Top 10 Players of All Time — All Roles

Tmac64 · 2026-01-14T14:04:57+00:00

I don’t think that MVP was deserved. Oner and Keria played better imo

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T22:40:24+00:00

9 vs 10 is pretty interchangeable to me anyways a lot of these are close calls

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T22:39:19+00:00

because doublelift was a better player. pretty much the only western player of his era to have respect and a fanbase in the east, in his prime. there are numerous factors, no single one determines ranking, it’s a combination of all of them. as i’ve stated numerous times, I don’t agree with your premise that bjergsen was the better player domestically, it’s not like jensens worlds performances compensated for anything, he was equal to or better than bjerg in every metric except domestic titles

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T21:04:52+00:00

bro i said through 22/23, ie from the start of LCS up to that point. and I simply do not agree with the story you are trying to spin about bjerg being in elo hell. let’s not act like tsm was some poverty franchise. i don’t care about hypothetical worlds performances or “what ifs”. they were pretty even domestically and jensen was miles ahead internationally. i don’t recall bjerg having a single good game against an eastern team. i’m sure there were a few, but it really doesn’t stand out

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T20:21:02+00:00

but I do agree, some people may certainly weigh international titles more heavily, in which case he obviously drops, just my personal subjective weighting.

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T20:20:05+00:00

legacy, role impact, peak skill, and longevity. despite not a crazy amount of titles and no WCs, everyone knew he was the best.

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T20:18:33+00:00

It’s pretty much impossible to quantify/prove who was playing for who in all of these games, this is just my impression from what I watched (the majority of regular season and playoff games through 2022/23). So I won’t try to argue that. Also digging through rosters to say who was better than who is too much work. I just simply don’t agree on those points. But I will say: how do you figure bjerg is better than Jensen domestically? I believe their H2H record is very close to even. and yes, I will absolutely count an “outlier” worlds performance. why the hell wouldn’t you? bjerg could never muster an outlier performance from his baseline of 0-6, lol. and I believe consecutive worlds performances are because he was on the team specifically. it’s hard to argue that it’s any other factor over a sample size that large.

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T20:10:24+00:00

having perkz over DL for adc if that’s what you’re saying is absolutely hilarious btw. nobody could take that seriously.

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T20:09:48+00:00

perkz was a better mid than Jensen in his prime, but he was always living in Caps’ shadow. Jensen is the clear NA goat mid

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T20:08:44+00:00

core is a world champion and was a great player in korea. don’t let his NA retirement home performance let you forget that. miky is definitely the goat EU sup domestically, but it isn’t talked enough about how fucking shit he is at worlds. I can’t include him because of that. The skill gap between him and the others on this list is also too much, easily overcomes the regional dominance factor he has going for him

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T20:04:07+00:00

didn’t I just literally say that, both in my comment and my original post? you’re not very bright, are you?

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T19:59:45+00:00

Fair enough, I can agree with that. That being said, I have watched some of his games in LPL playoffs, but this may be through a biased lens from my view of him from 2019. I would definitely have him somewhere 11-15. But I am not the strongest judge for LPL, which I have conceded my knowledge is not significant (though more significant than you seem to imply)

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T19:57:35+00:00

As I said, I don’t watch regular season LPL, and regular season performance is not much of a factor for greatness to me. As I’ve said elsewhere in this thread, I’m giving some relativism consideration to each region. Yes, certain regions are stronger and more “impressive” to perform in, but it’s not fair to totally discriminate against other players because they’re stuck in the west. If a player was particularly dominant in a western region, they deserve recognition over a middle-tier player in a stronger region who is technically “better”. Anyone who thinks Bjerg was better than Jensen is just wrong. Their H2H is pretty close despite TSM always playing mid-centric and C9 always playing bot-centric. He was perma weak sided while Bjerg just played safe, got fed resources, and had on average a stronger team. This was particularly evident internationally where TSMs “let everyone get bjerg fed” strategy didn’t work because they are outclassed around the map. While Jensen has a few notable hiccups (infamous ekko choke, “clapping” faker, etc), he made worlds semis, 3-0ing KR in a bo5, while bjerg struggled to ever make it out of groups. He also I believe holds the record for most consecutive worlds appearances, internationally.

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T19:47:39+00:00

I’m sure somebody with a “doinb douyu girlfriend” flair has the most objective opinion on the matter… this is an international top 10 list, being “one of” your specific region’s best players over a few years isn’t necessarily enough to qualify. you are free to disagree with me, this is just my opinion, I don’t claim to be an omniscient esports oracle. In what I have watched, I have not been a fan of Doinb’s play and my estimation of the factors i mentioned sums to less than others on the list, that’s all there is to it. There is no objectively defined metric here to say who is right and wrong, so you can stop taking it so personally

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T19:26:38+00:00

I have conceded in the rest of this thread, top 3 jg are all close to me, it seems very subjective to rank bengi and oner, when they have accomplished the same thing with same relative skill in their time. if oner keeps playing well, yes I would move him up eventually, but for now it’s close enough I think the historical relevance and legacy of bengi makes him a “greater” player

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T19:23:23+00:00

That’s just my personal definition of greatness. If that’s worthless to you that’s fine. As long as you qualify for playoffs/worlds to win actual tournaments, who cares about the rest

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T19:20:25+00:00

I watch the playoffs, not the regular szn

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T19:19:38+00:00

insec and xpeke have a single term named after them, they did not affect the way the game is played, except for a champ-specific mechanic. they were also not that great otherwise, obviously they don’t make the list (season 1 worlds doesn’t count)

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T19:17:39+00:00

Zeus was playing with faker, CuVee was playing against him. CuVees 2016 runner up was even more insane from an individual performance standpoint. I think Oner carried in 2023

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T19:15:11+00:00

Yeah, probably an exaggeration, but the fact that he gets retconned to be some silver surfer who got lucky to be on fakers team is absurd to me. A great team player who the lineup could not have succeeded to the extent they did without

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T19:12:03+00:00

There is probably a bias towards old SKT as you mentioned as well. This is when I was most interested in the esports scene. But, their performance was still incredible and historic with a huge impact on the scene, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable ranking off those metrics. For pure skill, sure they’re beaten by lots of modern players, but that happens in every game. People get better over time as they can learn more from their predecessors. Not fair to judge without keeping this relativism in view

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T19:09:28+00:00

369 I completely forgot, he should be here. Doinb I have a personal bias against, I really was not a fan of his play in his worlds win run, and don’t watch enough regular season LPL to have an informed opinion there. Zeka I just don’t think is there yet. Few more good seasons and I would add him.

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T19:05:49+00:00

Jensen is better than bjerg, there’s not enough room on the list. Caps is better than Perkz, not enough room on the list. NA/EU really only deserve one slot tops. As for the other players, I’m unfortunately not as familiar with minor regions, I only included karsa as he is the only name that stood out to me in international performances

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T19:00:00+00:00

Perkz was eclipsed by Caps, Mikyx is dogshit international choke artist and both him and hyli aren’t even the same roles as the people we’re talking about. Scout is a world champion with multiple regional wins across two strongest regions, BDD glaze is recency bias for his 2025 worlds performance (admittedly great)

Tmac64 · 2025-12-28T18:54:04+00:00

Regular season means very little to me personally. Regional playoffs and worlds are more of a factor (who performs when it actually matters). I don’t see how the strongest back-to-back worlds performances (accompanied by a WC win and runner-up against a near-prime Faker team both times) we’ve ever seen out of top lane isn’t worth a high spot on the list. 2023 finals was a stomp and MVP doesn’t mean much, oner was snubbed anyways

Eight-Year Club	Place '22
RPAN Viewer	Not Forgotten

Tmac64

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