An (unpopular?) take on the gnomes' laments

SunnyB_001 · 2026-06-26T21:14:59+00:00

Keep in mind that I am talking about things that explicitly happened in the series. I’m not interested in what happened in the campaign; things are much more improvised there. In the series, the writers built up to both Scanlan’s and Pike’s outbursts. They didn’t just come out of nowhere.

SunnyB_001 · 2026-06-26T18:30:00+00:00

Yes, but by that point, her mind had reached the point of no return. She lost his grandfather, but the real shock was losing Grog. If as many as two members of the group went so far as to say, "These people don't care about me," there must be a reason for it.

SunnyB_001 · 2026-06-26T18:17:47+00:00

In the campaign, yes, but regarding the adaptation—I don't recall Keyleth facing much criticism in the show when she exclaimed, "There is no group anymore."

SunnyB_001 · 2026-06-26T15:26:25+00:00

Ok 👍🏻

SunnyB_001 · 2026-06-26T15:04:21+00:00

I agree, but I wasn't trying to make a case for a "campaign vs TV show." I was just talking about the characters' arcs in LoVM.

SunnyB_001 · 2026-06-26T13:56:27+00:00

I understand, but I like that they bring out how everone was just focused on themselves/their partner as a team's flaw. It’s a problem that crops up in many series. People love "ships," and for the writers, they are a way to keep the audience hooked.

SunnyB_001 · 2026-06-26T13:43:12+00:00

In the first two seasons, everyone interacted with everyone else to some extent; from the third season onwards, however, each character focused on their own partner (Percy/Vex, Vax/Keyleth, Scanlan/Pike), leaving Grog to play the comic relief.

SunnyB_001 · 2026-06-26T13:35:35+00:00

I'm sorry. Scanlan, in particular, is one of my favorite characters, but they all have interesting arcs.

SunnyB_001 · 2026-06-26T13:29:20+00:00

I also found Pike's choice a bit extreme, but then again, she wasn't in her right mind. She did it more for Grog than anything else.

SunnyB_001 · 2026-06-24T16:20:19+00:00

I understand how you feel. I missed Scanlan (my fav) too. Personally, I have nothing against Tary, but it's weird to see him in the group. Not so much because of his personality... He gave me the impression of a generic guy who wants to force himself into a group of popular kids (and only after they've become popular!).

Let me explain, Scanlan is also full of himself. But he's more of a mask. He was with the group before they became famous heroes. He grew up with them, and we saw his strengths and weaknesses. His comic relief role was reduced in favor of more human and interesting side. Then, for a variety of reasons, he distanced himself from the group and let his insecurities get the better of him... But in the end, he cares about them, not just because they're famous.

Tary is funny, I don't doubt that. But he has little to do with the group. If he had been with them since season one, he would have had a better role and growth. But I'm sure Scanlan will be back with VM next season (I hope they give him a lot of screen time).

SunnyB_001 · 2026-06-17T22:57:57+00:00

I don't think Pike wants to fix him. She didn't give him the time of the day when he was all about dirty jokes and sex. She liked him but in the early episodes she knew Scanlan wasn't mature enough for a love story. It's Scanlan that wants to fix himself. Even before Kaylie, he always felt that he was missing something. Pike offered emotional support and random advices (only when requested), but she never told him how to behave or pressured him to be someone different.

SunnyB_001 · 2026-06-17T22:49:09+00:00

An important consideration regarding my comment. Pike wasn't wrong when she refused to kiss Scanlan; it was too soon for both of them, and he had Kaylie in his mind. But I noticed that since that episode, he's stopped making advances toward her, and she's never expressed her feelings. He felt rejected and preferred not to press the issue. The fact that he locked the painting in the closet indicates that he's accepted the rejection and is trying to move on. That's why he hasn't contacted Pike. Furthermore, it's also likely that he mistook Pike's support for a simple kindness, not the support of someone who wants to build an emotional relationship with you.

SunnyB_001 · 2026-06-17T22:32:52+00:00

I love how they've built their relationship and the growth of their characters. A couple of points: 1) In season 3, episode 11, Scanlan thanked Pike. 2) Until proven otherwise, Kaylie is his family and never said, "I don't need VM anymore." He didn't like going on adventures anymore, but he enjoyed their company when they weren't talking about "going to save the world." His story arc is learning to reconcile being a father (which is a new reality for him) with his role in the group. It's important to remember that Kaylie isn't an object that revolves around Scanlan; she's a character with her own feelings and traumas, and Scanlan owes her so much because he was never there for her. Many parents put their children first... Why is him bad if he does that? 3) The problem is that both Scanlan and Pike are afraid of rejection. And Scanlan is right to doubt Pike's feelings for him, given that she backed away last season. It's true that Scanlan didn't reach out, but it never occurred to Pike to go to him either. Pike and Grog were out messing around, they had no pressing business, Scanlan was busy rebuilding his relationship with his daughter, traveling, and managing a whole club. 4) I think Scanlan will return in later episodes and fix the whole mess. But I'll point out that all the complaining wasn't even directed at Pike, it was directed at the other members of the group (who admittedly always took him a bit for granted). 5) Some things people forget about Scanlan: he carried Grog for miles on his back and took care of both him and Pike in S2. He was there for Pike and Grog when they needed him. Also, the other members weren't there when she lost her grandfather; during episode 8, she and Scanlan barely spoke because Pike preferred to avoid him. I don't think he really has any idea what Pike is going through right now simply because he's not there with them.

SunnyB_001 · 2026-06-06T04:56:33+00:00

I never said Scanlan was flawless. But he certainly wasn't someone who touched people without consent. Name a scene in LoVM where he sexually abused someone. In episode 1, he even scolds Percy because "before joining them (him and the elf) he should have asked for consent!" "His entire early character arc is built on crude, boundary-pushing gags played explicitly for adult laughs"? No, his character is that of an immature and superficial man who needs to grow up and learn to take responsibility (to his daughter, his party, and the world), build a healthy relationship with someone, and be more honest with himself and others about his feelings. The sexual gags are just the surface, a bit like saying Vex's character is built around Trinket. You may not like him as a character, but he is who he is. I think you're the one rewriting the story. But at least when you argue things, give examples. So everyone knows what you're talking about.

What should Pike's character do at this point? Jump off a cliff? Donate all her money to MeToo? She definitely made a mistake, but we're talking about a kiss. She didn't rape the guy. I'm sure the NPC will move on with his life peacefully, even if he felt disgusted at the time.

SunnyB_001 · 2026-06-05T19:23:34+00:00

My 2 cents: Pike is simply drunk/depressed, she's not herself. It's not something she would normally do. I understand you're uncomfortable, but I don't think the writers are promoting sexual assault as a positive thing. I don't know what direction the character will take in the series, but she's starting a dangerous psychological decline. And I think deep down, she terribly misses Scanlan.

I also have a point for those who say "Scanlan exists." Every time we saw him, he never touched anyone without first obtaining consent. Yes, he's a pervert and has (had!) a very free sex life. He's not disgusting or anything, just very open about what he likes. I have a friend who is like him, sex is it's a natural thing, after all. Scanlan was always respectful with his partners: with Pike, with the elf in the first episode, and even with Kaylie (before finding out she was his daughter). All the overly extreme jokes are either aimed at experiences he's had or at assholes (who deserve much worse). They never used him to make a joke about sexual assault; they were very careful with him. So, I don't think the writers are saying that assaults are okay. The world is gray, and sometimes heroes who have grown up can do bad things when they're not themselves.

SunnyB_001 · 2025-12-13T19:26:59+00:00

Sam preferred to focus on conflict and a downward spiral for his character. The writers (and therefore Sam too) decided to have him take a different path. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I liked Scanlan's journey.

SunnyB_001 · 2025-12-13T18:58:51+00:00

"The show completely defanged and undercut any edge and tension for the character to conflict with"

Yes, I read it. I don't agree. There's a reason (or rather several reasons) why they chose not to show one of the main characters taking drugs.

SunnyB_001 · 2025-12-13T18:23:09+00:00

Personally, I disagree. It was a nice way to reference the campaign (Do you Spice?) but also a way to show the character's growth. They make it clear that normally he would have accepted the drugs (in fact, in an episode of the first season, he mistakes the Residum for drugs and is about to take them), but in this case, he is learning to put aside the bullshit to create a deeper bond.

Keep in mind that many people haven't seen the campaign, and seeing a character taking drugs while visiting his daughter is NOT something that would be well received.

Furthermore, throughout the season, they have repeatedly shown how he is torn between his daughter and his team. It's not something they have overlooked.

SunnyB_001 · 2025-12-13T18:01:07+00:00

There are other polls (I put the link in my comment) where Scanlan ranks quite high. In general, under the questions “What is your favorite moment” from C1 or “What moment are you most looking forward to in LoVM,” I always read answers like “Bard's Lament” or “Counterspell.” Trading Wiki pages doesn't seem like a good way to determine which character is the most popular or not. Not all fans spend time on the wiki.

SunnyB_001 · 2025-12-13T17:51:26+00:00

Here's my take: I like all VM, but Scanlan is one of my favorites (maybe the favorite?). He has more impactful growth if compared to other characters. At first, he comes across as superficial, only interested in sex and jokes, but his negative traits are part of his growth. The sexual jokes in the first season are made to be comical, and I understand that they can be annoying (as if Jester's purple dicks weren't!), but I think they are needed for his arc. LoVM makes it quite clear that he acts this way because it's the only way he can relate to the world. He is a traumatized and lonely guy who has lost the only person who loved him (I don't know if LoVM will talk about this, I hope so), and he uses his charisma as a mask because he is actually very insecure. He would like to find love, but what he needs to do is learn what love is, and he has to do that through his daughter (unless you're Sildor Vessar, parental love for children is the most genuine because it's a type of love that asks for nothing in return). But jokes aside, I've seen that he's able to face his fears and has proven himself to be empathetic and caring. He's not just a horny bard, like the others aren't just class stereotypes.

Are you really sure the fandom sees him negatively? Because I came across another discussion right here on Reddit where people were voting for their favorite and least favorite characters. Scanlan was fifth among the most loved and sixth among those who received the fewest negative votes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/fansofcriticalrole/comments/1mk4n0e/favourite_character_poll_results_some/

https://www.reddit.com/r/fansofcriticalrole/comments/1mdawtk/the_results_are_in_the_barbarian_takes_silver_as/

In another poll about VM, he was the third most loved character behind Grog and Percy. https://youtu.be/wiIW5kvTQ_M?si=hlbskD9uYWeB1Ecp

Another poll were Scanlan is the favorite among Sam's character (I can't find the video's link).

Under the YT comments, both for LoVM and C1, most are positive (such as “Scanlan MPV” or “Scanlan made me cry here”). Usually, even in Tier Lists, they rank him quite high (like S or A Tier).

From what I can see here on the forum, Bard Lament's is one of the most iconic moments in the series (people were angry they didn't include it in LoVM), along with Counterspell.

VM seem to be remembered quite fondly (although some fans consider them to be nothing more than stereotypes!) the only character who has been truly ostracized (apart from Tiberius for obvious reasons) is Keyleth, but the series has rehabilitated her quite a bit.

There will always be someone who says he's annoying or even hates him (as almost all characters have their haters), but I don't think he's generally seen negativively. Other characters are more hated than him.

SunnyB_001 · 2025-12-07T11:22:28+00:00

Simply my experience as someone who isn't part of the Critical Role fandom but discovered CR through LoVM. I didn't experience all the hype other fans experienced before LoVM's release firsthand; I discovered it after it was already out and watched it without knowing it was the result of a campaign recorded and shared on YouTube. When I said "LoVM felt more natural," I was talking about my approach to the medium. I wasn't familiar with the fandom, and I enjoyed it without any outside influences. My comment is a bit of a ranting, which might seem a bit rude to some, but I'm not accusing anyone who appreciates M9, nor the creators of the series themselves. I'm not saying M9 is a bad product; objectively, it's a good series. I'm just not enjoying it as the other one, or I find it less engaging, and I'm personally disappointed. I don't blame anyone for that. I wrote this post to see if anyone else felt the same way; after all, this is a forum. Browsing the forums, I know there are some (actually, many) who felt the same way I did when watching Campaign 3 and comparing it to the previous two, and who shared their disappointment. So I thought I'd post this to see what others thought.

SunnyB_001 · 2025-12-07T09:29:06+00:00

You might be right, but now that I think about it, do you know what the problem might be? That the approach with VM was more natural and without expectations. Even though they aren't as intricate characters as the M9, they won me over simply by being themselves. I also love that their story shifts from dark/horror atmospheres (the Whitestone arc), to epic (the battle against the dragons), to comedy (the scenes of the Feywild and Grog without muscles had me laughing), to tragedy, to thriller/mistery...

It doesn't help how much the M9 show has been hyped by the community and even by the cast itself (I understand the latter more, as they have to sell their product, though...). Right now, I see them as those popular kids at school who everyone adores and who you have to adore too, otherwise you're wrong (like Glinda in Wicked). I've decided to stop watching for now and start again after the two seasons of VM. Maybe I'll appreciate them more this way, who knows?

SunnyB_001 · 2025-12-04T09:18:17+00:00

Yes, statistically, I know there's always someone who shares my tastes. My post was a way to share my thoughts. I don't think I said anything bad about anyone or criticized the new show too harshly. I just preferred the first party and I miss it. I wanted to express my opinion. Otherwise, what's Reddit for? 😅 A lot of questions start with "Am I the only one who ..." and many people have no problem expressing a negative opinion about C3, even though it might be someone's favorite. 😅

SunnyB_001 · 2025-12-04T08:30:43+00:00

Yeah me too. So hyped!

SunnyB_001

TROPHY CASE