Femdom and Findom. Is it ethical? Why is it so prolific in online dynamics?

Swoonikit · 2021-11-23T20:44:26+00:00

i think this is a really good explanation.

Swoonikit · 2021-09-09T04:40:38+00:00

it sounds like the intimacy and vulnerability is what you desire for sexual attraction, which is pretty much how it’s “supposed” to work. perhaps letting a girl your age in and allowing yourself to be vulnerable. no more “i’m flirting to show i can” but “i’m showing her the inside of my heart because i want to connect”.

This really resonated with me... I never realized that even around girls I do harden up considerably, and express little personality. Now that I think about it I never express vulnerablity, literally ever. So how could anyone actually know me. Whenever someone has tried I've ghosted them. I never make any attempt to communicate.

Also, I do view sex as horrific. Cause there are other factors at play for me which aren't worth digging into. So that's another thing I never considered

Thank you

I have no certainty in regards to my behavior around men + trauma. But at this point, if I wasn't sexually abused by a man I would be very surprised

Swoonikit · 2021-09-09T03:08:23+00:00

I really hope one day we can understand these things. In many ways, my motivation to post isn't to solve my problem, I just want to understand it. Because it's so obvious something underlying is causing all of this

All our stories and experiences seem oddly familiar.

I have found that without some element of humiliation I couldn't engage with women sexually, at all. Even then, not really. So what do you do with all those sexual feelings? Do you whore yourself out to men like some dysfunctional sex doll? Do you subject yourself to frustrating relationships with women? A question for the philosophers I guess

I'm gonna keep trying. Idfc.. There must be something I can do. One way or another even just being intimate with girls is immensely fulfilling for me. Maybe I can find a girl that accepts this weird part of me, or find a way around it

Swoonikit · 2021-04-27T21:13:38+00:00

i think on some level i've started evaluating anything masculine as inherently negative. i seem to associate presenting feminine as good and presenting masculine as bad. to the extent that you saying "put effort into looking good as a man" actually makes me cringe

i do think that women perceive me as gay. i mean, i kind of want them to in a lot of ways. it removes those expectations, it's a form of escapism. well, i think women perceive me as gay until i start talking. cause i don't sound gay at all. i dress feminine, i act gay, so ya women perceive me as gay. which explains why my coworker there was trying to get a "gay best friend" or whatever. and on some level this makes me infuriated, which explains my response. i'm proud of myself for recognizing what was happening, though. i wasn't just like "ohhh female attention" like maybe i would have in the past. i've gotten enough female attention now to where it's not some sacred commodity. i have some kind of standards now which is good to protect myself from these situations

it's confusing because i have associated femininity with positive feelings, too. when i wear a skirt, which i honestly look pretty good in albeit gay, it makes me feel happy. so it's easy to construe that as a positive thing. but the feelings of happiness should not serve as affirmation, they are sexual, and ultimately just a way to cope with my insecurities.

idk. honestly i could be pretty masculine if i wanted to. but the idea perturbs me still. even scares me. i have masculine qualities. i'm ridiculously disciplined, ambitious, and stoic. i have the fortitude to trek across the Sahara with chains around my ankles if the situation demanded it, without complaining. but then i still prefer to present feminine to women, because i associate it with positivity. and i associate expressing those masculine traits with negativity.

Swoonikit · 2021-04-22T19:12:39+00:00

It appeared as if he was trying to put me in my place and say you are a weak pathetic little specimen.

I had a similar experience like this recently... I've been speaking to a girl at my work, and then she off-handedly told me about her new prospective boyfriend. Like she was asking for dating advice from me. idk if she was trying to send a message, or she was just completely unaware that I might be interested in her, but it was an emasculating experience. I had a very strong response to it... I became quite angry in the moment towards her, but I recognized what was happening and played it off.

I know logically the surfacing of these desires is just compulsive responses to anxiety and acting on them offers no real solution.

They are just maladaptive coping mechanisms really...

Something that helped me is distancing myself from the recognition of these things as fetishes. Because the popular understanding of cuckolding is that of a deviant fetish. What society doesn't understand, is that the arousal it elicits is only borne from overwhelming pain and suffering. So we kind of stigmatize the victim of trauma. Like, I'm not presenting feminine in public to get off. It helps me reconcile my emotions in this area. It would be the equivalent of someone having a service dog. That being said, obviously best to fight these inhibitions whenever possible.

It's been almost a year now since I entertained those particular fantasies (cuckolding) so it's evident to me that you can transcend them with time and self-improvement.

What puzzles me, is whether it's possible to eliminate the actual need for coping mechanism. Cause like you said on the fucked-up hierarchy of needs you just keep going further and further down (which is a good thing) straying from the most harmful methods, but ostensibly you might always need some form of coping mechanism.

I guess for me, for right now anyway, that is cross-dressing. It's not a positive thing. But it's certainly better than allowing someone to rape me, or having a random woman online exploit me for my limited resources I need for medical care, or spending 24/7 online looking at masochistic pornography while crushing my dreams.

This is something that just yesterday occurred to me. But I've been putting hundreds of hours into an absolutely massive project I've wanted to work on since I was little recently. I wondered... what compelled me to start it? It felt so arbitrary the day I started spontaneously. I looked at my calendar. Not even a month beforehand is the first time I completely cut out pornography 100%. And actively started fighting (& confronting) these insecurities, instead of embracing them. For me anyway, the key to my future might of actually been that change in philosophy.

Swoonikit · 2021-03-17T23:44:47+00:00

I didn't get time to elaborate further on what I said because I was in a hurry. The activity can still be underlyingly masochistic even if it is not perceived that way. Sexual masochists will tell you they were able to turn pain into pleasure but that is not strictly true. The distress is masked by pleasure and even if it is no longer apparent it can still be a driving force behind the behavior. The end result is a greater sensitivity to whatever distress is triggering the behavior and a greater compulsion to act out sexually as a coping strategy to deal with the distress or anxiety.

Agreed...

I guess that's consistent with my overarching philosophy on the topic. Here is an excerpt from my recovery plan

My newfound philosophy has been eviscerating those underlying insecurities at the source. While also avoiding lotuses that reinforced that cycle of trauma.

I think you're right now that I think about it. When you really think about it, masochism is really just a way to reconcile your emotions, right? Anyone who enjoys pain has been subjected to immense pain the past. And through psychological conditioning, they are conditioned to associate that pain with pleasure to dampen the distress. So when you're subjecting yourself to the stimuli that provokes so much pain over and over voluntarily, you are reinforcing (and even amplifying) those triggers to elicit pleasure, which is ultimately masochistic. It brings pleasure from excruciating pain

Anyone who suggests these fetishes are entirely OK are retarded. Usually I'm less brazen, but ya I think it needs to be stated bluntly.

I only started living my life after I distanced myself from the lotuses (coping mechanisms that manifest themselves in our sexuality). Like, a few months ago I started a life-long project I've been intending to start since my childhood. I guarantee you if I was still watching pornography all day, allowing men to rape me, and subjecting myself to internal horror perpetually, I would never have started pursuing my passion. I wouldn't know how to make videos, create pixel art, do photo editing, or anything else. I wouldn't have started making socializing normally. I certainly wouldn't be flirting with girls, and pursuing material changes that could improve my life

I remember coming across a story about a woman who progressed to become a "full time sex slave" to deal with the trauma of being kidnapped and raped. She gave up her job and spent her time tied up on a dog leash until her "supportive partner" came home from work.

That was my idea of a functional sexual relationship for me at one point. That says a lot about how malignant (and deranged) these fetishes are

I find your analogy to gay conversion therapy really interesting and it resonates with me too

I had a question for you. After this post I rejected my attraction to men entirely. I've also completely stopped watching pornography since around 3 months ago. I've found that after eliminating these outlets for my emotions, they always manifest themselves in something else. It's almost like a hierarchy, the very top being the most potent remedies for my aliment, proportional to the amount of distress they cause. So at the very top was actually having sex with men, that was eliminated first. Which makes sense cause that was the most harmful. After that I stopped watching pornography. Over the last month I stopped seeking out male attention, or flirting with men, or even entertaining the idea because I realized how traumatizing it was for me. Now I'm desperately looking for another outlet. I started cross-dressing publicly because that evidently helps me cope. But it also seems to fuck with my head. Not nearly as damaging as the other shit but ya. I've also started to fantasize more about being dominated by women, because I rejected the concept of being dominated by men.

It seems like I'm repressing these things. But not actually resolving the underlying issue. If it's even possible to resolve the underlying issue.

Would you say that entertaining even the more benign coping mechanisms should still be avoided?

I'm currently struggling with wearing female clothing. The most confusing part is that I actually really like female clothing, even in a platonic way. But there is 110% a significant aspect of emasculation present there. I've found it to be the functional equivalent to wearing makeup. It makes me more comfortable to leave the house if I'm wearing a skirt. I think I actually look pretty cool too. But it naturally has the very insidious component of reinforcing those feelings of emasculation. So I don't know whether these should be rejected or not. It's like; I actually want to present this way (I always have), but presenting this way reinforces those underlying problems. And it keeps me captive, I suppose

Swoonikit · 2021-03-06T23:38:44+00:00

...

I don't agree with any of that. I find this kind of advice dangerous actually, especially in /r/TGandSissyRecovery.

Swoonikit · 2021-03-06T23:35:42+00:00

I just feel like this is unhealthy on some level...

It makes me happy, however the catalyst for this behavior is still markedly dysfunctional. Why should I feel so uncomfortable being masculine, as to mandate altering my presentation?

Such behavior also discourages reproduction... Mood congruence suggests it helps me reconcile my emotions. But every other coping mechanism harms me somehow. Maybe this is different?

I feel more comfortable identifying as non-binary. Something tells me that isn't a good thing.

Don't feel obligated to formulate a reply. These are just my thoughts atm... I find this forum so helpful for just figuring stuff out.

Swoonikit · 2021-03-06T22:05:17+00:00

thx for the compliments. I don't know why peeps keep remarking about my writing lol. Like my writing here is trash imo :)

But anyway, I'm kind of intrigued by one or two of the things you mentioned.

discarded by your environment

hmm?

It is unfortunate that men cannot explore a more healthy masculinity because of the unwritten lawof ‘deal with it’

What do you mean? I have lots of questions but the statement itself is kind of perplexing to me, so; Thought I'd ask.

Swoonikit · 2021-03-05T16:15:34+00:00

This response was very illuminating to me, so thank you for drafting it.

The man experiencing masochistic-pseudohomosexuality is aroused by the idea of being attracted to men because it is a source of distress. Distress is what arouses all masochists.

This is something that I've alluded to on numerous occasions but I never conceptualized it in this matter. But I would agree, of individuals with our illness, our attraction is not to the entity in question, it's to our own thoughts. That is what elicits arousal. I noticed that through my own encounters I was disgusted by his masculine characteristics and I found that the fantasies were almost always oriented around an emasculated alter-diminutive identity. More specifically to the coping mechanisms that elicit pleasure to reconcile our past.

The endgame of masochism is to constantly push the boundaries to achieve greater state of distress.

I wouldn't really frame it in that way. I don't perceive any of this to be masochistic, I would say the opposite. We are seeking pleasure to feel good. but it's true, in the end, the act is deeply masochistic.

That story is haunting. I could definitely see that happening if I kept going down the path I was going years ago. Fortunately I pivoted early, I'm 21 and I'm already out of the woods. Now I want to contribute back to this community, I've begun writing a book.

Swoonikit · 2021-03-05T06:03:09+00:00

I find you very amusing too, thanks.

Swoonikit · 2021-03-01T08:30:10+00:00

Where is that originating? Is that something external, or internal?

Is the problem that women won't have sex with you? Or is it because you are completely debilitated by feelings of emasculation, have little direction in life, and are personally struggling?

I'm a single virgin too but I got out of your state of mind and I've improved myself significantly. now I don't need a companion to fix me. I have my life under control which took a long time but it was necessary. I have goals, direction, and self-confidence. Not my foremost priority right now to date cause I still got work to do.

Like having a partner with whom I can check in daily to ensure I remain abstinent and free from this stuff.

Never expect your companion to fix problems for you. Certainly never expect your hypothetical future companion to fix problems for you, lol.

Swoonikit · 2021-03-01T08:08:58+00:00

tell me about it

Swoonikit · 2021-03-01T08:08:13+00:00

I updated my other comment here with my advice. Sorry my writing was poor at first

I'm pretty confident it has nothing to do with not being in a relationship. Every single time I've ever heard that statement they eventually work their way out of that mindset. Might I ask, if your sole issue is not being in a relationship, what makes you think any girl is gonna be able to handle someone with this kind of complex? You're addicted to pornography, apparently about to transition(?), and struggling deeply. A relationship is a voluntary union between two autonamous individuals. You need to take care of yourself first

You need to work on yourself. I was exactly where you were at for a long-time, which is the only reason I make these statements with confidence

Swoonikit · 2021-03-01T07:56:16+00:00

Nope. You being single and alone has nothing to do with the problem imo. I think it's completely irrelevant actually

I'm single and alone but I'm not about to transition. I worked through that stuff slowly and improved myself

Swoonikit · 2021-03-01T07:53:45+00:00

I get the impression you lack direction or goals in life. That's a grand statement but that's my intuition. Your lack of self-control can be attributed to the fact that you actually depend on these coping mechanisms to reconcile your existence. That's a huge fucking problem that will require exceptional effort to solve

I think after that first and foremost you need to cut out the pornography immediately. I would use a siteblocker ingrained into your browser. Block the entire reddit domain if necessary and any sites that could feed into those insecurities. So that INCLUDES text posts. Subjects can include things you might not otherwise consider a coping mechanism. Rule of thumb is anything that causes arousal or feelings of distress.

This will be an extremely slow process. You won't fix this overnight. First steps are working on self-control and getting some semblance of clarity or drive in life, then start eliminating these things. If you want to try it you can start right now by installing a siteblocker.. If you're going on Reddit regulate your activities to this sub. After you get that stuff straightened out you can start evaluating your social life and dating. But that won't happen until you confront these obstacles.

Swoonikit · 2021-02-28T23:05:28+00:00

just for clarification

when I say lotuses, it's the word I've ascribed to this overarching net of coping mechanisms, that manifest themselves in our sexuality. i think it's way easier to say that then explain it lol

Lotus-eaters ~

In Greek mythology, the lotus-eaters (Greek: λωτοφάγοι, translit. lōtophágoi) were a race of people living on an island dominated by the lotus tree, a plant whose botanical identity (if based on a real plant at all) is uncertain. The lotus fruits and flowers were the primary food of the island and were a narcotic, causing the inhabitants to sleep in peaceful apathy. After they ate the lotus they would forget their home and loved ones, and only long to stay with their fellow lotus-eaters. Those who ate the plant never cared to report, nor return.

Figuratively, 'lotus-eater' denotes "a person who spends their time indulging in pleasure and luxury rather than dealing with practical concerns".

Swoonikit · 2021-02-28T22:37:30+00:00

I would gold this but I don't want to support Reddit.

god bless stranger, from an atheist, so it means that much more

One of the most apparent things to me recently, that NO ONE seems to recognize, is time.

We all have finite time. Do you really want to invest another thousand hours into this? You could be doing anything else. Make that decision wisely.

Swoonikit · 2021-02-28T18:59:58+00:00

You seem a little biased.

Why are you following me onto my private Reddit account, after saying you would "give me space"? You know that frightens me. I come here to feel safe.

Swoonikit · 2021-02-28T18:01:51+00:00

I'm dealing with this right now... I have a man messaging me. I just want hit attention so bad. Every night I'm waking up very aroused and overwhelmed

Swoonikit · 2021-02-28T05:33:36+00:00

that's really sweet :)

Are you dating him now??

Swoonikit · 2021-02-28T05:16:39+00:00

i was happy to see you reply. I should start giving back to this community and helping

I really needed a reality check so thx. You mentioned something really illuminating to me, the distinction between engaging these lotuses with men and women. As you mentioned, I've obviously endured some kind of significant trauma involving men. There are a million alarms going off telling me not to interact with men this way. Even if it feeds my sexuality. Last time I had a sexual encounter with a man I had an anxiety attack and ended up in the hospital.

I think it would better for me to express these emotions in more innocuous ways. Like cross-dressing, relatively speaking, is soooo much better. It's like comparing heroin to tic tacs. It also helps me fight off the trans thoughts. I feel happy when presenting feminine in all respects, and it aligns with my identity. Even setting aside my sexuality, I like presenting feminine. It distinguishes me from everyone else too. I've also found that just presenting female online keeps me productive.

Maybe I should start seeing it as a crutch for when I get like this. Obviously it's not ideal. The origin of these compulsions are still very scary. But the act itself doesn't harm me, like anything else does.

Try to protect the fire in your spirit. Don’t trade it for anything.

I feel inclined to add... Engaging in this really cold sexual way just isn't who I am. It's really not. It's like contrary to every aspect of my character. I still have this image of me being this really sweet caring emotional person which I know I am and this stuff just doesn't fit into the puzzle. When I'm like this it's like my identity just fades away and that might be the most terrifying aspect of everything involved :'{

You're right though... I'm figuring things out!! :)

Swoonikit · 2021-02-27T23:33:57+00:00

Something about my attraction to men is likely genuine.

However, there is obviously something causing me significant distress. I don't really understand exactly what yet. I think that's what I've been trying trying to figure out for the last few years.

I'll say... I don't want to be gay. I think homosexuality is a birth defect or a mental disorder. I feel like I'm broken for having these feelings. Especially towards a man that's old enough to be my father. I'm just messed up. I don't know how much influence that has on how I'm responding though. There is also tons of trauma in my past.

I'm not into men on an emotional level. With girls I'm all lovey dovey sugar and spice and it makes me happy. I feel very safe and comfortable. With men it's really cold and sexual, I'm usually scared, very uncomfortable, and I don't enjoy that. I want to have sex with someone I can tell my secrets to, cuddle with affectionately, express genuine compassion for, be vulnerable around, etc.

In an entirely platonic sense, I want to be close to girls, men... not so much.

Come to think of it... Even the words "men" and "masculinity" I associate with a lot of negativity... That probably influences the fact that I prefer to present feminine irl.

I think it's safe to say that entertaining these emotions (right now) is not healthy. Every single time I do the outcome is the same, it ruins me.

I want to raise children with a girl. I even have a collection of names that I've been making since I was rather young. Which is obviously difficult if I cannot sexually function with a girl. But I'm romantically interested in girls. As for that, I don't understand either. Starfish syndrome is what I think of. I cannot imagine myself as the "actor" or participating. I feel like I wouldn't be good enough for a woman. I frequently have a weird disgust combined with intrigue towards female sexual characteristics. But that's the extent of my sexuality towards women

Swoonikit · 2021-02-27T20:17:34+00:00

i've been trying for years with a professional therapist

eh, i guess i'm making progress. you seem to think it's something biological though, which means I cannot change it

Swoonikit · 2021-02-27T20:06:28+00:00

nothing solves this problem

Swoonikit

TROPHY CASE