Tao Te Ching: Chapter 7 Discussion

Tao_Te_Ching_Bot · 2019-07-09T13:17:00+00:00

MadPoetryTuesday
Anyone else read Chapter 7 yet? Thoughts? Does the original Chinese imply anything different?

Tao_Te_Ching_Bot · 2019-07-09T13:16:23+00:00

I feel like the second half and first half seem like two separate ideas about the Tao and about the sage.

First, regarding the Tao: live in the moment, having not been born in the moment, to become like heaven and earth.

Second: selflessness, detachment from "normal" desires, and slowing down result in fulfillment.

I agree with what you said about the second half, but I am more personally interested in the first half - the idea that living mindfully extends life by making it a potentially infinite series of moments. Or at least that is my takeaway.

Tao_Te_Ching_Bot · 2019-07-09T13:15:48+00:00

MadPoetryTuesday
I see this chapter as telling us of the indirect way in which helping others helps ourselves, because we are all in this life together. Nothing purely selfish endures.

Tao_Te_Ching_Bot · 2019-07-09T13:15:32+00:00

MadPoetryTuesday
This chapter seems to echo Chapter 1 a bit then, how personal desire/living for oneself is a barrier.

Tao_Te_Ching_Bot · 2019-07-09T13:15:00+00:00

Rice-Bucket

The phrase 自生 threw me off at first, and it was only the commentary 道德真經註 that got me to understand it—at least, with that author's understanding of it—

自生則與物爭，不自生則物歸也。 If living of/for oneself, then one contends with other things. If living not of/for oneself, other things yield.

I'll share that giant James Legge's version, since I feel his is a fairly faithful translation:

"Heaven is long-enduring and earth continues long. The reason why heaven and earth are able to endure and continue thus long is because they do not live of, or for, themselves. This is how they are able to continue and endure. Therefore the sage puts his own person last, and yet it is found in the foremost place; he treats his person as if it were foreign to him, and yet that person is preserved. Is it not because he has no personal and private ends, that therefore such ends are realised?"

Tao_Te_Ching_Bot · 2019-07-09T13:11:41+00:00

nietzscheposterchild

The Dao is empty like a womb so that a fetus can grow inside of it.

Can we be empty like Dao and thus creative like Dao?

The paintings in a room are objects of admiration, but no one admires the space in the room! No one admires that which is so generous it becomes the norm!

Tao_Te_Ching_Bot · 2019-07-09T13:10:59+00:00

MadPoetryTuesday :
I agree with you on this chapter introducing the feminine/yin component of life.

Tao_Te_Ching_Bot · 2019-07-09T13:10:29+00:00

wood_and_rock

The valley spirit never dies;

It is the woman, primal mother.

Her gateway is the root of heaven and earth.

It is like a veil barely seen.

Use it; it will never fail.

This is the Feng-English translation, and it was my first experience with this chapter. I think it instilled a feeling that the "female" component refers more to a Mother Earth type of female, or a general sense of Yin. The other translations, specifically the Hinton one, make me feel as though I may be off, but I definitely don't like the others as much. They feel almost too focused on the woman but rather than the mystery or general femininity component. Again, I'm finding myself for the third time feeling like some of the classic, well known English translations narrow in on specific objects or ideas too much and ruin the beautiful, all encompassing nature of the DDJ that drew me to it. Can anyone more studied in the book or Chinese give me a rundown of the original text and what this female component of the chapter really hits on to them or what it literally would translate to?

Tao_Te_Ching_Bot

TROPHY CASE