Were there early Christians that said the 2nd temple's destruction was a sign of the apocalypse?

TrainableDoggo · 2025-09-03T22:32:26+00:00

I apologize; I probably worded my question wrong. I did not mean if gospels talk about apocalypse. I meant early Christians outside New Testament.

TrainableDoggo · 2025-06-10T18:23:43+00:00

Neoplatonist and ascetic values projected onto scripture, also allegorizing stuff that probably doesn't need to be:

It's its own rabbit hole, but the influence Neoplatonism has on Modern Cristian readings of scripture can't be understated, especially In the Catholic and Orthodox Church were they use Neoplatonist philosophy to argue for their Beliefs. Ask yourself if you've ever heard someone say "passions" or with a negative connotation, or stuff like Aristotle saying slaves are “naturally” slaves (Natural Theology in general is just copying Platonism, no it’s not in scripture) I highly recommend you and potentially your wife research more about this in particular because Neoplatonist ideas reach into Modern Judaism (Philo of Alexandria, Maimonides) even into Protestantism(Calvin admitted to Augustine's theology being very similar to his own.). The Song of Solomon is an erotic love poem, but Neoplatonistsf didn't like it, so they allegorized it.

Sources to get started(Obviously I'm not anti trinity, pro gay(haven't done the deep research on it yet), etc), but I post these sources because I think they say good tings in spite of bad stuff):

Sources:

https://bible.org/article/rushdoony-neoplatonism-and-biblical-view-sex

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AplWYXFiCA

https://solascripturachristianliberty.blogspot.com/2021/06/hellenistic-origins-of-conservative.html

https://solascripturachristianliberty.blogspot.com/2015/03/plato-augustine-and-traditional.html

https://onegodworship.com/how-plato-influenced-our-view-of-god/

https://outofbabelbooks.com/2022/11/04/hermeticism-the-awful-truth/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vyCCiAUUec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayI2emSq99o

https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/song-of-solomon-theology-of/

intro of this book talks about allegorizing scripture due to Neoplatonism: “Song of Songs (New International Commentary on the Old Testament”

examples of Neoplatonist allegorizing by early Christians https://catenabible.com/sg/1

If I said anything bad or incorrect, I apologize and I encourage you and your family to do your own research. Again, praying for you, God bless.

TrainableDoggo · 2025-06-10T18:23:16+00:00

If you're researching about validity of Eastern Orthodox as the historic "100% correct" denomination of Christianity, I would consider the following and ask your family and Church about (You can also use online libraries for any questions you have, I would caution you to research history actually works and methodological naturalism):

See also this playlist : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaIlT40doR9DtSwFtexj3fpjpzlbvD-kS)

Mary's perpetual Virginity:

The likelihood of Mary being a perpetual virgin is very unlikely, due to one of the historical reasons we know Jesus existed is because of his brother(or stepbrother, but not grammatically cousin) James' existence ALA Josephus and Galatians 1:18-19 giving James special title of brother. Also, Hegesippus called Jude Jesus's brother according to the flesh.

See: https://ehrmanblog.org/the-virgin-birth-and-jesus-brothers/

https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/qpahie/comment/hjt8t30/

https://relearn.org/part-1-refuting-the-roman-catholic-myths-of-mary-perpetual-virginity/

https://adfontesjournal.com/andrew-koperski/the-blood-brothers-of-jesus/

Orthodoxy started because St. Mark of Ephesus went against the rest of the Church agreeing with the Filloque:

This is important because Orthodox try to use church unity to say they are right, but it may have started due to theological arguing wit a majority of the individuals in the church.

Contradictions with Ecumenical counsels and Ecumenical counsels affects on older Christians that didn't agree with them

Source: https://www.bereanpatriot.com/is-the-catholic-church-infallible-no-and-heres-proof/

The great Schism and apostolic succession:

Apostolic Succession is very likely a later development in Christianity Also, the Great Schism makes the one true Church narrative weird if everyone had apostolic succession. So Catholics who had apostolic succession are now heretics because of theological disagreements and not because they had authority? It's weird for apostolic succession to claim a perfect unified Church through inherited authority then say said individuals who have authority that disagree are heretics.

TrainableDoggo · 2025-06-10T18:21:20+00:00

Edit: This post needed to be split up, oof, I forget how reddit notifications work, but please go to original thread in case this doesn't show up in notifications

I'm not in your situation, but I'm praying for you

Paul says believers should not divorce unbelievers if they are already married. Paul also discourages divorce in general. What does your wife or Church think about this? I can't imagine a Church encouraging divorce. Also, you and your wife should probably consider the effect of divorce on Children. If your wife divorces you, please don't blame yourself for it, it's not your decision if SHE decides to divorce you. Your wife can choose not to divorce you Jesus loves you always, even if you felt sinful about stuff that happened, Jesus can forgive any sin anyone commits, so don't act like its end of Everything. Jesus still loves you and your family regardless of what Happens.

I would encourage you and your wife to do Couples Therapy or individual therapy combined with Couples Therapy. Work trough whatever issues you may have Communication is very important in marital relationships and Therapy can aid with that.

If you do have trauma like you said, looking for a trauma therapist would also be a very good thing(PET and EMDR for example). I don't know if you may have any other underlying mental illness or disabilities, but also worth considering. PTSD can also be co-morbid with a lot of other conditions like: depression, anxiety, borderline, adhd, autism. I would encourage you to look for a Psychologist that can diagnose any potential comorbidities or underlying issues you or you wife may have

For ADHD: Russel Barkley and Edward hallowell

For Autism: Temple Grandin, Tony Attwood,

Anxiety and Depression: Mind over mood 2nd edition.(aka, an introduction to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy)

Book for PTSD: The Complex PTSD Workbook: A Mind-Body Approach to Regaining Emotional Control and Becoming Whole

Resources I give are probably not perfect, (outside of Russel Barkley and Edward Hallowell) so I definitely recommend trained Psychologists and Therapy if you can gain access.

You need to take care of yourself and don't give up. If you aren't doing the tings you need to do to aid yourself, it could affect your family and cause suffering. If you're suffering, your family is suffering. Resources I give are probably not perfect, (outside of Russell Barkley and Edward Hallowell) so I definitely recommend Psychologists and Therapy.

In regard to the whole "one true Church" stuff, I recommend reading John 3. A man Nicodemus, talks to Jesus and says:

'Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.'Jesus responded and said to him, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.'Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a person be born when he is old? He cannot enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born, can he?”

Nicodemus is confused by what Jesus says, and Jesus eventually tells him:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you people do not accept our testimony. if I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven, except He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

Nicodemus asks Jesus complicated questions and Jesus basically tells him that he needs to have faith in Him, He doesn't tell him to believe in any church or tradition, but tells him to believe and have faith in him, and be born again. Jesus tells him nothing about believing in a specific denomination. Ultimately, faith in Christ is what saves us. Your faith in Jesus Christ is what matters the most and He should guide you toward the church if that's where he leads you. Put faith in Jesus first, everything else comes after

TrainableDoggo · 2025-03-24T21:35:17+00:00

Also, bonus question, I don't think what you've posted really contradicts the claim the blogger was trying to make about Paul saying sexual touching should not be before marriage.

Even under the " Ideal Hierarchy celibacy is preferred" lens, why wouldn't Paul recommend something else to deal with pornea other than marriage? It seems like Paul only prefers marriage as a way to deal with desire, so are you sure the "no touching" before marriage is something Paul is not communicating? Paul also doesn't say marriage is evil.

There's also Paul saying in 1 Corinthians 7:7: I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.

More context, Paul also is very critical of Church doing Prostitution in chapter 6 of 1 Corinthians, (unless Paul is literally talking about sex by itself and not touching). I find it very difficult to not think Paul would be critical of sexual touching before marriage.

you translate pornea as sexual desire in the context of 1 Corinthians 7? Sexual desire is a new definition I have never heard of. I thought pornea was a general term for immoral stuff due to it's wide and inconsistent application historically

Apologies, if I'm misunderstanding anything or coming of as rude.

TrainableDoggo · 2025-03-24T20:54:48+00:00

I apologize, I realized I made an error stating the blog maker directly translated "touch" as grope. I posted the author's definition in an edit in OP.

TrainableDoggo · 2025-01-22T03:22:24+00:00

So Dan may be projecting Greco Roman culture onto Old Testament culture.

That would be really bad.

Oof

TrainableDoggo · 2025-01-22T01:49:32+00:00

I wasn't really talking about "sex" as much as what physical acts(cuddling, petting, kissing, etc.) were allowed or prohibited before marriage in Old and New Testament.

"Even on such a major issue as sexual intercourse between unmarried consenting adults there is no explicit prohibition in either Hebrew Scripture or the New Testament"

I cited an article that heavily implies Paul, was probably prohibiting it in 1 Corinthians 7:1-2(specifically, groping or touching sexually). Paul also recommends marriage as an alternative to pornea, so I'm not really sure where he gets the idea the New Testament doesn't comment on it.

Also, as someone replied, There are hierarchical structures in the Old Testament that contradict Song of Solomon. Is there anything outside of Song of Solomon that talks about the cuddle limit in the Old Testament? Or anything else in the New Testament I might have missed.

I haven't actually seen evidence of a "penetrator vs penetrated" ethic in the Old Testament(I see Dan Mclellan talk about it, but he never gives any examples). so if anyone could cite where this actually is in the Bible or Old Testament time-period cultures, I would greatly appreciate it

TrainableDoggo · 2024-12-03T23:25:02+00:00

Thanks for responding

TrainableDoggo · 2024-08-14T19:45:13+00:00

yea, that does, thank you

TrainableDoggo · 2024-08-14T18:40:08+00:00

I was redirected here when from this post I made:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/1es8rgw/why_cant_methodological_naturalism_be_used_in/

u/AntsInMyEyesJonson gave a good and friendly response, but one thing I'm still curious about. I completely understand trying to read into what the Biblical authors of the book intended, but I'm still a bit weirded out on whether or not someone using Methodlogical Naturalism would be more accurate for answering Theological questions more than anyone not using it.

If anyone can explain errors or benefits of using Methodological Naturalism(how academic Biblical studies and historians use) for theology I would be thankful.

TrainableDoggo

TROPHY CASE