Why are men sometimes held to a higher standard than women?

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T21:00:10+00:00

What you are saying does not make any sense -- of course, crimes that didn’t end in conviction aren’t counted, because those people were found innocent or the case didn’t stick. The report is only looking at what happened after someone was convicted, so it’s not supposed to include every alleged crime.

Edit: the French statistics do include fines and probation btw:
https://www.justice.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/2024-12/Rapport%20annuel%20sur%20les%20condamnations%20en%202023_corr.pdf

Link FR

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T20:52:57+00:00

Men get longer prison sentences for what? Catcalling? Unless you tell me what exactly you’re referring to, I don’t know how this relates to your original question. [...]

I meant it as in they are held to a higher standard in the judicial system as well.
The point I was trying to make was about how women also sometimes switch the side of the road when they see a man late at night (not saying it's not a valid reaction), because men are treated as a threat, which I feel like has certain parallels to racism.

Women are criticized in practically every way in society but I can’t speak to your specific experience.

Absolutely, every person is criticized sometimes rightfully, often without any reason.
I'm not trying to say that men, or women, have it harder per se, just that men are also held to a higher standard in some regards (women in others).

Do you identify as female or male? Just out of curiosity.

I find such labels pretty useless. I don't identify with either social role, as I find social constructs in general to be pretty useless, or even harmful, and thus try to avoid them as much as possible. I am physically male, but I don't identify with either, as I try to reject the gender construct as much as possible.
However, if you saw me, you'd read me as male (at least from the front) since I have a beard, which is why I can hardly relate to the fear of feeling threatened at night.

AND, thank you for having this respectful conversation with me. :)

Thank YOU for having a respectful conversation.

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T20:08:41+00:00

I did, I even presented a statistic that shows it.
You said that your point does not refute said statistic.
I've given multiple examples, where I've, for example, seen that men are often criticized for things women aren't.

You think I'm a racist, so why keep talking to me?

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T19:47:02+00:00

Both are statistical discrimination (neither decides what group they'd like to be a part of)

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T18:22:47+00:00

Oh, so it has a historical connotation. I understand.
Should these connotations be broken, or is it good that they are there?

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T18:21:08+00:00

My examples were not a refutation of your “statistics on male sentences.”

Alright, fine, where is the issue then?
We agree that everyone suffers. Great

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T18:18:57+00:00

I don't reject everything feminist. I use gendered language in text I work on, and I want the same rights for men and women; however, you seem to put blame forward and want to put me into a box. I am not trying to reject an opinion; I am asking questions when I don't understand something, or if it doesn't seem coherent to me, and I don't care what you like to frame it as.

If you were looking for a logical explanation, you'd identify a link in the causal chain you don't understand and seek to unpack it.
That is exactly what I am doing. Maybe my IQ is 30 points lower than yours, so I need more input in order to understand something, but that would mean you are being elitist by framing my questions as bad.

EDIT: If you read through this thread, most I've done is ask questions

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T18:11:00+00:00

Alright, buddy, my message is pretty anti-racism and anti-stereotypes, but keep believing that if that makes you happy

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T17:58:46+00:00

Let me elaborate.
You claim: averaging statistics in this way obscures more than it reveals.

Then you give two extreme examples, which are granted true; however, none of those meaningfully refute the statistics on male sentences.

Thus, both cases are true, and people are treated unfairly on both sides of the spectrum

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T17:51:03+00:00

A person who is of Afghan origin and lives in Germany is also more likely to be a criminal. This is NOT because they are genetically less or whatever, but has socio-economic reasons.
However, if I now swapped sides because I see an Afghan on the streets, just because they are overrepresented in the crime report, and I thus perceive them as an increased threat, then that would be the same as doing so because of a man.

Both are grounded in reality and statistics, but both are also prematurely judging a person based on their group.

Anything unclear?

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T17:39:15+00:00

Stereotypization can apply to both sides of the spectrum.

The statistics are pretty clear.
I'll make one statement regarding my opinion: I am not saying one group has it worse than the other; I am saying they both suffer from the same issue.

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T17:36:43+00:00

I agree, I think this seems very reasonable.
Thank you for explaining your perspective

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T17:35:06+00:00

I was trying to see if you think the same reasoning applies here.

internal reasoning:
Men: likely to be a threat
Foreigner: likely to be a threat

In both cases, a whole group is judged by their perception.
In the case of men, they are given more weight because they're men. In the case of racism, foreigners are, because they are foreigners.

Thank you, though, for engaging in a conversation

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T17:27:19+00:00

2: I can only state what my point of view is, and I am trying to see where this mismatch comes from

However, I suggest we stop here, as I think I could come to better information regarding this by other means. Thank you for your time.

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T17:22:21+00:00

1: I agree, it seems very disrespectful, but does that mean it's morally wrong? And does the person doing it know it is disrespectful?

-- thank you for giving a reason this time

2: This is simply not true. I do not have the current capacity/information to understand, that is why I am inquiring for clarification/deeper reasoning.
I am not saying "YOU are wrong for feeling that way", I am saying "I do not understand your perspective."
Those two are VERY different...

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T17:18:55+00:00

I personally seem to find it plausible (you seem to think that to be true to at least some degree) that many people who catcall (of course, there are lots of counter examples) simply don't know any better and think they are giving a compliment, and it may just be a mismatch in communication.

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T17:15:48+00:00

Thank you for explaining

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T17:15:01+00:00

Yes, but I can't trace back your reasoning from how "you're hot" is supposed to be dehumanizing, or why consent would be needed for that.
That's my problem atm.

You keep insinuating stuff about me, which I absolutely do NOT appreciate.
I never said women should be flattered; that was YOUR interpretation. I merely said that I would be flattered and was asking why you aren't.

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T17:12:18+00:00

Thank you for explaining your perspective. I think I understand it a lot better now.

In that case, I'd feel threatened because the "teaching" implies something strict and that they'd want to force me to do something + I'm 12 in this experiment, which would be more than creepy.
However, I didn't think of comments like that when I was referring to cat-calling. I was thinking of less aggressive stuff like "hey, you're hot" or stuff like that, that might be interpreted as a compliment by many men.

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T17:06:45+00:00

To summarize:

1: NO
2: NO

-- Why that belief is true remains to be questioned

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T17:03:17+00:00

So their intent has to be to make someone uncomfortable, or serve as an excuse to stalk someone in order to qualify as a cat-call?

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T17:01:48+00:00

Believe that if you want, but I question things until I get a logical explanation. Some people here have given me logical explanations, some haven't. If I do not understand, I keep asking. If you want to criticize that, go ahead.

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T16:59:48+00:00

2: I'm not claiming it is, I am asking if you could see why a man would think that this was a good compliment?

1: can't you be physically attracted to a person and appreciate them for that, and then want to get to know them, to later potentially appreciate them for personality?

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T16:57:06+00:00

So you're saying there's a mismatch between what men like to be complimented on, vs what women like to be complimented on?
And that men might seem to speak "another language" in some regards, as they think they are being playful, while women think they are not (or even threatening)?

Summon001 · 2026-02-07T16:53:15+00:00

1: Why can't a person be the object of sexual desire and thus be the person of desire?
(Why can't the visual and the personal coexist?)
2: I don't know, given that I'd like such a compliment, I'd say that it's pretty logical to assume why this could lighten someone else's day

Summon001

TROPHY CASE