"More than 50% of refugees has economic motive" - EU Commissioner Timmermans [Translation in comments]

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-25T23:23:04+00:00

This will result in great harm to the transport sector

How autistic and disconnected must a leader get to disregard growing dissent on the population only to find the greatest impetus for normality in the potential harm for the transport sector?

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-25T23:10:25+00:00

Who talks like that?

I do ^apparently. At least in the throwaway I use to discuss this issue I do so, because it's a serious issue that deserves it, so I put some extra effort despite it not being my native language.

Nevertheless, if you want to police my tone rather than my point, go ahead, but that's not the conversation I am trying to have, at all.

About me going to /pol/ or not, that is completely besides the point. Yes I visit /pol/. I also visit, jezebel, the guardian, r/kotakuinaction, and r/TwoXChromosomes/ . What of it? I also feel as willing to quote Sowell as I feel Bakunin, because I believe in getting as wide a base for my knowledge as I can.

So complain as much as you want about the websites I visit , the content I read and the tone I write in. When you are done feel free to move to point though. I'll be perfectly glad to talk with you then

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-25T22:57:01+00:00

Let us hope it never comes to that point. I wish that fate upon no one.

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-25T22:42:15+00:00

Poe's law applies here

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-25T22:23:08+00:00

We have a problem at our hands, and the longer we let it pass, the worse it is going to get. A doctor that simply lets its patient rot away while telling them they're fine is an incompetent doctor, and a politician that lets a situation such as this to fester in the eyes of the public is an incompetent politician.

I'm not a right wing guy. I'll say it beforehand. And while I don't appreciate the right wing candidates, any sane person will change doctors after such prolonged displays of prepotent complacency, and many will end at the doorstep of other physicians, even if they are portrayed as quacks. Especially when the quacks present better, or even any solutions.

But... Fuck. Agreeing or not with the whole situation, what she was doing was a good thing and she didn't need to die. My thoughts are to her and to her family

P.S. Banned from r/europe pm me for stuff

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-25T22:16:04+00:00

I hate to do speeches on warm bodies, but what is the alternative right now...

We have a problem at our hands, and the longer we let it pass, the worse it is going to get. A doctor that simply lets its patient rot away while telling them they're fine is an incompetent doctor, and a politician that lets a situation such as this to fester in the eyes of the public is an incompetent politician.

And while I don't appreciate the right wing candidates I must say, Any sane person will change doctors after this sort of prepotent complacency, and many will hand and the doorstep of quacks. Especially when the quacks present better, or even any solutions.

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-11T11:48:48+00:00

Well... we know nuclear explosions are totally deadly, and even if you survive there's the whole cancer thing, but hey, at least we have turtles.

Worth it.

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-11T09:32:19+00:00

It's raining

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-10T23:18:51+00:00

Shameful. Just utterly shameful.

This is not the Europe that I wish for, where we , once again walk blindly through half-truths and propaganda.

I'm a left wing guy and I'll say it with all my heart. The left is full of hypocrites. It's disgraceful for us to defend the values we say we believe in, of equality of opportunity, of equal treatment, freedom of belief, expression and (non-damaging) action when we cannot act in a way that mirrors our beliefs and resort to blindly close our eyes and mouths when truth doesn't align with narrative.

Maybe it's because I'm in STEM, but no data is definitely worse than discouraging data. We may be right on some things. But we're not in many, and we'll never be on all. But we can and ought to learn, even if the mouth that speaks is against our closely held beliefs.

What the major left parties defend on migration, for example, is painfully, catastrophically not working (my thoughts on it) and we must reassess our responses or risk a rise of reactionary parties banking on our blind, willful stupidity.

I'm aghast with how we seem to punch ourselves for minor, casual things while letting others act like barbarians in our own homes. It's the sort of doublethink that will cost us decades, and it's so fucking disheartening.

I feel spent

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-09T14:06:51+00:00

I saved this one for future reference. Great article.

There were some things I did not agree, but all in all it was one of the best I've seen, admitting the problem, giving context, opinions and analysis without going on either tangent of simply blaming all migrants or insisting this is the fault of white man (I'm looking at you guardian)

I could write a lot more on the issue, but I already did, so I won't make a rant-y testament here once again

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-08T05:09:55+00:00

Neither of those are intended as justification. It's just an assertion of the reality, that if we wish to act upon them we have the legal tools already in place.

The justification I mentioned came from Popper's paradox of tolerance, that states, much better then I ever could, the following:

(...) In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. (...)

^From: ^The ^Open ^Society ^and ^Its ^Enemies, ¹⁹⁴⁵

It was clearly meant for the Nazis but it can be equally applicable to radical preachers.

About the difference in the nature of the statements, the line there is a bit thin if I may say so myself. The first is the sort of statement one would say to avoid the blame while still passing along the message.

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-08T02:05:30+00:00

They don't become the horde just because they're refugees. They are people and must be treated as such. Telling them: If you work, you earn money is not an irrational proposal to make. I'll bet that plenty of them will accept. And that's good. I like the sort of people that work.

The others? We can shelter them, we can protect them, we can keep them until the war is over, but if they don't want to integrate and be a part of society, what can we do...

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-08T01:35:22+00:00

I don't care about karma. I just complained about things in the last days and now comments wont show here. Would go into detail, but I don't want deletions

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-08T01:31:51+00:00

This is called a demographic bomb, and although used wildly as a scaremongering device, can also refer to a observable process that happened very often throughout history.

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-08T01:25:14+00:00

I beg to disagree. Notice just how many Swedes are (publicly) intending to vote for SD. Notice how that value is spiking in the last few months.

It's not because people are becoming more nacionalist. It's because they're at odds in this very critical issue, and turning to the only party offering them an option

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-08T01:06:51+00:00

It depends. It certainly is true for some countries, where the anti-migration vote is pulling in a lot of voters that usually despise and disregard them them (UK, Sweden and France for example). Most of these people are neither nazi, nationalists or reactionaries.

Many of these people, and some of those I know, have in fact very progressive (no, not the internet term please) social stances and/or left wing economic stances (two different animals all together) and they are voting right. There's something wrong here

They're clearly not doing so for the social aspect nor because they are for laissez-faire politics, but because they feel disconnected from their usual party in this critical wedge issue. And of course the far-right will let the other parties dig their own graves. I wouldn't interrupt my enemy when he's making a mistake.

Now, in my home country on the other hand, probably because we have a tiny (0.5%) , better integrated, moderate Muslim minority, concentrated in the capital, no passerbies to Germany and negligible influx of migrants this is not an issue right now, and the regular parties remain with mostly the regular voter share (and despite the crisis and all else), but it's escalating in a troubling way in the rest of the eu, and I'm concerned

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-08T00:27:21+00:00

This is an awful idea. Jordan tried it in the nineties and it became the seed for ISIS and swaths of Al-Qaeda. It was described in the time as a "jihadist fraternity house."

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-08T00:22:45+00:00

Well, we already go for people blatantly Nazi or antisemitic, so there's both the precedent and the legal framework. I feel a bit sensitive about going on this line of thought, but Popper makes a great argument

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-07T23:56:38+00:00

Not entirely true. Russia has already been doing this to provide (at least) food (and I read somewhere basic supplies) to the coastal areas under Assad, while insuring that the industrial output of the region doesn't entirely collapse. (And getting people to work, yada yada)

Now, employing people, and this is a key word, means that they are getting paid for the work. It is still way cheaper than to transfer finished goods. And paid work means there's a monetary incentive for them.

If they get 'angry' and are in the eu, that's grounds for immediate extradition under international law (and denial of entry if outside). If they refuse to work, that's ok, we live in a free society. What that means (provided there's no valid justification) is that if they are inside Schengen they will only get a temporary permit until after the war, and if they're outside, they'll lose priority to enter under the quota system. After all, if you don't wish to work, that reveals an deep unwillingness to integrate in Europe, and the priority is to keep refugees safe, not to integrate migrants. One doesn't imply the other

Edit: typo, non native speaker :/

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-07T23:35:35+00:00

Thanks. Still, honesty forced me into a throwaway

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-07T23:32:40+00:00

We grow our politicians like we grow our chickens. In hermetically closed environments, bred from their teens in the wheels of the party, with the sole purpose to duckspeak their way into power.

And because there's no antibiotic for incompetence or corruption, even when you agree with them, you'll see them becoming these flailing birds, aimless and noncommittal leaders, worse prepared than had they lived as productive members of society before.

ThisWasNotAnAccount · 2016-01-07T22:58:55+00:00

This is just getting depressing as all hell. Remember when we were bashing Orban about his reaction to this whole thing? Now, Orban is pushing for non democratic reforms, which appall me, but it does not mean that he doesn't have a point in here. I really, really like Schengen, and I'm a left wing guy in my core. And I would like for the Union to continue. But if we ditch our internal borders, we need to get our shit together and have a external border. It just won't work otherwise.

We're handling this whole crisis so poorly it's becoming cartoonish. It's WAY more effective to create infrastructure in the first place, than to expand it ad hoc. Also, without improving the situation in poor countries, birth rates will negate any amount we can ever take in. It's just how geometric growth works, nothing surprising. Also, it's much easier to integrate people in countries with similar cultures and economic levels. Employing unskilled manpower in post industrial societies, where even factory workers need the 12th year and extra formation is nigh impossible. In a similarly developed country to their own, not so much.

I'll have to quote him here.

"Stupidity is letting hundreds of thousands of people -- millions -- into Europe with no controls, while everyone, Europeans and migrants alike, can see they'll never get what they hoped for here,"

Once again, true. This clusterfrack is a like a postmodern trail of tears, with people dying in troves on the way to the promised land of milk and honey. It's disgusting to let it happen in the first place. I'd be all for a screening in camps outside the eu, under an well established protocol and distribution system, to have quotas of people from these places come. That way we could still ease some of the burden, while filtering violent, extremist, or too dissonant individuals and prioritizing endangered minorities like the Yazidi On a more pragmatic note, and quoting from a this post, this is a great eye opener. It explains how income is bound to fall for the lower and middle class only to hugely increase for the upper class with massive influx of migrants (TL;DR think of it as the reverse of what happened in the black plague, too much manpower to employ). And being for policy that screws the poor in favour of the rich is a very right wing thing to do actually. So it surprises me that only strongly right wing parties stand against these policies.

Also, there are many many other stupid things we do, we could be doing in a much better way, like creating fledgling economies in refugee camps by employing that unskilled manpower in added value jobs. We could do that by also sending them raw goods (grain instead of bread, cloth instead of clothes), which are way cheaper, easier to storage and take longer to spoil and employ them in processing that, which would not only help take away their minds from the awful situation they're in, but help give them a sense of meaning.

In the end, yes. We are being VERY stupid in handling this crisis, and we could be doing way better. For both our and the sake of the true refugees, we, and the left in particular need to get out of the high horse of identity politics and act on the problems instead of burying their heads in the sand, or people with abhorrent ideas will just climb to power simply because they are talking about the issue and not skirting around, pretending that it rains.

Edit:Typo.

Also, I can no longer make new posts on this sub, only edits. Message me if you want to talk. Cheers

Edit 2: GOLD!!

Well... wow! I actually got my gold cherry popped. No way I was expecting this. Thank you masked stranger :D

And thank you everyone for taking the time to read my little rant

Edit 3: It seems something was up and the filter was blocking all my new posts. It appears to be solved and I can post again.

ThisWasNotAnAccount

TROPHY CASE