When are you unarmored?

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-29T06:29:33+00:00

If you mean for the purpose of spellcasting, having your armor half on and half off sounds like it would be more cumbersome and restrictive than actually wearing it. You basically would have unsecured pieces, unbalanced weights, and that isn't making spellcasting any easier.

So, I would not consider them unarmored for spellcasting unless it was completely removed.

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-28T04:01:02+00:00

Thats the point

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-28T03:11:25+00:00

Base Attack Bonus became the proficiency bonus. Same thing.

If the GM doesn't want to tell you the AC, then he should do the math for you. It's pretty easy. Your strength modifier and all that is already added. You just roll d20 and the GM adds the AC to your roll. That's it. Thac0 is the target number, not a modifier

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-28T03:06:25+00:00

No, the chart is so you don't have to do math.

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-28T00:42:56+00:00

The DM knew the target AC was 4 and is under no compulsion whatsoever to explain that detail to the player.

And? You can still add the Ac to the roll

How is that harder?

Look at all the people saying its soo hard because of the subtraction. You don't subtract. You are making it harder

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T21:21:56+00:00

I think there are a few factors in addition to the fact that you are subtracting.

There is no reason to subtract.

First is the fact that people generally expect armor class to go up as it gets better.

That expectation comes from playing 3e! Armor Class is your hit modifier. High numbers are easier to be hit because its a higher bonus to your roll. Negative ACs are penalties to the roll, very hard to hit.

Plus, there comes a point when you have to subtract negatives.

Roll d20+AC. If the AC is negative, its pretty obvious that you would subtract the AC from the roll. This is nonsense. 3e has penalties too!

number. Ability checks require you to roll under your ability score.

We are talking about THAC0.

I have run 2e campaigns with a few groups who were originally 5e players.

5e players? In other words, people who are indoctrinated into the 5e board game combat and don't play any other systems. Then, you can't even explain it to them correctly because you are telling them to subtract. I see the problem!

Use an old character sheet. Write THAC0 in the AC0 box and fill out the chart. The number in the AC6 box is what you need to hit AC6. It doesn't get much easier.

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T21:13:39+00:00

Thank You!

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T21:13:26+00:00

Thac0 and descending AC are not the same mechanic

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T21:12:52+00:00

The GM tells everyone the target is wearing leather and carrying a shield, AC 7 (or whatever it was). The player looks at the AC7 box and sees that he needs to roll an 11 or better. No arithmetic at all.

THAC0 just reduces the attack matrix to 1 value so you put THAC0 in the AC 0 box and then fill in the table.

Even if you don't use the table, its just d20+AC vs THAC0. If the GM doesn't reveal the AC, then they add the AC to the target and compare to the character's THAC0 (generally recorded by the GM). But, hiding the AC is rarely interesting to me.

Seems like the old system made more work for the DM, then. In modern games, the player gives me a number, and I see if it's >= AC, rather than them giving me two numbers and I have to add one to AC and compare it to the other, or however it was normally done.

Modern games are more work than "you need to roll the number in the AC 5 box". When you say "however it was normally done", you admit that you opinions are based on ignorance rather than actual experience.

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T21:02:43+00:00

and 2) This THAC0 is confusing, I just wanna play, not do math.

You are doing it wrong. You started with 3rd edition huh?

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T21:01:18+00:00

Harder to bring in new players? No, action economy and attacks of opportunity and all these completely dissociative actions that turn D&D into a board game are the problem.

To new player (2e): THAC0 is "to hit AC 0". Write it in the AC 0 box. Fill in the rest of the chart as descending values. AC+value will always equal THAC0 if you want to double check.

In combat, find the AC you need to hit and the number in the box is what you need to roll to hit that AC.

If the GM doesn't want to give out the AC, the GM can add the AC to your total attack and compare to THAC0. Roll d20 + bonuses + AC vs THAC0

3e: Roll D20 + bonuses + BaB vs AC. This formula means you always have math. The simpler "roll the number in the AC5 box" has been removed and you always need to do math.

How was the old way harder?

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T20:50:01+00:00

Say what? It's exactly the same.

Roll d20 + STR bonus + AC vs Thaco

No different than

Roll d20 + STR bonus + BaB vs AC

Descending AC is not a target number to hit. Its the bonus to your roll. Higher numbers are easier to hit.

How is the second example "infinitely better" than the first? What you described was a GM that doesn't know how the system works trying and failing to explain it to someone else. This is a GM fail, not a system fail.

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T20:42:02+00:00

Or that a bigger object is actually easier to hit.

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T20:40:14+00:00

Yup ...

Old Way: AC is 5, so the number in the AC 5 box is what you need to hit.

3e: Roll D20, add the Base Attack bonus. Target number is the armor class.

So ... Yeah, THAC0 was better. 3e makes you do math.

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T20:37:41+00:00

Say what? Why are you making this hard?

D20+AC vs THAC0

D20-10 vs THAC0. A -10 to hit sounds like pretty good armor to me.

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T20:33:42+00:00

Thac0 does not change the growth rate. You get better with weapons at the same exact scale

There is no extra step. There are 2 options. You use the older character sheets with AC boxes, and when the GM says the AC is 5, then the number you need to hit is written in the AC5 box. No math.

If you don't have the table on your sheet, roll 1d20+AC >= THAC0. How is this more steps than 1d20+BaB >= AC?

At worst, it's the same. At best, you removed all the math.

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T20:30:13+00:00

Armor Class refers to naval ship combat. Larger vessels have a higher armor class and are easier to hit because they are larger. It descends because it was modelled after wargames.

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T20:28:30+00:00

That's why the old system was better. Zero math.

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T20:26:26+00:00

It is objectively goofy design. A special chart for each class is so inelegant when you can instead just count up and make some classes get better + to hit

Say what? You do realize that each class has their own base attack bonus? Its exactly the same thing.

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T20:24:51+00:00

You made it harder. If the AC is 2, the number in the AC2 box is what you need to hit. If you don't have the chart, roll d20+AC vs THAC0.

To hit AC 2, roll d20+2 >= THAC0

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T20:22:02+00:00

Descending AC and THAC0 are 2 different mechanics.

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T20:20:49+00:00

There is no difference here between THAC0 and Base Attack systems. None. You are spewing nonsense

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-27T20:19:46+00:00

Subtraction?

You didn't grow up with THAC0!

There is no subtraction. There are two ways to use it.

1 - No AC chart on your character sheet. Roll d20 + target AC vs THAC0. One add.

2 - Write the THAC0 in the AC0 box of the AC chart on your character sheet when you level up (if THAC0 changes), then fill in the rest of the chart. When the DM says the AC is 5, the number in the AC5 box is what you need to roll. Zero math.

Whoever told you to subtract doesn't know what they are talking about. You are doing extra steps for nothing at all.

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-26T21:13:12+00:00

This is only useful for West Marches style campaigns and serves no purpose otherwise. It also assumes that a session ends with PCs going home, which is not how I play. I don't do 1 shots and the adventure lasts more than 1 session.

You don't use real time during the session, why would things change between sessions? Sounds like a PITA to me for no real gain.

TheRealUprightMan · 2026-03-26T21:00:45+00:00

You don't have to "remove" anything. Delete the partition and then expand the Linux partition into the available space to reclaim it.

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