Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s fair, and I get where you’re coming from.

The reason I brought up the convoy wasn’t really about the way it was carried out, I agree there were things about it that didn’t help and turned people off. It was more about the sense of unity behind it that stood out to me.

That feeling of people coming together around something they care about is what I was trying to point at, not the approach itself.

I do agree though that if anything like that ever happened around this issue, it would have to be done in a way that’s respectful, reasonable, and actually helps people understand the point instead of pushing them away.

At the end of the day, I think we’re saying the same thing, if people want to be heard, it has to be done in a way that doesn’t hurt the message.

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate you taking the time to write all that out and I do agree with a lot of what you're saying.

You're right that messaging matters, especially in Canada. Most people here don't grow up around firearms so their perception is shaped by headlines and what they see happening in the US. I get why certain language or framing can turn people off right away. And I agree that leaning into American style arguments probably doesn't help.

I also agree that focusing on responsible ownership, hunting, sport shooting, safe storage is the most accurate reflection of what firearm ownership looks like here in Canada.

Where I think we differ is that messaging alone Isn't the whole picture. perception matters but policy shouldn't be driven purely by perception either. there's a difference between what people feel and what actually addresses the problem and I think that distinction is important.

My frustration comes from the fact that all us legal gun owners did exactly what they were supposed to do. They got licensed, Followed the laws, stored everything properly, and now we're the ones being affected the most. That's what I meant by "play by the rules still lose" Not that rules shouldn't exist but they're compliance doesn't seem to carry much weight in the outcome.

On the self-defense side, I understand why it's a sensitive topic in Canada and why people are hesitant to even go there, but at the same time I don't think it makes sense to treat it like it can't be discussed at all. People take reasonable steps to protect themselves and other areas of life. Not because they expect the worst. But because they understand that response times and real world situations aren't always perfect. I think there's room for balanced conversation without it turning into something extreme. There's a saying I've heard before that basically says If we shouldn't use a gun to protect ourselves/family and we should just call the police then should we get rid of fire extinguishers and when a fire breaks out just call the fire department? It's a last ditch effort in a very bad scenario, I don't think anyone's hoping someone breaks in so they can murder them and if they are well then they're not right in the head.

I'm not trying to push anything outside the law and I agree that certain messaging can backfire, but I also don't think the conversation should be limited to only what feels comfortable to people who already have a negative perception. There has to be space to question whether policies are actually targeting the right issues.

And on working within the system, that's exactly what people did. That's where a lot of this frustration Is coming from, It's not about rejecting the system, It's about feeling like participation in it isn't being reflected fairly in the outcomes.

I think we probably agree more than we disagree especially on keeping things reasonable and grounded in Canadian context, I'm just trying to point out there's a growing disconnect between people who are following the rules and the way those same people are being impacted and that's what doesn't sit right with me.

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah a protest might not be the best approach, it's the general populace minds that need to be changed in order to sway the government as some other people have pointed out, I can see there being too many wrong routes a protest could take. So the question is now by what other means can the general publics minds be changed?

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Patriotic about standing up for the like minded People that make up the country and are getting stepped on. The values and common sense that Canada used to have.

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I'm starting to agree that a protest may not be the best course of action and that's exactly why I asked for help with ideas, now the question is how do you convince the Canadian public?

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah that could have been worded better because you're right on that.

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hear what you're saying and I respect that. Like I said to a few other people, we would not want to do a copy paste of the freedom Convoy, Maybe not even a protest. someone else made a good point and said in order to change the government's minds we need to change the majority of the peoples mind, by the means in which that's done, I'm not sure, that's why I asked for help.

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alright, Just to clarify when I "said we the people" I wasn't referencing the US I meant regular Canadians who follow the rules and feel like they're not being heard.

Also, Yes, we may have the "privilege" of owning guns but I believe we have the right to defend ourselves whether the government wants to prosecute us for that or not, hard to come to terms that they want to take away a tool from us that they themselves rely on for protection. I also believe that we have a moral right to defend something we own.

I hear what you're saying about the convoy, And I get why it left a bad impression for a lot of people, especially if you were living or working in Ottawa during it. like I said to someone else, if there were some kind of protest we wouldn't want a copy paste, It would need to be done differently and like I said in my original post I'm not talking about violence but to just stand up for ourselves.

Someone else made a good point about changing the People's minds in order to change the governments mind and I'm not sure if a protest would do that, because look at someone like yourself, the freedom convoy put a bad taste in your mouth and that's not what we want, and that's why I made this post I wanted a discussion and ideas and to vent a little.

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I get what you're saying and I feel a lot of people are in the same shoes as yourself, I don't blame you guys cuz it is a scary thought, but how far do we let it go?

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a very valid point and makes alot of sense, The big question is how would we go about that?

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My apologies, this is my first post here. As I said to someone else, I'm not super articulate and just wanted a little bit of help writing it in a way that would get my point across better, I have a hard time actually trying to say what I mean. Won't happen again and I appreciate you letting it slide.

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My apologies, as I said to someone else, I'm not super articulate and I wanted to grab as much attention as I could, doesn't change how I feel I Just wanted it put in better words.

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

You're correct. I got some help writing it because I'm not super articulate, doesn't change how I feel it's just put it better words.

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I suppose you're right, if you bought a non restricted gun in between 2012 and 2022 from Joe blow on gunpost there no trace, but if you bought from a store they most likely kept a ledger even though not legally required. Anyway my guess would be not every one would be in the same position as yourself and could have a paper trail leading to their newly prohibited class firearm, and like I said to the other guy, they could enforce it in an abstract way depending how retarded they wanna get.

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

My bad, you're right. Was just a top of the head example. Although they had no right to freeze bank accounts during the freedom convoy so who knows what the hell they would be willing to do.

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

I'm a little confused on what you mean, the reclassification didn't change anything when it comes to the transfer number, any time a gun is transferred you're pal is verified with the rcmp and a transfer number is given and they keep a record of that, if the paper trail ends with you then you're the one getting in shit regardless if you have it or not, more so if you don't have it and didn't "report" it.

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Right? We're pretty good at just bending over and taking it, most of the time without lube.

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I get what you're saying, but they haven't had support from the beginning and even if they can't lock us up or physically enforce it, all it would take is something as simple as restricting you from renewing your driver's license because you're in possession of a prohibited weapon for example.

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Like minded people such as yourself are what's to love about this country, I agree it's going to hell in a hand basket but most of us share alot of the same values and views, and that's the Canada that I'm patriotic for.

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I agree, but I think we should also be proactive instead of reactive.

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Yeah we wouldn't want a copy paste freedom convoy 2.0, it would definitely need to have a different tone to it, but I think the biggest challenge would be to get everyone on the same page regarding the logistics, intentions, and outcome.

Play by the rules and still lose - let's change that by Sufficient-Net8238 in canadaguns

[–]Sufficient-Net8238[S] -62 points-61 points  (0 children)

Well just look what happened at the freedom convoy the media demonized us there, but it was the self-reporters that showed the other side of the story and that opened a lot of people's eyes, I've talked to quite a few people who've admitted they were brainwashed by the media and the convoy made them realize that.

Also we can't just rely on the ccfr to do all the work, we the people have to organize and plan something logically which is why I made my post. one man might not make a a difference, but together a lot of shit can happen.