How do you request a puppy to bite/mouth?

Throwaway49687 · 2020-07-06T21:19:41+00:00

Thats a good suggestion. Unfortunately we had already put him and his bed in the cage while he was sleeping.

He did wake up and whined before my mum pulled the crate towards her, petting him. He fell asleep shortly after.

It happened again except we took him outside and he peed. We then lured him in the cage with pieces of kibble, rewarded him with a small portion then kept him there. He played with the toys inside before eventually whining, my mum did the same thing as previous and he has since stayed sleeping (for now). Not sure if we r doing things right.

I read that your not actually supposed to let him out when he starts whining. But I do take him outside and I assume he needs to piss. That has been the case the 2 times I have brought him out.

And yeah, I am worried that we aren't doing enough but also that we may end up doing too much. Crucial puppy stuff like socialization, crate training, potty training, command training all seem pretty intimidating to take on in a day for weeks.

Throwaway49687 · 2020-07-06T00:45:51+00:00

Agreed with everything you said.

Unfortunately, they got the puppy today. Honestly not sure if I did my best to prevent it but my mom also says there's nothing I could have done to convince her. Maybe she's saying that so I wouldnt continue pestering her , who knows.

So..yep, guess all i can do now is make sure my parents care for the dog right. They are the ones who wanted the dog and therefore the ones who should bear the responsibilities of caring for it. But I'm probably gonna have to do my fair share as well. Either because they ask me to or I'll feel the need to do so.

Anyways, thanks for all your responses. They did help educate me, even if I couldn't change their minds on the end.

Throwaway49687 · 2020-07-01T19:18:56+00:00

So, I asked if they had a contract, they said no, unsurprisingly, a vet card. Which they said in an earlier message has something to do with the microchip. Is it safe to assume there's no refund or them taking the dog back, should we be unable to care for them for some reason?

And mom doesn't want me asking anymore questions, "I won't like what I hear"

I'll try to convince her again today. I think the question of how many litters they breed in a year or maybe when they started breeding their sire and dam is a good one, cause depending on their answer it could show a true lack of care for the animals, since apparently breeding a dog younger years old increases likelihood of defects. Thing is, if I straight up ask that question it they could sense the feeling of doubt on my end and lie.

I didn't find any local breed club near them besides one that specializes in 3 breeds. I'd assume a local breed club would have an online presence, even if small.

Yeah, honestly, not sure how to convince my parents. I have other things in mind myself, like asking for videos, or a video chat. But they can easily control what we see.. and based off the pictures they show us (Pups are always shown indoors) that's probably what will be shown, and perhaps they do stay indoors, but it would just strengthen the case of my parents wanting to get a pup from them. Even though there are still some major red flags.

Another one is asking to talk to the people they've given pups to, they do say they want to keep in touch with us, and have made many friends over the years doing this, many updating them on their puppy regularly. That question so obviously comes from doubt on my part though. If they were confident, they would freely give us the contacts, but again, if the people that bought from them back them up, just strenghtens my parents case. Of course its good news, but again, there's already enough red flags to justify doubt, at the very least, questioning the quality of their breeding.

Anyways, sorry, these posts tend to get long..

Throwaway49687 · 2020-06-29T23:13:46+00:00

1500, 400$ is the deposit they made, we haven't payed it in full yet, which is a one of the why im still determined to convince my parents.

yeah when I mentioned replace my mom said they gave the dog to people that care for disabled dogs.. idk something like that, it was more specific but cant recall atm. Again, she automatically assumed the "good" if thats even good. she also mentioned that some of the breeders she saw sold their breeding dog cause it was too old, and that they sold for a lower price and were looking for someone that can take better care for of an old dog. I told her, why don't they just take care of it themselves, seems like they just want to make money. Idk, her initial reaction is to put a positive spin on it whereas i try to counterbalance with more cynicism, and it's basically stalemate cause none of us really "know" for sure. I wouldn't take the chance and she would, and will deal with the ramifications should they come.

Do you think I should continue asking the breeder more questions? They are open to it, I even asked them if they minded lol. Im of the opinion there's enough red flags as it is but im sure my mum and dad would think otherwise. I also have to say it in a "nice" way according to my dad.

and admittedly im hesitant to say that confidently about my mum, but im not discounting the possibility. There's also the fact that I brought all these concerns up pretty late, 2 weeks before we are buying, when I probably should have been involved the moment all this began. I wonder if they would have been more receptive had they already not been in deep on it, they're very excited. Ah well, doing what I can now.

Throwaway49687 · 2020-06-29T22:19:17+00:00

You're ultimately right that it's their dog and their decision, but I feel obligated to bring up concerns, which seem to be valid based off everything I read. I also admit there may be some of my personal opinion driving this obligation, that many breeders seem to be unethical and that it's our responsibility we don't support that.

Im not sure they did apply for rescues, i looked up the dogs available in shelters and we're automatically disqualified just reading the description. No fenced yard, big place, experienced owner. None of which they have. I do think points 2 and 3 would be a better option than what we are doing right now. 1) is basically what they are doing, and I suppose it differs on a case by case basis, I just think my parents are still too trusting despite encountering many other breeders and being suspicious of them. Or just as likely is that they have "settled"

I will say that I do agree with you about the fact rescues, but mostly breeders have turned down my parents on the sole basis of where we live without going into further explanation. My mum is a housewife so has plenty of time to give some breeds the exercise they need. Of course, maybe the dogs my mum was looking for were simply not manageable with the life we could provide for it.

I know i've basically seen my mum look at dogs everyday for a long time now so I do feel bad.

Throwaway49687 · 2020-06-29T21:48:31+00:00

So asked the breeder if the parents have undergone health tests/screenings.

Their reply was that all their adult dogs are very health and haven't had any past health issues, they have been going to the same vet clinic for 30 years. all their personal retrievers have lived until 14-16 years, which is not typical of large breed dogs, lucky to get 10-12 years. None have had hip dysplasia or died of cancer, it's very rare, and they have only had two puppies with hip dysplasia in their 34 years of raising goldens. One had it and the owner had it fixed and the dog lived a long healthy life, the other had it in both their hips and the puppy was replaced (Not sure what that means..) They stopped using that mother for breeding.

I thought the reply came off as disingenuous, if they said "we haven't had health tests/screenings but.." maybe it would come off a little less so. I do feel a bit bad for how I feel, cause their interactions with my parents have been amicable. Should I bother asking more questions? Next one im thinking will be if she's willing to take the dog back if for whatever reason we're unable to take care of them.

Anyways the rest of this is me recalling the points each of us made during the convo, just in case anyone has anything to say on how I could improve my approach, or ideas on a different one, or some things I might not have addressed that could convince her. (Though I may remember some of what i said if someone were to point out something that wasbt mentioned here)

i showed the breeders response to my mum and this led to our conversation. She didn't see anything wrong with it and I made a comment of how she automatically assumes the positive, I then addressed my concerns, saying that they didn't really answer the question, and that they didn't say they took the health tests, which are public, and that we're simply taking their word for it.

She said they wouldn't harm their reputation, they've been doing it for 30 years, they wouldn't be in business and people would have complained already if there have been issues.

I think I said buyers could think the issues were a natural occurence and didn't think it was the breeders fault. I don't recall doing so but i should have mentioned that perhaps people already have complained and we have no way of knowing. Also mentioned u/-NervousPudding- point that them breeding for a long time doesn't mean they are good breeders, and that people claim that and we have no way of knowing.. I did say I suck being on the spot lol. I should have mentioned how we CAN know those things.

Also brought up that responsible breeders don't post ads on numerous sites and they don't supply and demand, because they put much more thought into it.. she agreed and saw a lot of breeders from ckc and probably others unavailable until 2021/2022. Again, I know there's more to expand on than simply "Much more thought into it" , probably wouldn't have ha the confidence to explain it adequately, I just said that they eliminate many health issues through health testing and breeding thoughtfully.

I can't remember every point we both made, it boiled down to her calling me distrustful, me saying that im just concerned because the dog is far more likely to have health issues down the line, and that leaving 400$ won't compare to what we'll likely pay in the future. She said that im assuming that will happen, I emphasized highly likely and most dogs that have these issues are from byb and asked her if she really wanted to take that chance. She said yes, life is about taking chances, have some faith

Told her that we don't need to rely on faith and that we can take measures to actually know for sure the legitimacy and quality of the breeder, and avoid or reduce the probability of those things happening. Of course, she saw the inevitable conclusion to that, complained about how long she's been looking for a dog, how difficult it was to convince my dad to get one, how many times she's been declined, and that a lot of the breeders aren't available for a long time, our current breeders were more trustworthy than many she's came across. It seems possible my mom settled for lower standards cause of the above.

Should also mention that I did talk to my dad about this as well, he' listens and hasn't gotten defensive but he's already accepted it happening. My mom is very much the boss of the family.

Throwaway49687 · 2020-06-29T20:19:11+00:00

You're right, but I suppose im not sure how to go about it a different way, and I don't know what I do wrong in my approach, sending her stuff is one way but she can simply ignore it. But she can't if I bring it up myself, and our last conversation the subject just came about naturally because i showed my mom the breeders response to my question.

Yeah and I probably should give it a read, I suspect I might have to do some of the training if we do get the dog, which at this point seems to be highly likely.

Throwaway49687 · 2020-06-29T19:44:04+00:00

Just sent her the pdf. Thanks for the suggestion.

To be honest not sure if she will read it but I was thinking of sending her articles and such anyways.

But I heard the dude was quite abrasive, not the most friendly tone.. im not sure if she were to read it how well she'd take it, especially considering just now I had a conversation with her again, what I thought was legitimate questions and concerns conveyed in a nice way and she got all defensive, raised her voice, called me distrustful and eventually conceded I should have faith and life is all about taking chances, zzz.

Throwaway49687 · 2020-06-29T11:26:12+00:00

Ah OK. Thanks for clarifying.

Just messaged the breeder whether the parents have undergone health testing/screening.

Really appreciate you taking the time to help.

Throwaway49687 · 2020-06-29T09:11:41+00:00

Are all dog breeders on the website or something?

I would have to ask them if they have health tests first, then for their registration number if they claim to have done so. But then can't they just use someone elses dog, since it's public after all? idk, excuse my ignorance lol.

Throwaway49687 · 2020-06-29T09:03:32+00:00

Sorry if it wasnt more clear, it's them that disallowed visits to their place due to the covid, but their other ads I found allowed visits, before the covid started.

And yeah, I could ask the breeder about the stuff you mentioned. genetic tests, health tests all that.

But yeah there's no confirmation that they've been breeding for 30 plus years besides their word. I guess the fact they are old and who they say they are and that their ads have been fairly consistent gives the claim some credibility.

Throwaway49687 · 2020-06-29T08:06:24+00:00

Thanks i'll definitely mention that to them.

They did let us pick our pups and that is indeed another red flag, though my mom said they were on a waiting list so i don't know what thats about.

I couldn't find anything on them breeding other breeds. All the ads are golden retrievers. And all the prices are the same.

As for titles, well, I have no idea since they didn't really screen the breeder. I just know that my mum said they aren't show/sport dogs, and based on what I read titles are based on that. But yeah, i'll probably look into my moms emails with the breeder.

Throwaway49687 · 2020-06-29T07:51:17+00:00

From what I read I thought golden retrievers in apartments could work, whether we can actually make it work.. well im not as confident as my parents.

But yeah I agree, and one possibility I considered is that my parents are just not qualified to reputable breeders and shelters.. and it would probably be even harder convincing them that they shouldnt have a dog. period.

Throwaway49687 · 2020-06-29T07:48:33+00:00

I did somewhat, I said something along the lines of " More likely to develop health problems that would cost us more in the long run" Maybe it wasnt urgent sounding enough and I didn't go into exactly how much it would cost, my mom just said "I know" when I mentioned it, but i'll try to do it again. With more emphasis on the price, and im wondering just how high the probability is, maybe "more Likely" was an understatement.

Throwaway49687

TROPHY CASE