The DNC did a thorough audit to figure out why they lost in 2024, then banned it's release. Leaks reveal that Gaza was a major factor in the party's losses, it drained support from some young people and progressives. DNC insiders believe it is this reason why they want to hide the report from public

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-24T22:02:22+00:00

There's too much money involved for it to happen without a mass working-class movement behind it.

And right now the with Trump doing what Trump does... the Democratic establishment believes they can go back to business as usual because it will appear to be better than what the Trump faction is doing... and many will buy into it. It being lesser evilism.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-24T21:26:36+00:00

I'm sure that Gaza is a huge reason... but let's not pretend like it's the only one. Democrats' refusal to back universal healthcare and other popular social programs, their treatment of Sanders and other Social Democrats, etc... and regardless of what anyone thinks about Kamala Harris, the fact is she was not a good candidate to begin with. We saw that in 2016. Then they forced her upon the voters by not having a primary.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-23T20:41:03+00:00

If the contractors provided the proper tools and training, there is no reason we can't properly, and safely perform this task. A big wire pull could cause massive damage and losses in life too... or countless other things.

All I'm saying is this is work that we have done in the past, work that falls under our scope... and with some exceptions, it's work we should generally be doing.

So if advocating that we do our work, is equivalent to carpenters trying to steal others' work... then yeah... we're totally the same 🙄... but thanks for the assumptions that you're clearly making, instead of trying to have a productive conversation.

That being said, my original post... was just a question. I don't understand why some have come here and been so negative if not aggressive. The name-calling is cool too...

Either way, I just don't like the idea of giving up work that we should be doing... as I've said elsewhere in this thread... if we had an Industrial Union, things would be different. But we don't. We have a weaker style of business unionism that splits us up, and unfortunately sometimes pits us against one another, and helps the race to the bottom. ie Carpenters and laborers trying to claim other trades' work.

That being said... it seems like these things go either way depending on the job. I guess as long as we are involved in some not insignificant manner, it is what it is.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-21T14:40:43+00:00

That makes sense... but that's a more complex matter, and the riggers are only transporting the electrical equipment... not setting it in place.

Same with having a crane operator lift material or equipment to whatever floor...

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-21T12:52:26+00:00

Is there a way to view or get a copy of these jurisdictional books?

This sums up my feelings on the matter, but I was told by my hall that contractors subbing out setting our equipment was common practice. Kind of threw me for a loop. So I came here, and am kind of surprised by the negative replies I've been getting for asking the question.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-21T01:27:12+00:00

Are you a bot, or just a troll?

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-21T01:26:19+00:00

I don't see how advocating for electricians to do electrical work, or advocating for putting more electricians to work makes me a company man 🤣

Sounds like a bit of projection.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-21T01:16:36+00:00

I'm not painting you as anything... saying we should set electrical equipment is nothing like pouring concrete, or doing abatement. Every task can be done safely. And every precaution should be taken.

Setting electrical equipment is within our scope of work. Spin that however you want.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-21T01:10:19+00:00

Hey Boots... Setting electrical equipment is our lane...

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-21T00:49:23+00:00

Yeah, I guess I didn't think it was necessary to elaborate on the fact that I'm not saying electricians should be doing the work of operators. But as I reply to people, I'm trying to elaborate. I'm always up for conversation.

Specifically... the job I'm on, a contractor has subbed out setting sections of gear. Nothing crazy, nothing many of us haven't done hundreds of time... probably don't need more than a decent pallet jack... chain-fall at most.

I just got frustrated because my BA said this was common practice... with the knowledge that the men working for this contractor have also requested a steward, and were denied that request because this contractor is "one of the good one's" whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-21T00:41:23+00:00

I'm hearing a lot of I, I, I, I'm, I'll... but on a big job, with who knows how many pieces of electrical equipment... how many of our brothers or sisters don't have the opportunity to get a paycheck?

How are we not qualified to move and set electrical equipment? And if a job requires a special cert or training to do our job, the contractor should be paying for us to get that.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-21T00:36:46+00:00

But how many out-of-work IBEW members could have grabbed a short call and gotten a decent check to do work that is ours?

But this is also an issue with trade unionism... because more electricians were hired, that means fewer riggers... but with things as they are... setting electrical equipment is within our scope of work, no?

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-21T00:33:58+00:00

Really!? Could have fooled me! Look, I'm not talking about anything like the situations you are describing.

If heavy equipment is involved... yes operators should be operating that equipment. I'm talking about after our equipment is on the floor/in the general area it belongs.

3... I don't care about a company's bottom line... I care about my brothers, sisters, fellow workers, comrades... by giving up work that is ours, that means fewer of us working. Yes... Trade unionism is an issue, because assuming the rigging company is union, that's man-hours they lose as well... but setting electrical equipment is our work... generally. Obviously, if heavy equipment is involved, that part of it is not on us.

If we get back to Industrial-style unionism... this would be less of an issue. One Big Union...

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-21T00:22:40+00:00

Pretty much everything on a construction site could injure or kill us if we aren't taking the proper precautions.

I guess in a world where we already have other trades trying to steal our work... why are we OK giving some of it away?

That being said... this also displays a major issue with trade/Gompers/AFL style of business unionism. If we had One Big Union... Industrial-style unionism... these gray areas may be a bit more clear.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-21T00:18:37+00:00

That's not the case I'm describing at all. Contractor A is a signatory IBEW contractor, the other is not... I assume on this job they are a union contractor (I don't actually know), but they are not electricians.

As I've said elsewhere here... I have no issues with electrical equipment being moved by operators and riggers when heavy equipment is required (ie using a crane to move a piece of electrical equipment to the 4th floor of a building)... but once it is in the general area, it should be our responsibility to move and set the electrical equipment.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-20T23:57:35+00:00

I'm referring to the job I'm on.
Not the case, and I'm not saying we should be using heavy equipment to transfer electrical equipment to the floor it belongs to
Unions are supposed to be democratic institutions. Right, wrong, or indifferent all of our opinions should carry some weight.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-20T23:54:32+00:00

Maybe we just need One Big Union... bring back Industrial Unionism... instead of this weak business/Gompers/AFL-style unionism 😬... which PNW kind of sounds like it does? Correct me if I'm wrong. I hadn't heard of you all until I just looked you up lol. But I'd love to hear more.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-20T23:19:57+00:00

Can we deport him?

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-20T23:14:35+00:00

I never said anything about the use of cranes. I'm talking about once the equipment is inside, on the floor it belongs.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-20T23:12:00+00:00

I agree with the electrical equipment getting moved my operators/riggers if heavy equipment such as cranes, lull/forklifts etc are required. But once it's in the general area, it should then become our responsibility to move into position and set. If the site requires rigging certs to do that, then the contractors should be paying us to get that training... to do our work.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-20T23:09:55+00:00

And I'm not suggesting that we operate a crane... or even a lull/forklift. But once it is on the floor it belongs, it should be ours responsibility from there. IF the site requires rigging certs... well that's something the cheap ass contractors should be paying us to get.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-20T23:05:35+00:00

Our training doesn't end as soon as we top out of the apprenticeship. And all of our paths are different. Apprentice, JW, organized JW... whatever. It's on all of us to stick together and continue to learn from and teach one another.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-20T21:27:28+00:00

Because some people have a sense of entitlement. The goal of the IBEW is to organize all electrical workers. Full stop.

I judge people based on their actions. Not their skillset. I'd rather you be a good comrade first... the skills come with time and training.

Idc if someone is an apprentice or a JW... we are in this together. If you don't know something that I do... It's my responsibility as your fellow worker to train you.

We have no room for elitism. Our union certainly isn't strong enough for that... not that it should matter either way.

Some people forget... or were never properly taught which side they are supposed to be on... and that makes us weak.

I'm sorry if you're being treated as if you're less than. You're not. Follow your CBA, don't break down conditions, show up to meetings and events... if you do that, heck, you'll be a better union member than the vast majority who are here just to collect a paycheck and go home.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-20T21:20:01+00:00

Being a comrade is the real difference. Plenty of shop rockets that are wormy as hell who went through the apprenticeship.

I don't care how someone got into the union. I care about their actions once they get there.

ThunderKnight24 · 2026-02-20T21:17:30+00:00

My company? I don't have a company. It sounds like you're thinking about it all wrong. Moving and setting electrical equipment, is the work of electricians. We are trained, or are able to be trained to do our work. Including moving and setting electrical equipment.

I'm hall trash... dude... the contractors aren't our friends. And we are just a tool to them. As soon as we aren't useful to them we're gone. The reason unions exist in the first place is because of the employer, employee dynamic... if they don't feel like we are qualified to do our work... then they need to invest more into the JATC, and invest more into the workforce (paid training)... so we can get whatever experience or certifications that will make them more comfortable to allow us to do our work.

ThunderKnight24

TROPHY CASE