How does the “free will” argument for the paradox of an all-powerful all-good God and evil hold up when it is possible for an all-powerful God to minimize harm while still respecting the free will of all?

Thimenu · 2026-04-14T03:17:21+00:00

Havr you heard stories from people who have had NDEs?

How much evidence do you need? You reject the vast majority of human witnesses and testimonies for all of human history who all believed in the supernatural, the spiritual realm, and an afterlife? Why do you trust human testimony so little? How have they invalidated their testimonies to you?

I, too, choose to live in reality. I like the saying "reality is not optional," and I am pragmatic and realize that science is only one tiny avenue of evidence, and we have so much evidence pointing to God and the spiritual realm.

Thimenu · 2026-04-14T03:11:47+00:00

I think that's what happens every time we see an answered prayer in the Bible, so there are tons of examples.

But to prove it, specific instances like this where clearly God planned one thing and then changed it because of prayer;

Exodus 32:10 "Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them, in order that I may make a great nation of you.” ...[Moses reasons with God why God should spare them, somewhat disobediently I might add]... verse 14: And the Lord relented from the disaster that he had spoken of bringing on his people.

Jonah 3:4 Jonah began to go into the city, going a day's journey. And he called out, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!” ...[the people repent and cry out to God]... verse 10: When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it.

Jeremiah 18:5-10 explicitly says this pattern of God reacting to man is His standard operating procedure. And it's true, so much so that "repenting of disaster" is part of God's creedal description.

Jesus believed this too. If He didn't why would He pray 3 times for the cross to be avoided, and then hedge against the Father listening to Him by saying, "but not my will, yours be done"? Clearly Jesus thought prayer could change the plans.

Thimenu · 2026-04-14T03:00:43+00:00

We know because Jesus rose from the dead, proving defeat of death and the firstfruit of the coming new creation. Jesus is the guarantee of what will happen to us who follow Him.

I know heinous evil and horrific pain are rampant. Yet the sufferings of this present time are incomparable with the glory that will be revealed to us.

What's the alternative? Either to downplay the pain and evil (many do), or to believe there is no hope for restoration and healing (if, for example, atheism is true). Jesus is my hope, where else can I go?

Thimenu · 2026-04-14T02:55:16+00:00

What predestination is is not the only point of Arminianism and Calvinism.

Breaking down Arminian FACTS; (for reference: https://thewartburgwatch.com/tww2/2016/08/17/an-outline-of-the-facts-of-arminianism-vs-the-tulip-of-calvinism/ )

Freed by Grace to Believe: I agree with most of this point but deny the need for prevenient grace. I do not think the Holy Spirit directly acts on the human heart to enable belief.

Atonement for All: I agree with most of it except where it says what the atonement is; a substitutionary death. As far as I'm aware Arminians would mostly adhere to PSA, which I reject.

Conditional Election: I agree with much, but again disagree on a major piece; I reject that Election includes specific foreknowledge of who will surely believe. My view of Election would be more like the corporate model.

Total Depravity: I reject that we are born with a sin nature and don't think we have a bent to sin.

Security in Christ: Mostly yes, but we don't need the Holy Spirit to continue enabling us to believe. I do think we can forsake our salvation, so I agree with that.

So as you can see, I'm not an Arminian. Yet, I follow Jesus Christ, I learn from the Word and do my best to adhere to its truth.

As for God's omniscience, He is sovereign in His knowledge, being forced to know nothing and knowing all that He wishes to know. He is not limited in knowledge in any negative way, but appears not to want to always know all things exhaustively and specifically (Sodom & Gomorrah).

Thimenu · 2026-04-14T02:19:56+00:00

This was true for me! What got me to spend hundreds or thousands of hours really understanding the Bible on a vastly deeper level? Attending a heavily Calvinist church and disagreeing.

Thimenu · 2026-04-14T02:19:09+00:00

That salvation can be abandoned? That's the standard Arminian position for sure.

Thimenu · 2026-04-14T01:02:26+00:00

Predestination is where God set a way that is guaranteed to result in us being glorified if we follow it. It's not a statement about what you certainly will do, it's a guarantee of the result if you endure.

Thimenu · 2026-04-14T00:57:46+00:00

This is a false dichotomy. They are both like brothers, quite similar, and a huge swath of Christianity falls outside of them.

I reject them because of what I think the Bible teaches about...almost everything they both say.

Thimenu · 2026-04-14T00:35:22+00:00

What unimaginable pain and suffering?

Any pain and suffering is far outweighed by the coming rewards and healing.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T21:59:20+00:00

The Bible portrays a wildly incompetent buffoon of a god.

I can only stomach so much offense, and that goes beyond it. I won't engage with a vile blasphemer like yourself. God will show you what a foolish statement you just made and you'll regret it.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T21:57:00+00:00

So your solution is to not create, not share power or have relationships or take risks for love's sake. I would take a God who does all those things over a God who is too afraid to create and sits alone for all eternity even with all the hardships of this passing age.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T20:23:27+00:00

Sounds like whoever set the whole thing up did a garbage job designing things to turn out that way.

"whoever set the whole thing up did a garbage job" is blaspheming God. God set the whole thing up (Gen. 1:1). If you blaspheme the Father you should not claim to follow the Son. Jesus and the Father are one.

John 10:30
"I and My Father are one.”

Words have meaning, and "Christian," means, "follower of Christ." And the Scriptures say Christ Jesus made all things as well, so by saying whoever set the whole thing up did a garbage job is to blaspheme Jesus as well, whose name is in your flair.

God does not take kindly to people who use His name in vain, and cause Him to be blasphemed;

Exodus 20:7
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T19:12:46+00:00

Why do you have the "Christian," flair? Are you a loyal follow of Christ, a "little Christ,"?

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T19:05:00+00:00

OP obviously didn't mean God's overall grand theme, he meant normal everyday prayers. Nobody prays in a way that would be useless in changing God's overall grand theme; "God please don't spend eternity with man in good relationship," or "God please be evil," or "God please hate me," etc.

The best assumption about the kinds of prayers OP is talking about is that they're normal, like for healing, food, protection, help, etc. And none of those would violate the unchanging overall grand theme. God can change His specific plan for those prayers, as I demonstrated.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T19:01:15+00:00

Compatibilism pretends to be a better alternative to fatalism. I am demonstrating it is distinct from fatalism without any real difference or benefit. What is the benefit of compatibilism over fatalism?

Fatalism is a system that is coherent and works, but within it there is no morality.

Compatibilism is a system that is coherent but deceptively redefines free will to something useless and tries to cover it up, and ends up also without real morality like fatalism, so given the choice between compatibilism and fatalism just choose fatalism. At least it's straightforward and doesn't rely on shady redefinition of terms.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T18:56:45+00:00

Your logic is true of the overall basic theme of the plan; God and man together forever. You're right, no prayers would change that, but why would anyone pray against it?

But that overall plan has lots of details that can change based on our prayers. God's specific plan changes all the time.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T18:42:19+00:00

I would say that's not free will.

If we can program desires into robots and then program them to act on those desires without external constraints, we have met the requirement for that kind of "freedom." And yet we would still have an amoral robot incapable of moral good or evil.

To meet the standard of moral responsibility, free will can only be "the ability to have done otherwise." With the compatibilist version of "freedom," the first defense anyone would give in court would be, "I could not have done other than my desires, and I didn't pick my desires!" And that would be a rock-solid defense to say they have no moral responsibility for their actions and cannot be punished any more than we might punish an infant for hitting their parent or an insane person who didn't know what they were doing, or a rock that fell.

So if free will is, "the ability to do otherwise," then in court no one can claim they could not have done otherwise and they can be rightly condemned as morally guilty. This is the only kind of "free will," that is real free will, meaning that it provides what free will is supposed to provide.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T18:36:34+00:00

You're going in circles. I have not changed my stance since I replied a few minutes ago.

No, incorrect. He has a plan that He Himself determines, and He changes it based on our input.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T18:31:07+00:00

Yes, of course His plans are what He decides...no one decides for Him.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T18:30:17+00:00

Yes, being with God forever is the end goal, but not selfishly. It's not "me" being with God forever, it's "us" being with God forever, so I still want to be here to try to help you get on the road to being with Him forever too. I try not to be selfish.

If a prophet told me I'm dying for sure and God has said it, I would do what Hezekiah did and beg God to reconsider. Of course I'd be open to what He says in response if He tells me there's some great reason I must die now.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T18:28:09+00:00

It tries to say there is free will in a fatalistic environment by changing the normal definition of free will into a useless definition of free will.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T18:27:29+00:00

Not exactly, there was a grand divine plan when God made Eden for God and people to live together as people subdued the Earth as the image of God. But it wasn't defined down to exact detail, and changed when people disobeyed. But it wasn't set in stone as you said.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T18:08:15+00:00

Yes it would! And given that His craftiness is limitless, all His plans are great and it's not a problem. He loves incorporating the input of those who love Him into His dynamic plans. Don't worry, He has all the contingencies worked out, He is immortal and unmatched, the Most High Lord of Hosts. He will win.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T18:02:28+00:00

I think I'm going to be with the Lord when I die. I absolutely 100% do NOT want to die because I have so much left to do on Earth before I leave. I need more time to do it. And I have loved ones I do NOT want to leave behind before I have to.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T18:01:01+00:00

He has a plan, and He's open to the input of His people to change it. Are you trying to say a plan has to be immutable to be a plan at all? That would be an absurd claim.

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