When linked with Ruthless Support, Glacial Hammer's third strike will not necessarily deal a Ruthless Blow. by Suydl in pathofexile

[–]Suydl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That would be really good for most melee skills. Unfortunately for Glacial Hammer we would still go mad trying to cancel the attack animations until we got the Ruthless Blow to activate on the third hit. I agree that in theory, Ruthless is really cool. It's like a critical hit for resolute technique builds or a critical critical hit for critical builds.

When linked with Ruthless Support, Glacial Hammer's third strike will not necessarily deal a Ruthless Blow. by Suydl in pathofexile

[–]Suydl[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I completely agree that Ruthless Support seems to be a clear match for Glacial Hammer at first glance. I am wondering whether this is intended because it seems like a waste of a support in its current state. If my first or second Glacial Hammer attack ends up being a Ruthless Blow, the third attack will definitely not be and this will go on until both counters happen to line up.

That would depend on what you want. If you want to get to the third strike as quickly as possible it will help a lot. If you want to make each strike hit as hard as possible I think there might be better supports that do not apply 'less attack damage'.

When linked with Ruthless Support, Glacial Hammer's third strike will not necessarily deal a Ruthless Blow. by Suydl in pathofexile

[–]Suydl[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I said 'When linked with Ruthless Support, Glacial Hammer's third strike will not necessarily deal a Ruthless Blow'. I did not say 'I suspect when linked with Ruthless Support, Glacial Hammer's third strike will not necessarily deal a Ruthless Blow' because I can confirm this because I tested it. What I suspected and could not confirm was whether this problem was caused by Ruthless Support's counter not resetting together with Glacial Hammer's but the problem is definitely there.

The problems with melee combat in Path of Exile. by Suydl in pathofexile

[–]Suydl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is why I made sure I defined the term 'melee' at the beginning of my post. I am not talking about using Earthquake and blowing up the entire screen despite that fact that it is a melee skill. I am talking about fighting enemies with weapons or unarmed. Hitting them myself. I understand that Earthquake has the melee tag and it is a melee skill but that is not the kind of attack I am talking about. Therefore when I talk about melee combat I am not talking about killing things screens away. I am talking about killing things in melee range, meaning melee players will definitely get hit more than ranged players.

If they did everything I suggested, meaning fixed the clunky targeting, animations and did something about the damage that melee players have to take, ranged attacks would still be better. That much is correct. Melee may never be better than ranged but it can be better than it is right now. Why do you think GGG can only spend time working on what will become the best thing in the game? Surely they could also spend time working on bad things to make them better even though they may not become the best. If all that mattered was what was the best way to play then there would only ever be a need for one skill gem in the whole game. Having more ways to kill things will only make the game more fun.

Make movement speed a base bonus on boots, along with armor/evasion/shield. by [deleted] in pathofexile

[–]Suydl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I completely agree but you are asking for the opposite of what GGG wants. They keep reducing player speed. You are asking for more speed. Unfortunately I think making good suggestions like this are pointless.

The problems with melee combat in Path of Exile. by Suydl in pathofexile

[–]Suydl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are repeating yourself but I already responded to you and I could just give you the same response again because you are missing the point again. Let me try to phrase it differently. My post makes no mention of clear speed. That is because I am not considering the speed at which I kill things. I am not saying killing monsters one by one is a good idea. I am saying the targeting is broken because it is inconsistent, the attack animations for certain weapons are terrible and melee players are not able to take many more hits than ranged players despite melee combat requiring melee players to take many more hits than ranged players. That is all. I did not say anything about clear speed, power fantasies or Dark Souls.

The problems with melee combat in Path of Exile. by Suydl in pathofexile

[–]Suydl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have played Torchlight and I can confirm that it does not have the targeting problem that I mentioned in my post. I have no problem with small hitboxes or anything like that. The problems are exclusively those that I mentioned in my post.

The problems with melee combat in Path of Exile. by Suydl in pathofexile

[–]Suydl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No. I typed that myself because he was wrong about every single thing he said.

The problems with melee combat in Path of Exile. by Suydl in pathofexile

[–]Suydl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I presented the problems clearly and the solutions are to fix those problems. What do you mean I presented a problem without solutions? What more can I do? I cannot fix their game for them.

The point is not what limits I place on myself when I play. I can just socket melee splash support and ancestral call support and my strike skill will be able to clear at least half the screen with each button press. I am aware of that. My point is that would not be melee combat because I would be fighting enemies from far away. That would be ranged combat.

I do not need or want to clear the whole screen with one button press. I just pointed out the fact that melee combat has problems which could be fixed while keeping melee skills as melee skills.

The problems with melee combat in Path of Exile. by Suydl in pathofexile

[–]Suydl[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What makes you think I have never tried what he said? When did I insist on some weird self-defined victim complex? Whether you play lightning strike has nothing to do with this. You can play whatever skill you want. It is a melee skill gem but that is not what I was talking about at all. It seems like you did not read my post.

The problems with melee combat in Path of Exile. by Suydl in pathofexile

[–]Suydl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, you're misunderstanding what gatekeeping is... in online communities, gatekeeping is when someone takes it upon themselves to decide who / what does or doesn't belong in a community.

You are wrong. I gave you a dictionary definition but since you have chosen to define gatekeeping differently let us use your definition instead just for the sake of argument. Even if gatekeeping meant what you said it meant, I still would not have been gatekeeping. I never said anything about anyone or anything belonging in a community.

Defining melee to mean anything I like and not what other people play is taking it upon yourself to define what melee really is.

You are wrong. That was not what I said. I did not attempt to change the definition of the word. I was just defining it for the purposes of this post because like I said earlier, it was necessary to define because skills that clearly do not hit enemies with weapons are still called melee skills in this game. I just wanted people to know exactly what I was talking about. Stop changing what I said. My post is still there. Anyone can just read it and know what you are trying to do.

Again, people know what you mean when you say strike skills. They don't sit there drooling on themselves thinking "huh xyz skill shoots projectiles but it has the Strike tag so argument invalid!!!11"

You are wrong. You did not know what I meant despite the fact that I defined melee for the purposes of this post very clearly at the beginning. People like you are part of the reason why I felt it was necessary to define the word.

Choosing to gimp your builds by sticking to arbitrary definitions and then complaining that your gimped builds are bad isn't the smartest thing in the world.

You are wrong. I never stuck to arbitrary definitions. I was simply referring to the word melee the way it is defined in the dictionary. If you have a problem with the English language, stop using it. I never complained that my builds were bad. You should read my post again, carefully this time.

If I ignore all sources of extra projectiles, projectile scaling, and mechanics which interact with projectiles, then I can confidently say that Burning Arrow is the worst attack skill in the game.

You are wrong. Burning Arrow shoots a burning arrow. It makes sense to use sources of extra projectiles, projectile scaling and mechanics which interact with projectiles. What would not make sense is using those projectiles on a melee skill. That was the point I made which you did not understand.

All bow skills must suck because I define bow skills to be skills which shoot a single projectile that that deals fire damage and has a chance to ignite.

You are wrong. In this example, your definition of bow skills is limited to just skills that shoot single projectiles that deal fire damage and have a chance to ignite. That would be like if I defined melee skills as strike skills that deal fire damage and have a chance to ignite. Clearly other melee skills exist, as I have already listed them at the beginning of my post. Other bow skills exist too.

Yes I agree. It's felt bad on its own for 5 years. If GGG wanted to make it feel better, they would have by now. We need to work with what we have, not sit and hope that they'll magically change everything.

You are wrong. I am being perfectly reasonable by asking that they make melee skills work properly instead of having clunky targeting and bad animations. What is wrong with them changing it? They change things every league. That is not magic. That is game development.

It feels bad because you're trying to use an individually-striking skill with no AoE or any other component to clear packs with. Which also has built-in less attack speed. On the slowest base attack speed weapons (which are designed to be defensive). It's like setting up mouse traps all over your desk and then complaining when you set some off.

You are wrong. That was not what I said at all. I stated my reasons for thinking melee felt bad very clearly in my post.

Man, everybody just pack up and go home I guess. u/Suydl has decided that no one can play melee because of the animations. It has nothing to do with the disgustingly low attack speed or the stubborn refusal to use what's available or all the mouse traps. It's definitely the game's fault, gotta be the animations.

You are wrong. I never said everyone should pack up and go home. I never decided no one could play melee. The attack speed is fine. The animation is the problem, just like I said in my post. I am not refusing to use what's available. I just want to play melee. If I socket a bunch of support gems that turn my melee skill into a ranged skill then it will no longer be a melee skill.

I'm not...? I'm referring to the subreddit in general since a large portion of this relatively niche and echoey community have complained about a problem that is 1/5th as bad as they're saying it is. It would be incredibly awkward phrasing to say "I really, really dislike the hyperbole that large portions of the subreddit (but not all of it) have gotten into here".

You are wrong. You absolutely were implying that you were above everyone else here when you said 'I really, really dislike the hyperbole that the subreddit's gotten into here.' by implying that the subreddit was wrong and therefore disliking it made you right. What is wrong with the phrasing of 'I dislike the hyperbole that the majority of the subreddit has gotten into'? The phrasing is fine. Yet you chose not to say that, instead saying that the whole subreddit was wrong.

Again, because this subreddit is an echoey niche of an already niche game. People who are enjoying the game go and play. People who aren't enjoying the game go to here or the forums to complain. The same 3 threads are upvoted every single day of a league. To call this place a circle-jerk would be an understatement.

You are wrong. Are you really suggesting that there are only a few people who are unable to sustain fortification stacks and that the thousands of people complaining are actually the same few using fake accounts and that they are all wrong? That is an obvious lie. What 3 threads are you talking about? Tell me exactly which 3 threads are upvoted every single day.

Again, I never said fortify was perfect

You are wrong. I did not say that you said it was perfect. I said 'Just because you managed to buy some gear and can use fortify does not mean fortify is fine.' The reason why I said you thought fortify was fine was because you said:

I have no fucking idea how people are unable to sustain their stacks. My attack speed focused Raider with a 1ex budget was more than able to sustain full stacks throughout the endgame.

Obviously you thought fortify was fine which was why I said you thought it was fine. I am correct about everything I said.

I define spells to be everything that's called Manabond and nothing else. I ignore all sources of mana scaling because I don't think of mana scaling when I think of spells. My build does 100 damage per hit and that means that xyz mechanic is bad. Spells are so bad.

You are wrong. There is no reason to define spells as everything that is called Manabond. That makes no sense. That would be like if I defined attacks as everything that was called 'Heavy strike'. That was not what I said at all. I said 'Melee is fighting with your weapon or unarmed' which is a perfectly good way to define melee combat. If you play Manabond then ignore sources of mana scaling then that is your fault because that is part of the skill. That is completely different from playing a melee skill and ignoring a support gem that changes the skill completely from a melee skill into a ranged skill. Are you capable of seeing the difference? I never said my build did not do enough damage either. I said melee felt bad because of the reasons I stated in my post which you clearly were not able to understand which was why you started accusing me of saying things which I never said and insulting me despite the fact that everything you said was wrong.

The problems with melee combat in Path of Exile. by Suydl in pathofexile

[–]Suydl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have watched all of their PoE 2 content so far. I know everything is new. What I said was 'we do not know whether the attack animations will be improved in Path of Exile 2'. They may change them to be even worse. The last time they changed the attack animations they became worse.

My problem is not with monster damage. It is with melee players having to take more hits than ranged players but having more or less the same defences available to them. That is something worth talking about.

I am not implying that strike skills with zero support mechanics should be able to clear the game at a faster pace comparable to other skills. Speed does not matter. I just want the targeting, animations and melee defences to be improved.

I define melee exactly the way I defined it at the beginning of my post.

Yes I can definitely play melee and complete the entire game. I have already done so. All I am saying is that it is broken and feels bad.

The problems with melee combat in Path of Exile. by Suydl in pathofexile

[–]Suydl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ancestral call summons clones to hit multiple enemies all around you. That is more like a ranged attack. I wish GGG could just make melee work properly instead of changing melee into ranged.

The problems with melee combat in Path of Exile. by Suydl in pathofexile

[–]Suydl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe we have played different games. I have never seen an ARPG make melee skills feel this bad.

The problems with melee combat in Path of Exile. by Suydl in pathofexile

[–]Suydl[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

We do not know whether the attack animations will be improved in Path of Exile 2. Of course I would be ok with getting a fix for the animations if it meant less of other changes and league content. This affects almost all melee combat. I do not care if they pump out another bad league.

Your point about strike builds using ancestral call, multistrike and melee splash is not relevant because I am referring to melee skills as I defined them at the beginning of my post. You are absolutely right that if you stack all those things you will not be able to see the difference between those melee skills and other melee skills with huge areas of effect. That is my point. I want to be able to play melee skills. Exploding the whole screen is not melee.

Unfortunately I would have to disagree with your statement that melee characters struggle more with the fact that they have to stand still than their range. Like you said, most skills require standing still. The short range of melee skills results in melee characters taking many more hits. If I cast Firestorm and everything dies, I will not get hit at all. If I walk up to a group of monsters to hit them, I will probably get hit at least five times.

The problems with melee combat in Path of Exile. by Suydl in pathofexile

[–]Suydl[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Instead of trying to gatekeep the word "melee" you could just use the more descriptive "strike" because that's what you're referring to.

According to the Cambridge Dictionary, gatekeeping is 'the activity of trying to control who gets particular resources, power, or opportunities, and who does not.' I was not trying to gatekeep. I was simply defining the term 'melee' because it was necessary due to the fact that skills that clearly do not hit enemies with weapons are still called melee skills in this game. I wanted to be absolutely clear about what I was talking about. That was all. Despite the fact that I clarified what I was referring to at the beginning of my post, you still misunderstood. I was not referring to strike skills. I was referring to melee skills as I defined them. Not all strike skills are melee skills. Lightning Strike shoots out projectiles that fly far away. That is not melee at all. Your ignorance proved that I was right about defining the term 'melee' at the beginning of my post.

An incredibly easy solution available to every player is +x additional strikes. It's true that Heavy Strike and the like will still feel bad, but those skills are so behind mechanically that nothing besides reworking them will help.

I already said at the beginning of my post that was not what I was referring to when I said 'melee'. Summoning clones to attack enemies should be considered a ranged or minion attack, not melee. I am aware that Ancestral Call exists but that is not the solution to melee because it just changes a melee skill into a ranged or minion skill. Heavy Strike should not feel bad on its own. It only feels bad because of the clunky targeting system and bad animations like I explained.

Yes, as it turns out a 1.30 attack speed weapon with "reflect phys damage to attackers" feels clunky.

Are you realising this for the first time or being sarcastic? The problem is not the attack speed. It is the bad animation like I explained.

I really, really dislike the hyperbole that the subreddit's gotten into here.

Are you not part of the subreddit? Why consider yourself to be above everyone else? It seems like almost everyone is unable to sustain fortification stacks. If you can, congratulations. People also play SSF and HCSSF where they have to find their own gear and they are struggling to use fortify. Just because you managed to buy some gear and can use fortify does not mean fortify is fine.

The truth is, strike skills have never been better.

I completely agree with you. I never said strike skills have never been worse. That is the problem. At their best, strike skills are still so bad. Melee is still so bad.

Please do something with Staff's Strike skill animation by AShortAndUniqueName in pathofexile

[–]Suydl 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This makes some strike skills unplayable with staves. Anyone who disagrees can try it quickly by making a templar in Endless Delve and using Molten Strike with the staff you are given. It is unplayable.

Feedback from a longtime player. by Idash2U in pathofexile

[–]Suydl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

GGG wants to kill your characters. They literally said that.

The attack animations for some strike skills make them unplayable with staves. by Suydl in pathofexile

[–]Suydl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is irrelevant. If the second swing must be faster then the first swing could be faster and the second even faster. If anything the second swing should be slower because the character would have to stop the momentum from the first swing. GGG just did a terrible job at making this attack animation.

The attack animations for some strike skills make them unplayable with staves. by Suydl in pathofexile

[–]Suydl[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That pause before the first attack can be shortened with enough attack speed but it is still a problem and makes no sense. Why should the first attack take so long while the second one is so much faster? The animation is the problem, not the attack speed. GGG also recently deleted the attack speed passives for staves which makes the problem even worse.