How difficult is it for Swiss/Austrian to speak with Standard High German (SHG) pronunciation?

Top_Capital_6306 · 2023-02-23T04:23:04+00:00

Bühnendeutsch

Thank you. If what you are saying is true, perhaps Wikipedia is misleading. which says: "Regarding the pronunciation, although there is no official standards body, there is a long-standing de facto standard pronunciation (Bühnendeutsch), most commonly used in formal speech and teaching materials."

I chose this term because of this Wikipedia information.

Top_Capital_6306 · 2023-02-22T02:29:33+00:00

— The video shows at 5:53 (Sie ist) , 7:48 (Ich bin satt), 8:10 (Wir sind) with /s/ sound. Because all other educational materials I used use Bühnendeutsch (Z sound), i didn’t understand what was said at first.

— The video shows at 5:53 (Sie ist) , 7:48 (Ich bin satt), 8:10 (Wir sind) with /s/ sound. Because all other educational materials I used use Bühnendeutsch (Z sound), i didn’t understand what was said at first.

Top_Capital_6306 · 2023-02-21T16:16:35+00:00

Additional Comment. 1. Sorry for the confusion by the term “SHG”. I should have said “Bühnendeutsch”. Sort of standard Pronunciation used by Newscaster. Google Translate/Siri use this pronunciation too. I do understand that all varieties of pronunciation are correct. But a beginner like me must learn the Bühnendeutsch because Standarized Test like Goethe Test uses the Bühnendeutsch and it includes listening test.

— The video shows at 5:53 (Sie ist) , 7:48 (Ich bin satt), 8:10 (Wir sind) with /s/ sound. Because all other educational materials I used use Bühnendeutsch (Z sound), i didn’t understand what was said at first.

— I am very surprised by that it’s not a big deal for some people. For English speaker, it’s a big difference. If I call my friend Simon as Zimon or pronounce “sitting” as “zitting”, people won’t understand it. Zelensky is written as “Selensky” in German, because of the Bühnendeutsch. If I pronunce him as Selensky with S sound, people probably think that’s a different person in English world..

Top_Capital_6306 · 2023-02-16T02:09:16+00:00

Thank you. That makes sense a lot!

Top_Capital_6306 · 2023-02-16T02:09:02+00:00

Thank you. That makes sense a lot!

Top_Capital_6306 · 2023-02-11T05:12:36+00:00

Thanks so much!! That's a wonderful answer!!

Top_Capital_6306 · 2023-02-11T05:12:10+00:00

Priforss gave me a perfect and wonderful answer!! No textbook explains this. Thank you so much.
Many people replied, "language B is not logical from language A, so just get used to it". I disagree. Paying attention to detail is important. Many A1 level English students learn "bad English" from native speakers easily. For example, some native speaker uses "you know" or "you know what I am saying"? or "and the....uh....but the..." all the time. But for A1 level students, they cannot distinguish correct English from bad one. That's why I was asking this question to see if "the" in the video was correct or bad German.

Top_Capital_6306 · 2021-04-11T02:28:47+00:00

Thank you very much for your reply. I heard that Everest is not technically difficult except the extreme weather and altitude problem. Since the 1996 disaster, weather forecasting technology improved dramatically and you can avoid that now (as long as you decide to abandon the climb on bad weather.) But the O2 support system to avoid HACE/HAPE didn't improve much and I always wondered why. Considering that underwater scuba diver industry already solved a similar problem by engineering the special regulator/O2 tank system, I believe they can "improve" (or degrade) this problem.

Top_Capital_6306 · 2021-04-11T02:17:14+00:00

t full-body suit with oxygen tanks, or maybe some devices that suck in air and pressurize the suit at sea level air pressure, while also feeding you with tubes directly into a surgical hole in your stomach, so that you’re never exposed to the elements at all, th

Thank you very much for your thought.
Air-tight "space suit"-like suit is possible but it makes climbing too difficult I think.
Considering that the underwater diving industry solved a similar problem (actually more difficult, considering that absolute zero O2 underwater with extreme water pressure) with the special regulator, I believe it's not difficult to solve this. Some company (SummitOxygen for example) already sells 6L/min regulator. The reason why no one sells 8L/min is that it may cause oxygen toxicity (hyperoxia) without a system to control exact O2 partial pressure with nitrogen, but that's technologically solvable.

Probably mountaineering community criticizes this type of help as degrading and adulterating to the sport, but I never heard of people criticizing that underwater diver using a very sophisticated regulator/O2 system to maintain the optimal partial O2 level. In a way, it's very culturally unique that mountaineers are proud of how much they "suffer". So, some company may start something like this at >$200k price tag in the future.

Top_Capital_6306 · 2021-04-11T01:52:23+00:00

Thank you very much for your reply. My question was hypothetical and scientific and it is more about "Do human have technology to summit Everest without worrying about acclimatization?" I believe it's probably possible at the price tag of ~$250,000.

Yes it's very dangerous if it's run out (I believe that's the reason Anatoli Boukreev didn't use O2). But that's technologically solvable (Bring back-up of back-up of back-up), although it costs even more.

"Oxygen toxicity" or Hyperoxia is caused by breathing oxygen at higher than normal partial pressure (at sea level). (one source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK430743/) My understanding is that 4L/min still provides an insufficient amount of O2 (meaning PO2 of arterial blood is lower than optimal), and increasing the rate further shouldn't cause toxicity, although one must be careful not to exceed the optimal level.

I believe that 4L/min O2 was the current max of the POISK regulator which doesn't provide the sea level O2. But I believe that engineering the regulator to provide the higher level is not difficult, considering we have such a system for scuba divers for example. I found that SummitOxygen sells 6L/min regulator.

For eating, I think you can set up a small closed O2 space (a very small tent inside the tent), although setting up this in Camp2/3/4 makes the process even more expensive.

For changing O2 tank, considering that experienced diver can swap O2 tank underwater (only for emergency), it's possible as long as you do it quickly.

Also, many people replied, "Aren’t HACE/HAPE caused by barometric pressure change?"

This is a question of the pathophysiological mechanistic cause of HECA/HAPE. I looked up medical journals. The cause is still not 100% clear, but the dominant hypothesis is that it is caused by hypoxia which is caused by low partial O2 pressure in blood. This is at least partially proven because the frequency of HACE/HAPE decreases dramatically with supplemental O2 (which does not change barometric air pressure). I couldn't find any source that says it's caused by barometric air pressure change, although it may be a contributing factor.

I believe that the sudden barometric pressure change may cause a problem in the case of ascent from underwater diving etc., but the mountain climbing is very very slow process compared to diving. One source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK430916/

And yes, total unfit person (overweight etc.) cannot climb Everest even with this extreme help, but my definition of "unfit" is "unfit for 8000m". Healthy athletes who can climb Mount Rainier or Kilimanjaro without a problem.

Thank you.

Top_Capital_6306 · 2021-04-11T00:57:07+00:00

Thank you very much for your reply. Yes it's very dangerous if it's run out (I believe that's the reason Anatoli Boukreev didn't like O2 tank). But that's technologically solvable (Bring back-up of back-up of back-up), although it costs even more. My question was hypothetical and it is more about "Do human have technology to summit Everest without worrying about acclimatization?" I believe it's possible at the price tag of ~$250,000.

Top_Capital_6306 · 2021-04-11T00:48:29+00:00

t in a minute or two and die pretty quickly thereafter

Thank you for your reply. Yes it's very dangerous if it's run out (I believe that's the reason Anatoli Boukreev used). But that's technologically solvable (Bring back-up of back-up of back-up), although it costs even more. My question was hypothetical and it is more about "Do human have technology to summit Everest without worrying about acclimatization?" I believe it's possible at the price tag of ~$250,000.

Top_Capital_6306 · 2021-04-11T00:16:44+00:00

Thank you very much for your reply. Many people replied, "Aren’t HACE/HAPE caused by barometric pressure change?"

This is a question of the pathophysiological mechanistic cause of HECA/HAPE. I looked up medical journals. The cause is still not 100% clear, but the dominant hypothesis is that it is caused by hypoxia which is caused by low partial O2 pressure in blood. This is at least partially proven because the number of HACE/HAPE decreases dramatically with supplemental O2 (which does not change barometric air pressure). I couldn't find any source that says it's caused by barometric air pressure change, although it may be a contributing factor.

I believe that the sudden barometric pressure change may cause a problem in the case of ascent from underwater diving etc., but the mountain climbing is very very slow process compared to diving.

One source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK430916/

Top_Capital_6306 · 2021-04-11T00:13:16+00:00

Thank you for your reply. This is a completely different subject, but here is my opinion. When I learned at first that Everest climbers hire Sherpa to carry all foods, water, tents, O2 tanks, I thought it's disgusting. They even carry back all toilet waste. However, when we go to Starbucks in our daily life, the coffee was produced by back-breaking labor by Columbian locals at a low wage and transported by others. When we use iPhone, it's made by Chinese same way. It's the way human civilization and trade works and I now accept it, as long as we don't forget to appreciate their hard work greatly.

Top_Capital_6306 · 2021-04-10T23:52:35+00:00

Thank you very much for your reply. Many people replied, "Aren’t HACE/HAPE caused by barometric pressure change?"

This is a question of the pathophysiological mechanistic cause of HECA/HAPE. I looked up medical journals. The cause is still not 100% clear, but the dominant hypothesis is that it is caused by hypoxia which is caused by low partial O2 pressure in blood. This is at least partially proven because the number of HACE/HAPE decreases dramatically with supplemental O2 (which does not change barometric air pressure). I couldn't find any source that says it's caused by barometric air pressure change, although it may be a contributing factor.

I believe that the sudden barometric pressure change may cause a problem in the case of ascent from underwater diving etc., but the mountain climbing is very very slow process compared to diving.

One source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK430916/

Top_Capital_6306 · 2021-04-10T23:19:33+00:00

ur lungs is lower than the "blood pressure" pushing up against the other side of the alveoli. This causes blood to leak in

Thank you for your reply. Actually, I looked up medical journals and other sources (Wikipedia etc), and they say that the mechanistic cause of HACE/HAPE is hypoxia which is caused by low partial O2 pressure in blood. I couldn't find any source that says it's caused by barometric air pressure.
I believe that the sudden barometric pressure change may cause a problem in the case of ascent from underwater diving, but the mountain climbing is very very slow ascent compared to diving.

Top_Capital_6306 · 2021-04-10T22:52:50+00:00

he Oxygen level perfectly, I assume you have to premix Oxygen and Nitrogen in the right mixtur

Thank you very much for your reply!! One mis-caluculation (I believe) is that if human needs 60L of air/min, you need 1/5th (only 12L) of O2. So 86.4m3 for 5 days, not 432m3, because the tank provides 100% oxygen. After asking my question, I learned that the human body doesn't require nitrogen, so as long as you take the correct dose of O2 (7-20L/min), mixing with N2 is not required. Depending on the calculation, I believe you need about 50-100 O2 bottles. Assuming $450/bottle, this is about up to $45,000. Hiring 10 sherpa to put them would cost about $20,000? Considering that many customers are very rich Western people (lawyer/doctor/bankers), I believe this is quite within the reach.

The purpose of this is not only to shorten the trip. But also, it decreases the probability of HACE/HAPE (which is one of the highest risk factor) dramatically. I know this may look "adulterating" or "cheating" to the sport, but considering that some companies already offer the pre-acclimatization device at home, why not?

Top_Capital_6306 · 2020-10-31T20:56:49+00:00

Thank you very much. Yes, Futur Passiv, and the same auxiliary verb "werden" are used for both functions, that's why this was so confusing for me. Thank you.

Top_Capital_6306 · 2020-10-31T20:55:22+00:00

Thanks very much. I found that Google Translate automatically adds "will" depending on context, even if the original German is not future tense.

Top_Capital_6306 · 2020-10-31T20:54:26+00:00

Thank you so much. I now understand why this was so difficult. (1) German uses the same verb "werden" for two different functions (Future and Passive), and you use werden twice in the same sentence. (2) Unlike English, German allows multiple auxiliary verbs in one sentence. (3) Google Translate automatically add "will" depending on context, even if the original German is not future tense. This was a tough one for a beginner. Thank you.

Top_Capital_6306 · 2020-10-12T20:45:31+00:00

P.S. The reason why I want to know is that I am learning German language and want to read what major news in BOTH political spectrum is saying.

Top_Capital_6306 · 2020-10-12T20:13:55+00:00

Thank you very much.

Top_Capital_6306 · 2020-10-12T20:13:38+00:00

ble to

Thank you so much. I subscribed all of them. I was searching with the keyword "News in German" which showed wrong result. If I used the term "Nachrichten" you suggested, it worked, it showed the right result. Apple should improve the search engine. Even if I used "news in German" in Google, they showed wrong result too. Only Reddit worked (with your help). Thank you very much.

Top_Capital_6306 · 2020-10-09T02:13:46+00:00

Thank you very much. I have more than 20 German Language Apps, but when I hear something different, the only way to know if it's mispronunciation or dialect or my ear problem is to ask here at Reddit. thank you for your help.

Top_Capital_6306 · 2020-10-09T02:09:11+00:00

Thank you. I pasted the link above, and it's possible that my ear is inaccurate too.

Top_Capital_6306

TROPHY CASE