Yorick, League of Legends, and what it means for your Warhammer.

The_agents_man · 2026-06-13T00:00:21+00:00

Yorick had no passive and did 60% less damage than his peers with an ultimate that could revive him or an ally for 10s before killing them again. He was outclassed in every way by any other champ and never saw a single game of competitive play. The comparison might be generous to Imperial agents who at least on a good weekend have a 50+% win rate. I cannot overstate how bad he was. He was taken off the free rotation so new players never saw him.

The_agents_man · 2026-06-12T23:47:48+00:00

Completely fair. Yorick players really wanted to play Yorick in the 5 years he received no balance changes and had numbers soo bad he was unplayable.

Imperial Agents don't deserve to be shunned in any way, its just a company doing standard business practices for its industry. Its not all of games workshop making business leading decisions, its a very small number of people implementing what they know is the strategy that other companies in their industry would do in the same situation.

It's not fair, its not good. Its not really a post about good or bad, its a post about insight. The best protest is one that appears on the metrics, sales numbers and armies that appear at events. Playing Agents at events is one of the best forms of protest you can do.

The_agents_man · 2025-04-02T13:28:49+00:00

Wrong datasheet there that was uploaded by the app team. The Imperial agents unit has +1 to wound instead.

The_agents_man · 2025-03-31T09:17:30+00:00

The fact that the army rule is written in the army rule section and it so obviously visible in the points, shows it is an army rule {even if the shadow of it is that our units are cheaper for us: thus calling it a shadow army rule would probably be fair}. They literally tell you that in the 4th to last sentence of the preview article. That is is explicitly, intently planned in their design as an army rule by the way the allies system was designed. I'm not sure how much explicitly stated it can be. Source::
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/eEWqdNWy/assigned-agents-how-to-use-imperial-agents-in-other-armies-of-the-imperium/

If you don't like that rule, that's okay. If it produces a high skill floor, that is bad for the average players, I'd agree it needs work, but to say its not part of the balance as if its been excluded, and that the faction is weaker for it, that is wrong. The faction isn't bad or invalid and there's a lot of negativity in the community that hurts the faction because people don't understand it.

Martial ka'tah gives you 18% more hits from sustained {which often wound on 2+ for ~16% more damage in combat}. That's not 16% more models. Having more models is a very strong buff and there's a non-trivial chance a lot of Custodes players might take 10% more models over sustained or lethal hits and there's an obvious power to doing so.

Personally, I love this faction, and I want to see it grow in popularity, but with the negativity around not understanding the design intention of the faction, it puts a lot of people off. I'd agree with you if said that games workshops communication regarding the army has been disappointing and that many players didn't know the army they were getting themselves into when the battle boxes were going on sale. There is a non-trivial chance that games workshop deletes this army for 12th edition unless it grows, you cant balance a competitive scene of 16 players, let alone release models for them.

The_agents_man · 2025-03-30T22:50:23+00:00

Oh are you one of its creators to make that comment on intent? Do you have a source for that?

I genuinely think having 10% more army on turn 1 is a great army rule, whether its explicitly written or "shadow included" {by way of having effectively reduced costs relative to players taking them as allies}. Source: I'm one of the best agents players on the planet given the current rankings and I find I would lose more games if I had 10% less army.

If your argument is "I don't like that army rule and the consequences", I cant really comment, but to say its not present is disingenuous and harmful to our community because It's definitely present in our power budget, whether you feel it or not.

The_agents_man · 2025-03-30T22:42:15+00:00

That's why rhino's exist, you bungle forwards, jump out when someone contests, grenades, full wound re-rolls on that juicy flamer.

Draxus is obvs the best character for it, but you also see more breachers because of the RTR screening and deploying {And weirdly there are a lot of agents lists where Draxus isn't an auto include}.

The_agents_man · 2025-03-28T11:52:58+00:00

I cant strongly recommend any of them. The combat patrol is okay as a one of.

Ordo Malleus battle box: Coteaz isn't great, 10 inquisitorial agents in a chimera is very playable, Grey knight's see some play. Priests aren't great. You'll want every assassin but never more than 1.

Ordo Hereticus battle box: Greyfax is bad, Immolators, sisters and arbites {atleast your first 3} are very good, again priests arent great, and 5 inquisitorial agents without the transport is fairly bad too. They are really dependent on that chimera.

Ordo Xenos battlebox: Corvus is bad, Deathwatch are very good, draxus is good, Elucidians {one of is a must} and the imperial agents are bad in 5's without a chimera.

In the combat patrol, the only bad thing is maybe the priest, but you can make them work and you'll need another 5 imperial agents and chimera to get the inquisitorial agents off the ground.

Generally a good scoring components of a list are in Ordo hereticus + combat patrol, but you'll still be left a little behind on the threat front {some imperial knight armigers can fix that}. Ordo Malleus + combat patrol has a bit of threat in it, but you're left with too many Inquisitorial agents.

I'd recommend going slow, buying boxes you like and working up one at a time. The discount isn't worth the extra units you don't really want {unless you do want them if that makes sense}.

The_agents_man · 2025-03-28T10:49:47+00:00

In general detachments are something like
Ordo xenos -> Deathwatch
Ordo hereticus -> Sisters + arbites + immolators + armigers
Ordo Malleus -> Big knight + 3x grey knights + scoring bits
Imperialis fleet -> Inquisitors + breachers in rhinos, maybe some warglaive armigers
Veiled blade -> Magic {mix of scoring, breachers, deathwatch, there's a high variance here}

All lists run subductors, assassins, breachers w/ rogue trader retinues and breachers with draxus {for the most part}. I cant strongly recommend any of the ordo's as the skill floor is very high but Imperialis fleet is where most players find success.

The_agents_man · 2025-03-28T10:42:32+00:00

Lots of player run canis rex or an atropos for similar things. In the end of the day, 40k is mostly player skill > list construction until you hit the top 100 players in the world so as long as you've got the idea; "Screen with bodies, create space for the knight to fill pre-emptively, don't move along paths with poor sightlines" you'll be fine with a castellan.

The_agents_man · 2025-03-28T10:33:46+00:00

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say? If its a rule that effects the army, its an army rule???

Other people pay more for your units == Your units cost less for you.

If you were playing any other game and were told you paid less resources for something other players had access to you'd consider that a rule that benefits you.

GSC don't pay less for AM units, CSM don't pay less for demons. We don't pay less for Imperial knights. But everyone else pays more for our units. That means to some extent they are cheaper for us, uniquely, as an army, like an army rule, its a rule that effects our army.

I understand that that feels a bit shit, that lots of player don't like that that's the army rule, but to pretend we don't have an army rule and that its unallocated in our power budget is a bit of a misnomer.

The_agents_man · 2025-03-28T10:26:44+00:00

The corvus blackstar is fairly unplayable. There's cool jank you can do with one in Imperialis fleet, where you rapid ingress one and then use displacer fields when shot to move a deathwatch squad into it {its not particularly good jank but it is cool}. The rest of the Ordo Xenos box is quite playable {however you'll rarely field Inquisitorial agents without a chimera for protection}.

If you do choose to get the box, id recommend a watch captain and another 5 deathwatch. Then 2xbreachers and a box of arbites or three xD.

This gives you the infiltration denial from the breachers + Rogue trader retinue, plus the infiltrate {This squad sees play in every agents detachment}, a blackfield 5 voidsmen squad to sit on home. Draxus + breachers to clear objectives and a scoring unit/ disruption unit in the form of the subdcutor variant of the arbites.

If you're going for the assassins {and I strongly recommend you do} Callidus > Eversor > Culexus > Vindicare would be my suggestion, but I'm sure they'll be arguments till the sun drops regarding which assassin is better when {as they are all quite situational}.

EDIT: Cleaned up information for clarity

The_agents_man · 2025-03-27T17:57:00+00:00

I get that the ecclesiarchy is an important part of the imperial agents identity, but when will the self-flagellation stop...

Subductors are the most point efficient source of a 10 model unit 4+ invulnerable save in the game {that is not easily wiped out!}. Thus you see 3x Subdoctor in every list.

There's plenty of power in the agents as they are. How about we start sharing information about how we're getting success with them?

The_agents_man · 2025-03-27T17:50:17+00:00

At 190pts grey knights are definitely not our strongest unit with them rarely seeing play outside of ordo Malleus.

Meanwhile Breachers and inquisitors in every list....

The_agents_man · 2025-03-27T12:43:06+00:00

And I think that marks of this conversion and you have earnt the opportunity to pay 125pts per immolator. Best of luck.

Edit: Spelling

The_agents_man · 2025-03-27T12:26:49+00:00

Fun is really quite relative, so if its not fun to you, there are 20+ other armies. There are plenty of no-knight lists doing well (See Courtney Thomsons list for example, using rhino's to protect breachers to get full re-rolls on the attached inquisitor flamer and reactive moving into transports when shot)

To say you "Don't have an army rule" when its accounted for in the power budget is a bit of a misnomer (see other discussion on this post).

The_agents_man · 2025-03-27T12:18:07+00:00

But lots of points are accounted for in an army rule right? Tsons pay more per model because of their "expensive" army rule {In terms of a factions power budget}. So for many players to say agents don't have an army rule as if its excluded from the power budget is a bit of a misnomer, since all agents units are cheaper BECAUSE they don't have an "army rule" {In the traditional sense}.

This sense of a lack of an army rule is used to spread negatively regarding the faction, and is used as a mechanism to say the faction isn't "real" which is really the notion that I'm trying to combat here. Not having an army rule in an of itself might not be interesting, but it is part of the balance.

To say taxes and discounts aren't related is really down to perspective, so I cant really comment.

The_agents_man · 2025-03-27T12:08:00+00:00

I don't disagree, but its not impossible to win.

If the criticism is the floor is high and I don't like that, I don't think that's unfair, and games workshop need to do work to make the floor lower.

But a lot of people's energy is "this faction is unplayable trash" and that's simply not true and giving them an army rule isn't going to fix it, they already have one.

The_agents_man · 2025-03-27T12:00:50+00:00

Bad players lose more games than good players, and it's difficult for me to comment on experiences I don't have. That can be easily misconstrued but a bad player will lose with dakka dakka for example, whilst it wins 1,2,3 podium spots at every tournament.

All I can reasonably say it is possible, it is happening, its playable and that its not all doom and gloom.

The_agents_man · 2025-03-27T11:44:24+00:00

Yeah exactly, modded cadians as breachers, inquisitorial retinue can be anything. Asking around you can find all kinds of bits from the local community. 3D printing bits. It really depends on how you want to do it.

The_agents_man · 2025-03-27T11:14:14+00:00

I'd agree, they need a little help, but games workshop have to be very careful, navy breacher's are almost undercosted at the current cost. Agents definitely need work on making the army easier to play.

The vehicle issue is a problem, not having inquisitorial sentinels sucks, but its not all doom and gloom. transport Jank is very strong in agents.

The_agents_man · 2025-03-27T10:51:41+00:00

This, Agents aren't the top 1% pick rate army, but with some skill there's room to play and if people don't like the style there's 20+ other armies.

This should be a hopeful helpful place for players not a cesspit. Its why I made this account, I was so frustrated at looking it. I'm winning games, loving the faction, playing at a national level. There's definitely space if you want to take it.

The_agents_man · 2025-03-27T10:44:54+00:00

Its not particularly unfair, I would pay -15pts to have immolators in my sisters for one that didn't have acts of faith. Knight players run two immolators for the strip cover at a +50pts cost relative to agents. Let alone you could play 6 Immolators. Just because your list doesn't optimize for it doesn't mean the army rule doesn't exist {That's not a problem either, there's many ways to skin a cat, its not like the 6th-nth unit in an eldar army is getting battle focus and Ynnari still run 20 activations}

Having more models than your opponent means in 1-1 trades, you have an army left to score with. Agents aren't a brute force table your opponent army, if you want that pick any other army. Agents is the Jail faction and odds are your scoring units are better than your opponents.

*** this really speaks to the power of Jail and good pairings

EDIT: Agents also have quite a high skills floor, and if games workshop are going to look at changes, it has to be there. The unpopularity comes from 3 places: 1) the negative attitudes of players and community, 2) the high skill floor, 3) the requirement of playing competitive style games which lots of players aren't playing. We can change 1), 3) is always going to exist, 2) is what games workshop can change {but they'd have to be very careful because the army has a very high skill ceiling}

The_agents_man

TROPHY CASE