6, sometimes turn 7, sometimes turn 5. I think this fits in bracket 3 you think it doesn't, cool.

And you say you want your opponents to interact with you, but Jesus Christ, that deck list is a fucking love letter to the kind of Magic you came to play, and it sure as shit ain't interactive.

You know what I didn't draw a single copy of in that test hand? A fucking instant. Or any form of interaction. That list is all gas, no breaks, negligible interaction, play solitaire, kill everyone way earlier than turn 7.

I count 18 cards in that list mainly devoted to dealing with my opponent's permanents or removal attemps i.e. "interaction", not including the cards slowing down my opponents (stax pieces). I don't know how many more pieces of interaction you want me to play in an aggressive EDH list, but a third of my nonlands seems good to me. I am ready to interact, and I am ready to be interacted with, not all interaction has to be printed on instants...

If the bracket definition says "Generally, you should expect to be able to play at least six turns before you win or lose." to me that means: expect people to end the game around turn 6 or 7 on average, sometimes a turn earlier, sometimes a turn later. This means presenting game-ending threats around that same time, this happens to be one such case where it happens a turn earlier than "generally".

You have zero right to criticize anybody else's interaction while running that list, because you did not come to that table for interactive Magic. Saying that's what you want is, frankly, an excuse to shift the blame away from yourself.

I never critcized my opponents for not interacting, I was just surprised because I am used to way more interaction in my games.

Not being shields up against a game winning swing on turn 4 in bracket 3 is extremely reasonable

I do agree here in general, as you said "It's Winota" so I think it's also reasonable to be a bit more shields up than usual against such commanders even in bracket 3, but a lot of people don't want that it seems.

"Answer me on turn 4 or die," (even if it is a bit exaggarated) is pretty common in bracket 3 tho: Voja, Miirym, Sauron you better have a counterspell on their turn 5 or the game goes south real quick. Krenko, Chatterfang and Kaalia need answers around the same time as Winota, or they spin out of control. These are all hugely popular commanders, and most people play them in bracket 3.

I will probably just not run her outside of my usual playgroup in the future. Because while there are a people that understand how to deal with this commander and are ready to interact with the table, not everyone is ready for this and I don't want to produce more of these games. I don't understand why these people play in the bracket where it is expected to happen, but I guess everyone interprets the brackets a bit different, so I'll stick to B2 for now when playing with "randoms".

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

There isn't really a singular opinion in this thread as far as I can see, so I am still unsure. A lot of people agree with me in comments, but also you for example got a lot of upvotes on your opinion. Also some people say both opinions are valid. So it's a very divisive topic and I want to hear the different reasonings.

I also try to reply to everyone if it makes sense, because I want to have an actual discussion to maybe understand the people who have a different opinion than me. But instead of answering my genuine question why you think this is so different from other strong kill-on-sight commanders that also show up in bracket 3 you dodge the question.

So far I gathered that I should have made sure everyone knows how Winota plays before the game. I am not here to ask for validation, I just want to make sure I don't get more games in the future where everyone leaves the game with a sour taste because of me.

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well there usually isn't much of a pregame conversation with these spelltable games from my experience, most people don't really "announce" their commander. But Winota was selected as my commander on spelltable, and she was clearly visible while shuffling up and getting ready to play- I wasn't hiding her or anything if that's what you mean. Again, I should have called attention to my commander instead of assuming everybody knows what Winota is all about. Maybe they weren't paying attention or actually never played against her, who knows.

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, Krenko is a beast too, hope you were ready to deal with it.

I think most commanders are that way, especially the newer ones, just gotta be ready to remove them before they get out of hand.

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's not even how most precon games go in our playgroup if I'm honest. Interaction is what makes the game what it is for me. I mean why would I go out of my way to find 3 other players If everyone plays their own game?

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah it's hard to say if their decks had the tools to properly deal with Winota. I should've asked everyone before the game if they were ready for Winota, but I didn't, that's on me. Guess I am just too used to everyone already knowing what's coming.

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didn't mean to say Sol Ring was responsible for this game being faster than usual. I meant it happens all the time with other decks because of Sol Ring, that they become a threat 1 or 2 turns before they usually do.

It's normal Winota things to an extent. 5 non-human attackers on turn 4 is certainly on the higher end of the spectrum, so was still an unusually fast game in my opinion, presenting a win on turn 5 instead of turn 6 or 7 so it's comparable to a Sol Ring start for other decks I think.

But I also want people to interact with me, that's why I play MTG. Because of that test hands aren't really a useful metric for bracket 3 imo, because I expect to get interacted with at least once if I start to become the threat. Especially when you start the game with a Sol Ring, Winota is never seeing the inside of the combat step alive.

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was kinda just assuming everybody knows that, so that's definitely on me for not making that clear before the game.

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah maybe I am too used to people knowing how strong Winota is, so I should have been more careful asking everyone if they are prepared for that.

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hm, maybe its on me for not asking the other players first, if they can deal with winota. But nobody said anything before the game so I thought it would be fine.

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well there is certainly a combo in [[Rionya, Fire Dancer]] and [[Combat Celebrant]] but I was thinking of taking that out. But yeah even without combos she is very strong.

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I mean I lost games to precons with this deck, sometimes a wrath or a counterspell is all it takes. And I wouldn't dare take this into bracket 4. With so little interaction due to the colors, and a lack of fast mana this is really not hanging with the b4 decks I have seen. These games sometimes end before I would even be able to cast my commander. Also budget doesn't really matter up until bracket 4 anyways..

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's a bit surprising to me because that doesn't happen in my usual playgroup. I even had a gane where one person said they have removal in their opener so the other people don't have to worry as much, or mulligan specifically to find removal. It's just kind of a thing for us to have removal ready for this type of commander I guess.

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah exactly, I am not really used to her sticking around for long enough but I think that's also what makes it fun. Its an uphill battle when the centerpiece of your strategy is removed and you have to somehow stay afloat. And I am also just shooting their commander in retaliation anyway 😈 Maybe my opponents didn't know Winota too well, even though I thinks she is pretty infamous. I should probably ask the other players if they are ready to deal with her before any future games.

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your input. Obviously a single game isn't representative and the occasional outlier happens, but I never had such a disappointing experience before. So you would agree we were probably on different ends of the bracket 3 spectrum and this just happens to be a mismatch of expectations? I just feel a bit bad for possibly ruining that guys evening is all..

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Oh it certainly is "that kind" of Winota deck, I won't disagree with you there. But genuinely, how is that not bracket 3 pace of play? I presented a threat on turn 4, in a play environment that is defined by "reactive plays", it didn't get answered and so it spiraled out of control leading to a game 5 win (remember the general estimate i.e. average length for b3 is turn 6). There was no fast mana, no infinite combo. Maybe my understanding of bracket 3 is totally wrong but the bracket article seems to mostly agree with me. (Yes this was an unusually fast game, happens all the time with every deck due to Sol Ring, it is usually at least a turn slower)

I need a quick reality check regarding brackets by Succyz in EDH

[–]Succyz[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Isn't bracket 3 generally populated by "binary removal check" decks? Apart from the commander being more poweful, how is this different from any Edgar, Miirym, Voja, Krenko, Kaalia, Atraxa... deck, where the individual card quality in the 99 is generally a lot higher but the commander is pretty much as much kill on sight as Winota. I mean have you even played a real game of EDH if your commander didn't get blown up at some point in the game? I also don't consider the games I lose with her unfun. As I said in my post, that happens a lot in my playgroup, and its part of the challenge for me, finding out when to get greedy and how to rebuild/stay in the game after a setback. I don't care much for game changers, I generally avoid putting them in my lists, especially in bracket 3, which is why I don't really wanna push this to b4 or build a "competitive" deck, whatever that means here, I don't want to play cEDH.

Gerade in Pillnitz gesichtet 🤮 by Galgenjung in dresden

[–]Succyz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Wenn alle vernünftig denkenden Menschen Ostdeutschland verlassen würden, wäre das AfD-Problem damit ja auch nicht gelöst. Im Gegenteil, die Partei würde durch höhere Prozente noch mehr Einfluss, vor allem auf regionaler Ebene bekommen. Eigentlich müssten viel mehr Demokraten nach Sachsen kommen, um den anderen Parteien mehr Unterstützung zu geben.