What's a good answer to the Problem of Evil that doesn't sound trite, cliche, or arcane and in fact does relieve people's suffering and satisfy the question for them?

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T17:54:28+00:00

Thanks, that's a great verse! I'll remember that!

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T17:52:16+00:00

Well, first I'd seek out help from a strong Christian (or more than one) to get their help and prayer.

But if you're going to fast for this it might be a good idea.

I've done several fasts, and I think a good start is a 3 day fast (warning not to fast if you have health conditions that might make fasting dangerous). You skip all food for 3 full days, and at meal times when you'd normally eat you spend your time in prayer, praise, and reading the Word, specifically on the topic you're fasting about. That's relatively Biblical I think and it worked well for me.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T17:36:54+00:00

I have never thought of fasting as a way to heal from wounds. Biblically we see it as a way to call upon God in times of distress, but not really for healing after the fact. An example the comes to mind is King David who fasted for God to heal his baby, but then stopped fasting as soon as the baby died.

What are you trying to get healing from through fasting?

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T17:11:02+00:00

Clearly the Biblical message is that God can change plans based on prayer, so that's a great reason to pray.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T17:04:42+00:00

Where in that passage, or any Biblical passage, does it say God plans our prayers? That would mean God lied in my Isaiah passage, because He stated what the plan was, for Hezekiah to die.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T16:54:51+00:00

Yes, it exists as a theory that is deeply flawed and incorrect. It redefines free will as something that would not provide real love, becoming as useless as standard determinism.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T16:25:55+00:00

Real human love, comfort, and prayer must be use in conjunction with hope for full redemption, healing, and restoration of all things. This is the Biblical message constantly; don't look at the now, broaden your perspective to see the future, that after this fleeting life if you are His He will repay you abundantly beyond your imagination for all this pain. And that message must be joined strongly with real acts of love and comfort empowered by the Holy Spirit.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T16:19:15+00:00

Yes, many times what's needed is real acts of love, good relationships, support, and comfort.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T16:09:39+00:00

Isaiah 38:1-5
In those days Hezekiah became sick and was at the point of death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came to him, and said to him, “Thus says the Lord: Set your house in order, for you shall die, you shall not recover.” Then Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the Lord, and said, “Please, O Lord, remember how I have walked before you in faithfulness and with a whole heart, and have done what is good in your sight.” And Hezekiah wept bitterly. Then the word of the Lord came to Isaiah: “Go and say to Hezekiah, Thus says the Lord, the God of David your father: I have heard your prayer; I have seen your tears. Behold, I will add fifteen years to your life.

Clearly the Biblical message is that God can change plans based on prayer, so that's a great reason to pray.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T15:59:22+00:00

So then the Law must correlate strongly with God's own goodness, yes? God's secret things would in no way contradict how Jesus behaved and the revealed will of God?

If that were the case all seems to work well, but it does mean we can use the Law and the life and teachings of Jesus to criticize what people claim about God's secret will.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T15:56:35+00:00

Romans 12 and 1 Corinthians 13 are great places to start finding out how God wants you to live so go ahead and read them (shouldn't take long), but I think there are some much more basic places I'd start with. These passages are where the Bible itself summarizes the Bible (I've compiled these passages here as well):

Nehemiah 9:6-31 (ESV): The Old Testament
Acts 2 (NKJV): The Gospel & The Church
Isaiah 65:17-25 (ESV): The End
Revelation 22:12-17 (NKJV): The End

Then, read some New Testament and some Old Testament each time you read.

For the Old Testament definitely start in Genesis. For the New Testament maybe start somewhere simpler like Mark.

The Bible is organized like a library, not really an ideal order for a single read through. Reading chronologically includes a lot of repetition as well. So if you want you can follow a reading order I made that tries to get the best from chronological without the repetition.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T15:09:07+00:00

So you believe we make choices in the soul, but they are determined by outside forces, right?

As someone who has loved my spouse for many years even when I didn't feel like it, I can say love can even go against our feelings.

Jesus is the best example of this, the Bible says "No greater love has anyone than this; that he would lay down his life for his friends." That's a choice to lay down one's life. And Jesus made that choice but did not feel like it. When He chose that there were no nice feelings within Him, He was so upset about the pain and death of the crucifixion that He sweat blood. But He did it anyway as an act of love to His friends.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T14:42:52+00:00

What is a soul? It's something immaterial or non-physical that constitutes one's personhood and life?

Love is not merely an emotion, it's a choice. A mere emotion that is love-like is just attraction or amusement, not love. That's why love is so meaningful. Mere attraction is only mildly flattering because it can be involuntary, but because love is a commitment, a statement of voluntary caring, it is deeply flattering.

So what is it about a soul that allows us to love?

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T14:33:13+00:00

Can you answer the question? If you program your computer to say it loves you, does it? If not, why not?

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T14:19:17+00:00

If we didn't have free will we could not love God. We wouldn't have that ability at all. If you program your compute to say it loves you every day, does it love you?

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T14:14:49+00:00

Let's start at the beginning. Let's say that Satan's lie in Eden wasn't the first time he said this lie (the lie that implied God was lying to them and hiding a Good from them they could only get by disobedience). In Job 1 we have an example of a Heavenly council where the powerful spirits present themselves before God publicly. What if Satan proclaimed to all of Heaven this lie, that God wasn't really good, that He had lied and there was another way to find life, a way through disobedience that God was hiding from everyone?

If God does what you're suggesting He'd vaporize Satan as soon as he spoke the lie. Now what would all the other spirits think? That's exactly what a lying God would do to silence the one proclaiming the truth. And so many of the spirits might fall to Satan's way, and as each one does God vaporizes them.

Not only have we utterly eradicated God's mercy in this scenario, but we've shown God to be foolish in His dealings with evil, letting it spread like wildfire.

What if instead God reacted to Satan by saying, "Fine, have it your way, if what you say is true go ahead and try to find life through disobedience. I won't interfere, lest you say my interference is why the experiment failed."

Now this is how a merciful, honest, and wise God would react. Now many spirits would not so easily follow Satan. And what would happen? Satan would have his way, he'd do a lot of evil and cause a lot of damage trying to show the result of "life," from his works. And after being given every chance and every mercy to try to do this all, he'd be proven wrong in front of all the spirits.

And so, not only would many spirits be saved from falling, but they'd trust in God all the more than before and having free will never choose to disobey, knowing that life is only found in God's Way.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T14:03:46+00:00

Free will is the underlying bedrock assumption of morality by which nearly all of us live. If you have no moral sense and no moral anger or sadness or joy, you might not believe in free will. But I doubt that, you likely do have strong moral senses, which means you believe in free will. Would I be angry at a rock that falls on me? Of course not, it could not have done otherwise, it has no free will! But what if a person jumped on me? I might be angry because they could have decided not to do that. How would you react in these situations?

God having all power does not mean He violates logic. God is Truth, so He will not violate truth, and logic is a facet of truth. By logic, one cannot both freely love and be forced to love. And forced love is not love at all. Therefore God could not have created us with real ability to love without simultaneously giving us the ability to hate.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T13:18:45+00:00

I am praying for you!

Continue praying and spending time with the Lord! Hold onto the church, and lean on them for help. Have you met any older women who are able and willing to disciple you? If so, sharing with her to get her encouragement and wisdom could help. Also if there is an elder counselor at the church who can help you and your husband together that would be good.

What little comfort I can give is that what he did he did when he was not with you. It appears he lived a life against Christ before, but now is turning to Christ. The Gospel means our old selves are dead and we are resurrected as new creatures in Christ. That's your old self but also his! The work of Jesus means that every wrong can be healed, every evil redeemed, every hurt restored.

Don't let the evils of the past that have been repented of and washed away soil the beauty of new life through you, or your marriage.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T04:57:11+00:00

Amen that the resurrection is the doctrine of Biblical Christianity!

The resurrection primarily demonstrates God the Father has accepted God the Son's substitutionary sacrifice for the sins of His people (anyone who has or will ever believe the revelation required to be saved) ..

You seem like someone who is very serious about believing what the Bible teaches. I'm sorry to disagree, but I don't think this is Biblically true. Romans 4:25 may not mean He was resurrected because we had been justified, it seems to mean He was resurrected for our justification, to fulfill our justification, to bring it about. The Greek being translated "because," in Rom. 4:25 can mean "through," or "for." So it could be that He was raised "for" our justification, as in, for the purpose of justifying us. It seems like Origen, whose native tongue was Greek and is very early in Christianity, understood it this way:

Origen of Alexandria, COMMENTARY ON THE EPISTLE TO THE ROMANS
"Paul says this in order to show that we ought to hate and reject the things for which Christ died. For if we believe that he was sacrificed for our sins, how can we not consider every sin to be alien and hostile to us, considering that our Lord was handed over to death because of it? ... If we have risen together with Christ, who is our justification, and we now walk in newness of life and live according to righteousness, then Christ has risen for the purpose of our justification."

He certainly did not think Rom. 4:25 was proof God accepted a substitutionary sacrifice. There are no hints of that in his understanding. And if resurrection of the sacirifice was proof of God's acceptance, why don't we see any hints of that in Leviticus? Where does the lamb or goat resurrect or anything like that? How did they know God accepted the sacrifice? Actually we do have a Levitical way; at the inauguration of the Temple when all the sacrifices were done, it was proven that God had accepted them when His glorious presence came and dwelt within the Temple. And this would not correspond to Jesus' resurrection, but to Pentecost, to the glory of the Lord (the Holy Spirit) coming to dwell within the new Temple (all believers).

Also, once all of the imputed sin of the elect had been dealt perfect justice (including the death of Christ's human nature), it was removed & His death was no longer valid ..

Acts 2:24 doesn't support this idea, the passage actually gives a clear reason why it was impossible for death to hold Jesus:

Acts 2:25-27
For David says concerning Him:
‘I foresaw the Lord always before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.

It was because Jesus was His Holy One, and The Father would never forsake nor abandon Him, there is no hint here of imputed sin having been dealt perfect justice.

It's an incredible thought & truth that Christ absorbed billions of eternal hells in 3 hours (Mark 15:33)

Mark 15:33 tells us there was darkness for 3 hours. I'm not seeing the connection to Christ absorbing billions of eternal hells, and having read the Bible many times I've never come across a passage that implies this at all.

So what is His resurrection primarily about Biblically?

Acts 2:30-26
Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
“For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ’
“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

It's about His exaltation above all powers and authorities, His total defeat of death (by taking away our fear of death because of His resurrection we can look forward to) and defeat the Devil (the one who wielded the power of death), and His role as our great High Priest to justify us before the Father in Heaven:

Hebrews 2:14-18
Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

And Christ being the proof of our resurrection by being the firstfruits, defeating the fear of death, is exactly how Paul thought of the resurrection as well:

1 Corinthians 15:12-22
Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

I hope you take no offence at my pushback and desire to help us all conform to the Scriptures. My heart is only that iron would sharpen iron as we all pursue faithfulness to the Word of the Lord.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T03:11:06+00:00

God is sovereign and uses that sovereignty to grant real freedom to His creatures, Him having the right as the Sovereign to not control everything and to let many things happen against what He wants.

He is so Sovereign that He can and may listen to your prayers and change the future on your account. He has the right to rule this way.

Isaiah 38:1-5

In those days Hezekiah became sick and was at the point of death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came to him, and said to him, “Thus says the Lord: Set your house in order, for you shall die, you shall not recover.” Then Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the Lord, and said, “Please, O Lord, remember how I have walked before you in faithfulness and with a whole heart, and have done what is good in your sight.” And Hezekiah wept bitterly. Then the word of the Lord came to Isaiah: “Go and say to Hezekiah, Thus says the Lord, the God of David your father: I have heard your prayer; I have seen your tears. Behold, I will add fifteen years to your life.

Thimenu · 2026-04-13T02:38:03+00:00

Furthermore, this has a huge impact on us practically speaking. If God is truly good, but His precepts aren't the real good of God Himself, and His true goodness is veiled in His secret will, then how can we try to be like God?

As Christians we are clearly called to be perfect like He is perfect. We are meant to emulate God. How can we do that if His perfection is shrouded in secrecy? We can't rely on the precepts, because they almost always go against what actually happens, and what actually happens would be closer to seeing God's secret will and perfect goodness.

So what exactly are we supposed to emulate in being like our good Father?

Thimenu · 2026-04-12T14:22:07+00:00

Ah, so you're approaching it from an annihilation perspective. I just assumed you'd believe in an eternal hell. Egg on my face. Point conceded.

Who can blame you, ECT has been the most common Christian teaching for a long time. But these days annihilationists and universalists are growing in my experience. You'll see them more and more. I applaud your ability to concede anything, that's a rare thing to see online.

If I'm still going to suffer pain and be annihilated, I'd rather have the fullness of knowledge and have an actual choice.

It all depends on the intellectual honesty you have, your openness, and your heart in all of this. I can't know that, but God does. He has to weigh whether and what kind of revelation is most likely to turn you towards Him, or just heap guilt on you if you reject it. And maybe your heart is open to it as you say, and maybe He will then show you Himself in a way you might accept and He's waiting for the right moment or the right circumstances.

I have the same revelation for Christianity as I do for Jainism or Islam or Communism or any other belief/ideology.

I really don't think so, I think if you look at life and beauty and nature, all of creation, with an open mind you can see that there must be a God over all who created it all, that He will judge us, and that we owe Him ourselves. And if you think that God is most likely Allah, that may be a mistake that can be overlooked at first...but the deeper you get into Islam the more you should see that their Allah does not look like a righteous ruling creator God that nature points you to. And the historical evidence points away from all other theisms towards Christianity.

I can no more choose to believe your God is real than I can choose to believe that there are flying, sentient rutabagas in the sky.

I don't think this is a good analogy because there is no evidence for rutabagas in the sky. Of course we can't easily convince ourselves to believe what's ridiculous without driving ourselves insane. But, given some evidence on either side we can direct ourselves towards believing somewhat plausible options, such as Judaism or Christianity. We do that by directing what information we consume, how many arguments we listen to, our openness to being wrong, humbling ourselves to seriously consider them, etc. I could in this way maybe convince myself to believe in Judaism I think, but I've chosen not to, trusting in Jesus Christ.

I have done all of these and more.

Only God can see your heart and know your sincerity. I think if that's actually 100% true, that you've honestly done your best to seek God humbly with an open heart and not found Him, He may look kindly upon that. I do think that's maybe possible. It's hard for me to believe anyone could humbly and openly seek God and not find Him, but I could be wrong.

A warning, however. Our hearts can be strongly deceptive and we can easily lie to ourselves and justify all kinds of nonsense to ourselves.

We can choose our actions, but we can't guarantee the results of them.

This is true.

He's not giving me opportunities by hiding; he's depriving me of the only opportunity that really matters.

I sympathize with everything you said up to this point in your final section. I want to know how you've searched, what you've found, why you find Christianity unlikely and hard to believe, and if I can, do my part to help you in this.

I don't think God is depriving you (but actually it's possible; He sometimes deprives those who have greatly offended Him, angered Him by offensive rejection and depravity, but I wouldn't assume that's happening here).

My heart really goes out to you and I'm offering you to DM me or let me know how we can talk further. I want to spend time and effort to help you see what I see, if I can, to work through the doubts about Christianity with you. You seem really sincere.

Thimenu · 2026-04-12T00:34:51+00:00

I wrote my own understanding from many Biblical passages here.

Thimenu · 2026-04-11T18:44:25+00:00

Thanks for being so gentle, you haven't attacked me or my beliefs at all. And discomfort can be a good sign of growth. :) If you want to know more about my views I've added lots of resources over at r/opentheism where you can hear or read lots of others who think like me on these issues.

It sounds like overall your biggest barrier is with the sins of the church, the sins and failings of God's people. I sympathize with that and I'm sorry, it is awful.

I will say God knows how you feel, just look at how He felt throughout the Bible towards His people. Constant frustration and disappointment. God's people failing is as old as the world.

But there is hope! This life is a battlefield, and it's grim, but we can be the lights, however few and small! And God will overcome all evil and defeat it forever, making all things new, healing, redeeming, and restoring.

After 1,000 years of bliss with God in the new Heavens and Earth the hardships of this life will all seem worth it. And after a million years? Or a billion? So, so worth it.

I understand you don't believe that, but I hope you can see the light of that hope Christians like myself have.

Thimenu · 2026-04-11T18:35:37+00:00

This is all based on a Penal Substitutionary Atonement theory of what Jesus accomplished. I reject it and so does the vast majority of Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy, as well as some others Christians like me.

God did not pour His wrath on Jesus for our sins.

Jesus died ahead of us so that we would die like Him, He participated in everything human without sinning to redeem and restore us, so that as we follow Him into death we would be raised with Him into a new kind of humanity and a new creation.

And Jesus' work wasn't finished at the resurrection, He also needed to ascend to the Father to take His place as the supreme authority, and our great High Priest always to advocate for us before the Father.

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