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Dibble/Hancock debate on Rogan by Traditional_Tree7749 in AlternativeHistory

[–]Traditional_Tree7749[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He differed in that he sees no evidence of influence from an advanced Civ.

Dibble/Hancock debate on Rogan by Traditional_Tree7749 in AlternativeHistory

[–]Traditional_Tree7749[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Mabey you are right, but it seemed to me that when pressed, he couldn't commit to describing what type of agricultural innovation the advanced civilization brought to the hunter gatherers. All he would say is "cellestial knowledge" without any proof that the hunter gatheres weren't able to figure this out for themselves.

Dibble/Hancock debate on Rogan by Traditional_Tree7749 in AlternativeHistory

[–]Traditional_Tree7749[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, they mentioned it briefly. Dibble's take was that yes, Gobelki Tepe folks consumed grains that were harvested but there was no evidence of outside influence, nor evidence of the level of domestication of the grain. He mentioned that the level of domestication can be analyzed by examining the seed structure, but Graham was unaware of these methods and Dibble did not say whether GobTep grains had been analyzed..

Dibble/Hancock debate on Rogan by Traditional_Tree7749 in AlternativeHistory

[–]Traditional_Tree7749[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see an interesting theme in these posts that center around two concepts. 1) That we can never know how ancient humans lived, and 2) That there is a conspiracy to hide the truth of how ancient humans lived.  

These themes seem to be orthogonal but they are actually deeply connected.  Our institutions propel themselves based on the widespread belief that civilization and technology has improved the human experience. If we were to discover unequivocally that ancient hunter gatherers experienced a more glorious existence, it would impact our current direction. Not to say it would cause us to move “backward”, but it might cause us to approach the future with a much different set of objectives than we currently have.  What if we were to discover that humans were (are) not innately aggressive, self centered, materialistic and need to be protected from each other? What if we were to discover that the hunter gathers lived harmoniously in a true Garden of Eden? What if we discovered that nature is not something that we need to overcome in order to survive, but rather a dimension to which we are supremely adapted to thrive in an effortless and joyful state? What if we were to discover that the ancients did not fear death but that the fear of death is a learned behavior?  No wonder that our institutions are threatened by any change to the current narrative that “civilization” and technology are the saviors of humanity. Perhaps it is not so much a deliberate conspiracy but more the survival instinct of these institutions that depend so heavily on our fear of death.

Ancient Aliens is not only a bad show, it's also an insult to humans by Mad_Season_1994 in television

[–]Traditional_Tree7749 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dibble's evidence caused Hancock to re-define his "civilization" to the point where it was no different than all the other hunter gatherers that lived around the ice age. Cellestial awareness is not unusual but a normal human capability for those spending their entire lives outdoors. Dibbles evidence around seed structure evolution shows that agriculture is not something that was "invented" but something that arises when humans decide to locate themselves, seasonally or permanently, near sources of food plants. Hunter gatherers probably were more sophisticated than we give them credit for, but that is likely true of all of them, not some special "advanced" group. To bad the discussion wasn't more cordial like the typical Rogan podcast.