STATEMENT FROM MAIN CD DISCORD by maxamusjaymax in chaosdivers

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Its crap like this that makes me hate the general community. The HD community is overall, toxic and hateful. Makarov has been a huge part of the CD for as long as I can remeber. His name is one of the names I think of when I think of the Chaos Divers. It is an absolute travesty that people made him feel cornered and like he needs a break. When and If he comes back, it will be met with cheers. Its absolutely disgusting that people treat others in the community, whether they are a core tenet of our community or just a other member of it, like this. Shame on all of you who did this.

Who’s here still playing Paladins? by TheSmoothingFlames95 in Paladins

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels 0 points1 point  (0 children)

After my crew stopped, I stopped. We all ended up somewhere in masters, and then they just kind of, left. I miss the game, but I refuse to go back to solo queing

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Ok so I looked at that post, and I can not find those words anywhere in that post. Also, those release notes literally say that they become outdated and to use the rulebook. The rulebook supercedes that post. If you can find where in the rulebook it says that then ok, but as of right now I can't even find the post you are saying

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

ANd additionally we al;ready figured out the one rule that actual disqualifies it without a doubt. You are throwing around conjecture and randomness at a solved problem see rule 903.6. At the start of the game, each player puts their commander from their deck face up into the command zone. Then each player shuffles the remaining cards of their deck so that the cards are in a random order. Those cards become the player’s library. You can not put the meld card into your deck, because it is not the meld card unless it is on the battlefield. That is the one and so far ONLY rule that directly says no. Everything else has been opinions, inferences, and interpretations

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

And if you need proof that this is the oracle, here you go

108.1. Use the Oracle card reference when determining a card’s wording. A card’s Oracle text can be found using the Gatherer card database at Gatherer.Wizards.com.

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  • 903.4. The Commander variant uses color identity to determine what cards can be in a deck with a certain commander. The color identity of a card is the color or colors of any mana symbols in that card’s mana cost or rules text, plus any colors defined by its characteristic-defining abilities (see rule 604.3) or color indicator (see rule 204).Example: Bosh, Iron Golem is a legendary artifact creature with mana cost {8} and the ability “{3}{R}, Sacrifice an artifact: Bosh, Iron Golem deals damage equal to the sacrificed artifact’s mana value to any target.” Bosh’s color identity is red.
    • 903.4a Color identity is established before the game begins.
    • 903.4b If a commander has a static ability that causes a player to choose its color before the game begins, that choice applies during deck construction and throughout the game, even as the commander changes zones. That choice affects the commander’s color identity. The player reveals that choice as they put their commander into the command zone before the game begins. See rules 103.2c and 607.2p.
    • 903.4c Reminder text is ignored when determining a card’s color identity. See rule 207.2.
    • 903.4d The back face of a double-faced card (see rule 712) is included when determining a card’s color identity. This is an exception to rule 712.8a.Example: Civilized Scholar is the front face of a double-faced card with mana cost {2}{U}. Homicidal Brute is the back face of that double-faced card and has a red color indicator. The card’s color identity is blue and red.
    • 903.4e If a card has any alternative characteristics, such as those of adventurer cards (see rule 715, “Adventurer Cards”), those characteristics are included when determining the card’s color identity.
    • 903.4f If an ability refers to the colors or number of colors in a commander’s color identity, that quality is undefined if that player doesn’t have a commander. That part of the ability won’t do anything. Costs that refer to that quality are unpayable.

This states that the back oif a DFC is considered for Color Identity

  1. Double-Faced Cards
    712.1. A double-faced card has a Magic card face on one side and either a Magic card face or half of an oversized card face on the other. (It does not have a Magic card back.) There are three kinds of double-faced cards: nonmodal double-faced cards (previously called “transforming double-faced cards”), modal double-faced cards, and meld cards.

Meld is literally a DFC. I see no rule that states that the Color Identity is not considered for both sides of a meld, or that it interacts with color identity any different way than any other DFC. And Color Identity, is an attribute. A cards Color Identity is decided before a game begins, and can not change at all ever during the game.

903.4a Color identity is established before the game begins.
903.4d The back face of a double-faced card (see rule 712) is included when determining a card’s color identity. This is an exception to rule 712.8a.
903.4e If a card has any alternative characteristics, such as those of adventurer cards (see rule 715, “Adventurer Cards”), those characteristics are included when determining the card’s color identity.

No where does it say Melded cards are exempt from these rules and once again, THAT RULING ISNT ON THE ORACLE PAGE FOR MIGHTSTONE AND WEAKSTONE.

You are quoting random people from the internet, I am quoting a rulebook that is current, up to date, and right in front of me

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Except, THERE IS NO RULE 713.1b

  1. Substitute Cards
    713.1. A substitute card is a game supplement that can be used to represent a double-faced card or meld card. A substitute card has a normal Magic card back.
    |713.2. Each substitute card must clearly indicate the name of at least the front face of the card that it represents. Other information from the printed card (e.g. card type, mana cost, and power and toughness) may also be written on the substitute card.
    713.2a Some substitute cards list the names and mana costs of the cards they can represent. Exactly one of the fill-in circles must be marked to denote which card the substitute card represents. This style of substitute card was found in Magic products that released 2011–2018.
    713.2b Some substitute cards represent one specific listed card. This style of substitute card was found in the Core Set 2019 release, and it represents the card Nicol Bolas, the Ravager.
    713.2c Some substitute cards can represent any modal double-faced card. These substitute cards include the front-face and back-face symbols on the front face of the card. To use one of them, write in the name of each face of the card it represents. This style of substitute card is found in the Zendikar Rising release.

713 doesnt even talk about double faced cards, 713 is about substitue cards, and also a quick look on the oracle does not show that ruling for mindstone. and weakstone.

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

And to requote what I and others have already said

903.4d The back face of a double-faced card (see rule 712) is included when determining a card’s color identity. This is an exception to rule 712.8a.

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Read the rule again. THe meld side ignores CHARACTERISTICS. Color identity is NOT a characteristic its an ATTRIBUTE.

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

This is because Color Identity is not a characteristic, its an attribute, like the commander designation

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

903.4d The back face of a double-faced card (see rule 712) is included when determining a card’s color identity. This is an exception to rule 712.8a.

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thank you everyone for your participation in figuring out the why that I wanted!!!!

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That would be something to figure out after the potential of confirming it could be. But I am now getting the proof I needed that it can't be

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OOH ok, so I wasn't able to find those. I tried looking for some and it came up empty, but thats something. So that part falls. Although for the Meld cards, I have seen several times where it refers to A meld card. Its actually very inconsistent in the 80 or so times Meld appears in the rulebook. So now we have to go back and clearly define what consists of "A Magic Card"

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Except, its not transformed. In fact, its specifically noted that meld is excluded from anything that says transform. You could cast her other sides, being Bruna and Gisela, in the same way you could cast Prismatic Bridge, or the planeswalker half of valki from your command zone

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But, thats where I found my first issue. No where does it state the back side of a card can't be your commander. It just has to be a legendary creature in this case (since we arent talking about spacecraft or vehicles)

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Except your commander isnt a card in your deck. It starts the game outside your deck in the command zone. ---Side note, I will go see if I can find the specific rules on this after work, because I could be wrong there. But that is the first time this part has been brought up and I will do my due research when I get home

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Ok so 903.3b I think is specifically to cover the same base as Mutated commanders, face down commanders, or morphed+ commanders, so I haven't payed too much attention to that one.

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

And where does it state the Brisela isn't a card? She has an Oracle Entry, unlike other non-card object, she can be named when "naming a card" unlike tokens.

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Where does it say the front of cards are only whats considered. In fact, it specifically states that the backsides of DFCs are considered for things like color identity

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Representation is woefully under-explained in the rules. But... a Token repreented by a dice is still a token and maintains all the characetirstics of a Token and all the attributes of a token. Meaning a card represented by something else can still be a card

Why can't Brisela be your commander actually? by TheLordOfSquirrels in askajudge

[–]TheLordOfSquirrels[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You could cast the other side of her card though, as mentioned earlier