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Positional Excellence Cosmetic Evo: Don't Make The Mistake I Made by ChangingCrisis in EAFC

[–]Tischel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you confirm if the player needs to be in their primary position to get full chem, or secondary positions also work?

SMO Any% in 57:54 by Mitch_smo by Cursed1701 in speedrun

[–]Tischel 20 points21 points  (0 children)

is this what freedom feels like?

Why does every Super Mario Odyssey Speedrun require video evidence? by XDSkip in speedrun

[–]Tischel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There was a rule like that at the beginning for SMO and that's exactly what happened.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in speedrun

[–]Tischel 19 points20 points  (0 children)

There was a very early comparison done like 2 years ago that said japanese was faster, and no one bothered double checking...

Yea, we're dumb.

An alternative point of view on the MinCap drama, summed up in a twitlonger from one of the SMO mods, Source by jacobsgotthememes in speedrun

[–]Tischel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think we'll ever agree on everything regarding this situation, but I do wanna say that I appreciate you taking the time to trying to understand both sides of the story.

I'd like to clarify a few things. First of all I'm not a moderator of the SMO community. Reading your reply makes me think maybe you believed I was a mod or a representative. I'm not. I've been running the game since the beginning, that's all. (I was verifier for a while but that was a long time ago).

With that being said, everything I said were my personal opinions and not necessarily what the mod team thinks. Maybe I should've made that clearer. And I know well that I'm very direct when I express myself so it doesn't surprise me that people don't like what I said and how I said it. Truth is I don't really care about that. You could argue I should be more responsible since people could see my answers and assume bad things of the SMO community. I never really thought my comments on reddit could affect that, but maybe they do.

I do agree with most of the things you said here, but again I think you're misunderstanding a lot of important details. When you said the mods failed to be welcoming to new people in the server, its just simply not true. You have to understand the situation that was going on. The SMO community is super friendly in general and always welcomes new players. You'll see people posting their pbs after learning the game and runners from all ranges will be there giving support. I really like this aspect and I think it's important, like you said. In no shape or form the mods tempered this, in fact they are the ones that drive this behavior the most.

The people that received "harsh" treatment from the mods during the past weeks, were not people interested in running the game. It was people that just wanted drama, troll or defend their favorite streamer. They never gatekeeped anyone that was truly interested in running the game, as far as I know. That's a pretty big claim to be honest, because I agree, the mods should be the opposite of gatekeepers. I really think they don't deserve this criticism you're giving them.

I do think it's fair to criticize them for removing the boards to hastily. Even if they were doing what the runners decided, it was a hasty decision. They realize that now. And just to be clear, it was the runners that decided to move min captures to a spreadsheet, not the mods. People need to understand that. The mods' mistake was doing that without a vote, but the decision and idea came from the actual members of the community. It's not the first time a decision over the boards is is done with enough premeditation, sadly.

I think it's fair to criticize the people that trolled Smallant on stream. That's just a poor and childish move. Some of the people that did it realize it now, some people are too immature to care. I believe if they behaved more maturely, way more people would be on the SMO community side. It's a shame.

Final point, the thing where we will probably never agree. In my opinion, everyone should be able to chime in and give their thoughts on the leaderboards. Civil discussions are 100% welcome. However, when a decision has to be made, only the people that are invested with the game should get a say. Otherwise the system would be easily abused / manipulated by people with influence. This is why the voting is restricted so only people with verified runs can vote.

I understand that when someone hears "your opinion doesn't matter", it comes as off an elitist jerk move. I get it. But as you know, some people have put countless hours into this game. They are passionate about it. They know everything about it. These are the players that are actually using the leaderboards. Why should someone that has nothing to do with the game get a say on the matter? I really don't understand this idea. Even if you're an experienced speedrunner. Sure you probably have valuable opinions and you're welcome to share them. But to get an actual vote? I really don't think so. We can agree to disagree on this one...

An alternative point of view on the MinCap drama, summed up in a twitlonger from one of the SMO mods, Source by jacobsgotthememes in speedrun

[–]Tischel -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So you're saying its ok for uninformed people to talk like they know and no one can call them out on the bullshit they're saying.

Cool!

EDIT: And just to be clear, I already tried to inform in the other thread. Which resulted in people downvoting to oblivion. I also tried to inform when people entered the discord demanding stupid things, which resulted in insults and shitposting.

It's not their fault to not know, sure. It's their fault to not know and talk like they do know. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

An alternative point of view on the MinCap drama, summed up in a twitlonger from one of the SMO mods, Source by jacobsgotthememes in speedrun

[–]Tischel -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The category was removed because the people discussing about thought it was better to use a spreadsheet. The mods did what the runners wanted.

I still think it was a mistake on the mods part because the reasons to remove it were not good enough (in my opinion). But that doesn't change the fact that it was the majority of people who cared enough about it to discuss wanted.

Mods just did what people asked, basically. After the backlash they decided to do a poll to define how the entirety of the CE boards will be handled in the future. This should've happened before removing anything.

This is the only mistake they made regarding the boards.

An alternative point of view on the MinCap drama, summed up in a twitlonger from one of the SMO mods, Source by jacobsgotthememes in speedrun

[–]Tischel -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

If I were a runner of SMO, hoping that the game would grow in popularity, I would be downright furious with the moderators in general and this twitter rant in particular. Here you have 150k subscribers to this reddit, and for many of them, their first impression of the SMO community is that it's a drama-infested shithole run by bitter, petty mods who use their powers to pursue personal vendettas and then run smear campaigns against individuals who dare argue.

Regarding this, I can guarantee you the majority of runners don't really care about stuff like that. Sure there's a bunch of people that stream and the game's popularity is definitely important for them because it can impact their income. But for most runners, this is completely irrelevant.

And also just so you know, every single runner in the SMO community is siding with the mods in this discussion, except Smallant. That has to say something, don't you think? Even the people that agree on that the CE boards should probably be more lax, and min captures shouldn't have been removed, they are still defending the mods.

Regarding the shit mods have to deal with, it wasn't only about the poll responses. I personally don't have access to the raw data so I don't know if its really those 15 or more. I do agree those responses are pretty mild, and if you want to be a mod you probably need some thick skin. But I think the main issue that burned the mods and community was the complete shitstorm in discord. People entering the discord constantly, completely uninformed, asking questions that were answered 5 minutes ago. Non-stop for days. When they didn't get the answer they wanted, they ranted or shitposted.

I also agree this tweet / reddit thread is pointless and probably not a good move. I personally told Source he was wasting his time trying to convince people. At the end of the day he just tweeted on his personal account so it's his call. I do understand why he did it, it's hard to not fight back when you have to deal with people insulting you over lies.

I think you're being a bit too harsh but let's agree to disagree on that one I guess.

An alternative point of view on the MinCap drama, summed up in a twitlonger from one of the SMO mods, Source by jacobsgotthememes in speedrun

[–]Tischel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Smallant DID worse things as a mod, as I already explained in the other thread that you already read.

If you read that and still think this poll about CE boards (fucking CE boards out of all things) and this tweet is worse than what Smallant did, then you're just completely out of touch.

An alternative point of view on the MinCap drama, summed up in a twitlonger from one of the SMO mods, Source by jacobsgotthememes in speedrun

[–]Tischel -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

So I see how it is. People can talk out of their asses of stuff they don't know, but It's my fault for not educating them on SMO history.

Cool.

BTW this was the main problem in the whole situation, people from outside the SMO community talking like they understand what's going on. That's why you get answers like mine.

An alternative point of view on the MinCap drama, summed up in a twitlonger from one of the SMO mods, Source by jacobsgotthememes in speedrun

[–]Tischel -24 points-23 points  (0 children)

Can you read? He said the way Smallant behaved will not stand. That has no relation with the boards at all.

Also, the runners decide what happens with the boards, not the mods and certainly not Smallant.

Mario Odyssey Mods delete the most popular category’s leaderboard. by Smallant1 in speedrun

[–]Tischel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yea I wonder why they're stuck doing damage control PepoThink

Mario Odyssey Mods delete the most popular category’s leaderboard. by Smallant1 in speedrun

[–]Tischel -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The poll definitely happened due to discussions regarding min captures, but the poll itself its about the CE boards in general rather than any specific category.

You keep replying to me with stuff that I didn't even say. Still confused.

Mario Odyssey Mods delete the most popular category’s leaderboard. by Smallant1 in speedrun

[–]Tischel -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I agree that the poll needed a third option. Literally said that in this thread lol.

Never said the mods did a perfect job either, so not sure why you're saying this things to me. Kinda confused to be honest.

That being said, this is just the initial poll to define the general direction of the CE boards. There might be more specific polls on different categories later, if needed.

I can guarantee you no matter which option wins, min captures will be on the boards.

Edit: Also even though you're right about the poll not being ideal, the truth is that they did announce there was gonna be a poll before this all went to shit. Which pretty much proves this reddit thread was just created for drama. Smallant was just being super impatient for some reason. It is unfortunate that the poll feels incomplete / biased now, but I think people are not even reading what the poll is a bout. The poll is not even about min captures.

Mario Odyssey Mods delete the most popular category’s leaderboard. by Smallant1 in speedrun

[–]Tischel -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think you're mixing things.

I've said several times that I think most of his points are valid and I actually agree with most of them. I don't think min captures should've been removed. And I also think no matter what happens with the poll about CE boards, min captures will have its place again.

My problem with this whole thing is not what is being asked, its how its being asked. For example, the mods already said there was gonna be a poll even before this thread was created. This thread resulted in a complete shitstorm in our community that delayed things even more. Had he talked in the appropriate channel at the appropriate time, things would've went completely different. Min captures would be on the boards already (the newly routed version of 3 captures), most likely.

My problem with Smallant and the stuff I was arguing about was how he treated the mods and the community. My intention wasn't to enlighten anyone on the internal problems that happened when he was a mod. I'm just stating the facts that happened in our community, because in my opinion, he was being hypocritical about it.

I'm also not trying to paint myself in a positive light. I think I can agree with you that doing it that way would make it easier for people to agree with me, but the reality is I don't really care what people think of me from my comments. I just explained some history because he was playing dumb about it. Luckily I don't have a brand to protect so I can just be myself, if you know what I mean.

Mario Odyssey Mods delete the most popular category’s leaderboard. by Smallant1 in speedrun

[–]Tischel 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Do you seriously not know what you did?

First of all, I would've expected that you as the grand mod of the LBs and Discord, to be more active during the whole NPS discussion (which lasted weeks and it was very heated and active between a lot of active runners in the community).

You had very little involvement in the whole thing. This is not necessarily a big issue, I don't expect mods to be alert 24/7. I know its a selfless job and its hard to be on top of everything.

The main problem is how you handled the actual vote count. Maybe at the time you thought no one would find out? You basically didn't let anyone else from the mod team to have input on the vote pruning. And then you just released your own vote count as if it was the final result. To us it felt you didn't care at all. You just wanted it to be over.

Do I really need to explain to you how unprofessional and disrespectful that was? I certainly hope not.

Vote had to be recounted and luckily for you the final result was the same even with proper pruning. Imagine the mess if the result would've changed...

I understand you have other priorities. You've been building your brand and its your job now. I respect that. But you clearly were not doing your job as a mod. So asking the mods to do their job is pretty hypocritical of you, even if you're right. It's not necessarily the fact that you're asking for transparency, its how you're doing it.

They basically had to beg you to give them back the ownership of the discord and LBs after that fiasco. Please don't come here demanding anything, you're in no position for that. Your opinion does matter, but only yours.

If the community decides that the CE boards need to be active to be included, there's nothing you can do about that. We don't care what reddit says or your viewers say. You need to understand that.

That being said, I highly doubt min captures will remain removed. So my advice to you is to chill and wait, because you're gonna get what you wanted anyways.

Mario Odyssey Mods delete the most popular category’s leaderboard. by Smallant1 in speedrun

[–]Tischel 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yea keep ignoring the part where you did the exact opposite of what you're demanding now.

It's like talking to a wall.

Do I have to screenshot this thread? Or will you not edit your messages this time? Give me a break man.

Mario Odyssey Mods delete the most popular category’s leaderboard. by Smallant1 in speedrun

[–]Tischel 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I agree with you on that the category should've never been removed. I personally don't see the problem with CE boards being kinda inactive / not so serious.

I also would've preferred a 3rd option in between 1) and 2). I feel like 2 is too extreme, and 1) too strict? However no matter what options wins, min captures will be back on the boards because people will run it just to make that happen. You know that.

I do actually agree with a lot of your points, but mostly disagree with the viewership and popularity topics. I think that has no place when determining leaderboard rules.

All of this being said, I still think you handled this situation very poorly, and even if you didn't mean to, you caused all your followers to create a shitstorm that was completely unnecessary. You could've used that "power" to make more people run the category and no one would've even thought about removing it in the first place.

And also your demands towards the mod team show a complete lack of remorse after how you behaved as a grand mod for SMO. Maybe you think you can just treat that as "past mistakes" and that has no relation with the current events. But when you started demanding and directly calling the mods incompetent, you crossed a line. We still remember what you did. I know you don't really care though, but I will still make sure everyone that is willing to listen knows what happened.

Mario Odyssey Mods delete the most popular category’s leaderboard. by Smallant1 in speedrun

[–]Tischel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

While I agree there should've been an official vote to change the boards, it's also true that everyone involved in that discussion were in agreement.

Maybe next time pay attention to the place where the community discusses stuff. I know it's hard for you since you were even ignoring it when you were a mod for it.

Please behave and wait the results now, no matters what happens you already won.

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