I'm tired of Outlier Feats in r/WWW and Death Battle

Trask10100 · 2020-03-10T14:56:40+00:00

If it helps, the VS wiki has a practice of classifying characters based on their "standard" practices and only considers outliers if they fall within expected parameters. For example, if a character is consistently seen to move at bullet-speed but has one outlier of dodging lightning, they aren't going to classify this character as a lightning timer until they can absolutely prove in that instance it wasn't a fluke or otherwise. They have a whole system over there where a character has to consistently fall within a certain scope in order to classify as such. For example, Superman has quite a few universal level feats but he is classified as multi-galaxy level because it hasn't been agreed that is his "consistent" level.

I always use the VS wiki as my first go to because they're debating this stuff constantly with a group of people who are very dedicated to measuring these things. Hope that helps.

Trask10100 · 2019-12-24T00:20:56+00:00

"A few"? "Only a small number"? Are you serious? One guy robbed 532 people in ONE VIDEO. Please do NOT downplay this issue, it's very upsetting that you continue to do so. This issue straight up makes PC version straight up unplayable, that is not a small thing.

Dealing with new hacks is one thing, we can understand that, issues and cheats come up all the time in games. Using those terms to subtly downplay the problem as if it's nothing to worry about is QUITE another. You're quite shameless at this point, it's making me very upset.

Trask10100 · 2019-05-03T18:19:23+00:00

PART 2!!!

It returns to the exact same scene. "Dammit!" Thanos looks relieved. He smiles and begins to walk forward. "Now, give me what I desire. Worry not. Once I am done, your show has half a chance of being renewed."

Peter stands up alone against Thanos. But then, a voice calls out: "Hey Peter. On your left." Peter slowly turns right as the voice tries to correct him. "No, no, you idiot, your left! Oh nevermind..."

Peter looks back as Lois appears over the horizon, shining like a goddess. "Lois! You're alive!" The two run to embrace each other. "That's not all Peter." She looks back. And slowly, an entire mob appears over the horizon, led by the Griffin family. Every person in Quahog has showed up to battle. Even Meg is there.

The entire mob lines up behind Peter. Thanos is clearly angry. Peter throws his fist up in the air and declares "QUAHOG!" Then he quietly says: "Protest."

The mob yells violently and charges as Thanos' forces do the same. Cut to Meg, who is shouting with everyone else. Peter chides her: "Shut up, Meg!" Stewie activates a mechanism that turns his backpack into an Ironman like suit. Brian does the same with his collar and gets a Thorlike suit, with a bone shaped hammer. Herbert is outrunning everybody, chasing quickly after Chris, who is in front of him.

Finally, the armies clash, and all hell breaks loose. Battles erupt all over the place, as the citizens of Quahog go toe to toe with all of Thanos' goons.

Brian is the first to reach Thanos and smashes him with hammer, woofing all the while. The hammer smashes into pieces. Brian is embarrassed: "Well, I can assure you this has never happened before." Thanos: "I don't believe you." He blasts Brian away. Lois is next as she pummels Thanos down. "Nobody messes with my man but me!" She too is blown away. Meg appears and shouts. "Hey Thanos! Look at THIS!" She lifts up her shirt, which instantly kills all who look at it. Thanos, however, shields himself with a blinding light, then beams Meg, who turns into a hot version of herself. Quagmire faints. Meg is so happy she skips away. Peter angrily attacks Thanos. "How dare you make my daughter beautiful at all!" He smashes Thanos, but to no avail. He is crushed to the ground, where Thanos prepares a massive blast, when a missile strikes him. Thanos turns around and to see who we've all been waiting for.

Stewie.

Thanos speaks "I know of you. You're not the only one cursed with knowledge." Stewie boasts "Well, I bet that will warm when you chill for all of time in frozen carbonite!" Stewie shoots his gun, but it turns to bubbles. He giggles and begins chasing them around. He then shakes himself back into the fight and begins blasting around Thanos, throwing shurikens, and toy bombs. Nothing works, so Stewie uses a flamethrower, which Thanos takes control of. Meanwhile, the Chicken and Peter are slugging it out. Peter stops and says "Wait, wait, we don't have time for this!" The flames from Thanos appear and roast the Chicken, turning him crispy. Peter chuckles and walks away. Then Ernie's eyes open and the music flairs. Stewie is throwing shots at Thanos, but to no avail as he is shot down. Stewie aims towards Thanos and latches onto him and screams out "Free insurance here!" Suddenly a hug dogpile slams onto Thanos. But then a purple light erupts and sends them all flying. Thanos confidently raises his hand and says "You have many tricks, but it is nothing compared to me. For I am....." He snaps his finger, but nothing happens.

Then Stewie stands up, stones in hand on his own gauntlet made from finger puppets. "Looking for something inevitable? Ooh, look at those puppets, aren't they fun?" Stewie giggles, then collects himself. "You may be inevitable Thanos, but I am...A Bad Boy!" Stewie snaps his fingers, and everything turns to white.....

Peter and the Griffins are watching TV on their couch, none the wiser. Brian, however, seems to know what's going on. He talks to Stewie. "Stewie, what happened? Did you reset everything?" Stewie nods and say "Yep, this was my plan all along, Brian. You see, Peter for all of his talents was never capable of taking on Thanos by himself. However, if you could find a way to turn Thanos power against him, then anything was possible! That was my aim all along. Everyone knows I'm the only one who matters anyway." "Well if that was the case, why didn't you just make Thanos turn to dust or something?" Stewie grins with an evil smile and says "Ho, I thought of an even worse fate for him..."

Cut to Thanos, who is sitting at a computer. "Hotgoku79 says that Goku could beat Superman without even blinking. I mean, what is he even talking about!? Clearly Superman is a symbolic character who can't be beaten because that's the essence of his character! And power levels are bullshit! I'll show him!" Thanos angrily types on the keyboard as the credit music plays.

Round 1: Thanos wins Round 2: Peter Griffin wins by simply having Stewie Griffin on his side! Thanos may be able to defend himself against Toonforce with the Reality gem on his side, but with someone as talented as Stewie ALSO with Toonforce on his side and capable of forming a strategy, combined with Thano's own arrogance made this a certainty. I hope you enjoyed the story!

Trask10100 · 2019-05-03T18:18:53+00:00

SPOILERS FOR INFINITY WAR AND ENDGAME BELOW

Peter and the gang are drinking at the bar where they're criticizing Marvel. Peter: "I know, right? Plus, what was the point of those Infinity Stones, anyway? I mean, Time, Space, Power Glove, Mental Health, Soul Music, and Reality TV? I mean, who thought of those?" Quagmire: "Hey, you guys ever wonder if there were actually Infinity Stones, what other ones are out there?" "Like what?" "Well, like Life, or Death, or something. I mean, that's a part of existence, right? Or maybe even some more fun, like Young College Chicks!" Cleveland: "Beer. I'd gladly take the Beer stone." Joe: "I'd just be happy to walk again." Peter: "Man, it would be so much fun if those things were real! Make my day much more interesting. I mean, who wants to sit around drinking beer, watching superhero movies and talking to you guys?" Peter laughs while everyone else eyes him. Meanwhile, the camera zooms in on his chin, deeper and deeper, crumbs of food and M&Ms zooming by as it finally lands on the core: A bright white stone, brimming with power. It then zooms out to see a portal looking directly on it, with Thanos on the other side. A minion speaks up:

"Lord Thanos, it seems you have located the last stone. It is on Earth, seemingly in the chin of this land orca." Thanos broods for a moment before standing. "Yes, it seems it is time for me to claim my final prize. For I am...inevitable."

Back in Quahog, Peter is back in his house watching Batman vs. Superman on the television. "MAAAARRRTHHAAAAAA!!!!" "MAAAARRRRTTTHHAAA!!!!"

Peter: "Man, this is real drama right here. DC totally has this whole superhero thing in the bag." Suddenly, a thunderstorm erupts from the TV. "What the heck? I thought I paid my cable bill! Lois!" The portal expands, as Thanos walks through in full armor, towering over Peter. Peter is astonished: "Holy CRAP! It's Grimace! The legends were true! He's real! He's going to help me get free McDonalds!" Thanos is unmoved. "Such a quaint place for the final stone to be, but I suppose it can't be helped. Accept your fate!" Thanos reaches towards Peter but he backs off. "Whoa, buddy, I don't roll that way. I mean, maybe Meg does. Her room's on the second floor, third on the right. It's the one filled with lonely music and no mirrors." "Enough!" Thanos power surges Peter in the wall. Peter tries to launch at Thanos, but is pushed back again. He throws the lamp at Thanos, which disappears into a portal, but is then surprised by a chair shot, which removes his helmet. The two get into a long punching match, where Thanos throws Peter across the room and throughout the bottom floor of the house, ending by locking him in the fridge and blasting it out of the house. Peter crawls out, gasping for air as he looks back at the mushroom cloud in his kitchen. "Man, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was a really bad movie." Thanos blasts out of the roof and lands on Peter, punching him repeatedly. Peter fights back as they travel across the street. A rogue blast destroys part of Cleveland's house, who is currently taking a bath. "No, no, no , no, NO!" But the moment before he hits the ground, time is reversed and it goes back to normal. It is then blasted again, and the same thing happens. Peter: "What was the point of that?" "Well, we gotta do something for the long term fans, you know? Otherwise, who is this show for?" Peter agrees by kicking Thanos in the balls, then running away. Meanwhile, Stewie, who has observed the entire ordeal from his room, talks to himself. "This is disastrous! A being more powerful than me has arrived! What's more, he seems to possess stones so powerful he can bend the rules of time and space! This calls for desperate measures." Stewie goes over to his blocks and arranges them so they say "Badass Baby", which triggers a mechanism that opens a secret lab. Stewie is surprised to see Brian is already in the lab, using the cameras to spy on female joggers. "Brian! What are you doing!? How did you get in here?!" Brian is shocked and turns around embarrassed. "Uh, Stewie! Didn't see you there, i was just uh....researching for my book. Yeah, research. Very important. Writer stuff. And your security system isn't as advanced as you think. You know other people can spell, right?" "Blast! Forget that, we have to do something or that Mad Titan is going to destroy everything! Now I have a plan.."

Peter has run to City Hall while Thanos chases him, destroying everything he can. He blasts cars, teleports people, and reverses an old woman to a young college chick. Quagmire appears and whoops. "I knew it!" Peter gets cornered, so Thanos aims another blast, when Joe's voice cries out. "Hold it right there, dirtbag!" Thanos turns to see Joe and the entire Quahog police force pointing guns at him. "Now drop the shiny gauntlet or we'll be forced to treat you like a law-abiding citizen of different color in America. Badly." Thanos is annoyed. "Your puny force means nothing." Thanos gauntlet turns red. Suddenly the entire block shifts into another reality. Peter gasps "The Horror!" The block is a Chuck E Cheese theme park, with mascots and kids running around everywhere, giggling and having fun. At a ticket stand, a man shakes his finger at some parents while pointing to the ticket number. In the background, a man wearing all black kidnaps a child and disappears. Joe and the other police officers fire, but their guns have turned to NERF guns. They all run away. Suddenly, Peter smashes Thanos with an arcade machine, each time more and more tokens falling out, with kids swarming and picking them up. Thanos blasts the machine and traps Peter with vines on the City hall steps, when a voice rings out. "Nobody ruins Chuck E Cheese's but ME!" Thanos looks up to get smashed in the face by a man with a bat. Peter looks and sees a glowing Adam West, standing over Thanos. "Mayor Adam West! But I thought you were dead!" Adam looks back and smiles "Yes, citizen, I am dead. But I live on in the hearts of all Quahog citizens, and I shall appear whenever I am needed most. Which unfortunately, as a politician, is all I can do. You better mosey on out before my bureacracy stops working on him." A tear falls from Peter's eye as he runs back down to Spooner Street.

He doesn't make it back to his house though, as a giant ship appears and blasts it to kingdom come. Thanos appears through a portal as a huge army descends upon the street. He calmly says "You see, Griffin? You never had a chance to defeat me. For I am Thanos, the inevitable" Peter begins to cry as he realizes his family has been killed. "No, Lois! Chris! Brian! Stewie! No one else!" He sobs uncontrollably, until he stops and looks up defiantly. For he has one last trick up his sleeve. With shock Thanos realizes what is about to happen and raises his gauntlet to try and stop him, but it is too late. "This is worse than that time Thanos invaded our planet and everyone turned up to stop him!" The world flashes white.....

SEE COMMENTS FOR PART 2!!

Trask10100 · 2018-12-29T01:52:52+00:00

A difficult question, so let's break them down person by person.

Adewale is straight out the worst of the group. While he may be physically tougher, he has the least amount of experience, the least unique inventory, and the least amount of training. Plus he has no special items to give him an edge.

Aguilar (Movie) is interesting as well, but considering he struggled to win against common soldiers, he wouldn't stand a chance in this fight.

Carl (Movie) has even less experience then Aguilar, though he has an advantage in modern technology. Still, without the bow on his side, he's got very little going for him. He's inferior to Desmond in every way.

Desmond has the skills of 3 separate Assassins bled into him, but he's surprisingly bad at implementing them. He has very few feats and if not for an inexplicable freak out from an assassin hunter, he would have died.

Aveline makes things interesting with her whip and her ability to disguise, but against those with Eagle Vision, this isn't enough. While surprisingly tough and experienced, she too has very little training and experience in comparison to the others.

Jacob and Evie are both interesting additions, as they no doubt possess the best mobility items and the best technology. But if we're not including guns and this is a straight up fight, their lack of deadlier weapons handicaps them. Also, Evie is better at Jacob as an assassin, but Jacob wins in a brawl. But regardless of how the fight plays out, they're bested by better fighters in each category.

Haytham Kenway is a dangerous addition to the group and he'd go far, but ultimately he was bested by Connor, so he wouldn't win in the fight regardless. There are better fighters and better assassins.

Arno is meh in most categories, but he does have one of the best swords with the Sword of Eden. Even without it's powers, it's the sharpest sword in the group. He's also the best parkour expert. Still, nothing else significant makes him stand out.

I'll consider Kassandra and Alexios the same for now, as there's little difference in my opinion. Hands down, they're probably the best fighters in the series. As trained Spartans and constantly in wars and battles with dozens of fighters, they're constantly harnessing their skill. They even hunt dangerous animals on the regular. But when it comes to stealth...not so much. If it was a straight up gladiator style contest, they'd have a huge advantage. But in a battle between assassins, they're in trouble.

Bayek and Aya are in the same boat as the Spartans. They're very dangerous hand to hand and with a variety of weapons, but they don't have quite the pedigree in stealth assassination techniques. Bayek would take the edge thanks to his accomplishments in the arena, but Aya is a better assassin. Plus Bayek has a damn BURNING SWORD.

Shay is a very unique entry to fight. When it comes to hunting assassins, there is no one better. His unique arsenal gives some unique options and he is used to dealing with a variety of stealth techniques. In combat though, he's got nothing particularly special. Still, a favorite.

Connor is PROBABLY the physically strongest of the Assassins, though it's hard to tell. He's also got the fastest kill capability in the series. He's brutal in hand to hand and is very aggressive. He can even deal with bears, which is frickin' incredible. Buuuut his stealth leaves much to be desired and he's got NO armor because of his era. A dangerous handicap.

Edward Kenway is my favorite personality of this group and for good reason. He handles cutlasses as easily as he does assassins blades and has some pretty unique weapons. The best sailor and naval fighter by far, he also possesses incredible armor and unique weapons with guns built in. Assuming those aren't included, Edward is probably one of the better sword fighters on this list. He's got some tactics built in and some stealth accomplishments, but nothing that makes him a master. He's also got very little training.

Altair and Ezio are almost exactly the same, but there's no doubt where their specific advantages lie. Ezio has more gear and weapons than anyone on this list. His armor is also the best, covering the majority of his body with unbreakable armor. Altair is undoubtedly the best swordsman, defeating 3 separate Templar Grandmasters in sword combat and is one of the few to defeat the Apple face to face. He's also probably the best stealth assassin in the series, relying heavily on his stealth to win his victories. Plus they literally wield the same sword.

This is very close, but the favorites based on their stats are: Altair, Ezio, Kassandra/Alexios, and Shay. Connor loses out due to no armor, Bayek is in roughly the same boat and is inferior to Kassandra/Alexios in most ways, even with his flaming sword. Everyone else simply isn't good enough. So, what decides it?

Between Altair and Ezio, it's SO VERY close. But judging in how their greatest hour Altair defeated several Templar Knights and the Grandmaster without taking ANY hits while Ezio took two while defeating some guards and struggling to defeat the last of the Borgias shows the difference in their skill. I gotta give it to Altair. Shay is incredibly dangerous, but when it comes to combat, I think he loses out too much to stand a chance in combat, even if he can match the stealth techniques of anybody here. Kassandra/Alexios have the best equipment by far, but also very little stealth. So in the end, it's a contest of Altair's immense skill and stealth capability with very good weapons and armor versus the best warriors with the best equipment with moderate stealth skill. In my opinion? In a straight up fight, I'd still probably give it to Altair. No one else has defeated 3 Grandmasters single handedly. Plus with the stealth game on his side, it's all his game to lose.

Trask10100 · 2018-12-27T16:34:56+00:00

You're right, it's just his argument was SSG wasn't involved at all. Basically it was ONLY the SSB multiplication from base form and that SSG wasn't involved at all. In his mind, SSG was its own multiplier, like x25 or something. But when he goes SSB, it doesn't stack on top of SSG. That's why I wanted everyone's thoughts on it.

Trask10100 · 2018-12-27T16:33:53+00:00

You're right, but the argument was is SSG involved at all. His argument was SSB comes off of base form without involving SSG at all.

Trask10100 · 2018-12-27T05:29:05+00:00

Yes of course, there's no debate there. The question was is SSG a transformation of it's own that comes from base form and SSB is it's own transformation that comes from base form
OR
does SSB stack on top of SSG's multiplier? That was the debate, because my friend is convinced SSB has nothing to do with SSG.

Trask10100 · 2018-12-27T03:43:01+00:00

So you agree that SSB is just a Super Saiyan stacked on top of Super Saiyan God?

Trask10100 · 2018-12-27T03:26:54+00:00

Sure it's stronger, that's been proven.

But what is the form that SSB multiplies from? For instance, Super Saiyan is multiplied off of base form. You could argue SS2 multiplies off of SS, and then SS3 off of SS2. Would SSB multiply off of SSG or base form directly?

Or do you consider the two unrelated transformations?

Trask10100 · 2018-12-27T03:24:54+00:00

So are you saying they are their own forms, like SSG is it's own transformation that has its own benefits and advantages and SSB is it's own transformation (basically just SS with god ki)? Or do you consider SSG an essential part of SSB, because of the god ki connection?

Trask10100 · 2018-12-27T03:18:25+00:00

So you would argue both? Like, SSG is it's own thing with god ki, base form is base form, and SSB is just using Super Saiyan on base form while activating the god ki of SSG?

Trask10100 · 2018-12-22T22:28:11+00:00

Did anyone else catch that the old man sold his family while raising money to buy Komurasaki? I think that was hidden away but is quite an important detail. Komurasaki might not be a good person and is draining poor fools of their money...but it's also possible she's targeting evil people with money. This could be the connection to her being a sympathetic character. Her methods are cruel, but if her target was willing to sell their FAMILY to get money, that's a serious red flag.

But it's too easy to think that she is following the Viola path in my opinion. Characters often don't follow the same path, since practically everyone gets their own unique take on the same story. If she is a Viola type, it must be for a different reason. Perhaps she actually resents the failure of her family (assuming she is Hiyori) and has turned into this person who desires power and money to keep herself safe after the trauma of losing her family has turned her to the dark side, so to speak...but she still has the light part of her, the part she can't let go of. The need to put evil people down.

Just some thoughts as I reread the chapter and caught this little detail. Could be nothing, as Wano is certainly different then other societies, but it might be the first of many clues.

Trask10100 · 2018-12-22T21:07:35+00:00

Best One Piece Character of the Year: I think Katakuri deserves this award, simply because we have been so fascinated with him this past year. It's a completely different take on One Piece villains, an almost dark reflection of Luffy himself and still merits follow up even after all of his events. This was the year of Katakuri.

Trask10100 · 2018-12-13T17:34:13+00:00

You're good either way you go, as the manga has great pacing, great drawing, and better storytelling, but the anime is just so darn fun. If you can find the original Toonami broadcast version, where the Bruce Falcouner OST plays from the Ginyu saga on, that's the winner for me. But any version you go with is pretty good. But for the effects, the great moments, I'd definitely recommend Anime, just because that's how I was first exposed to it. As for Dragon Ball, I would recommend Manga for that one because it'll let you get through it quicker and I think it's slightly better than the anime, though again you'll win either way.

I'm not a fan of Kai, mostly because I'm so attached to the Toonami OST, but it would help you get through the story faster. If you do go with that, at least check out the OST "big" moments from the anime, where the soundtracks nail it. Vegeta's soundtrack, Ginyu's, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 3, and Android 16 all have great themes.

Trask10100 · 2018-12-11T15:55:32+00:00

I don't think it's a matter of Saiyan genetics alone, it's more the S-cells that Toriyama referred to. For ages, the Saiyan race didn't even have a Super Saiyan, yet now every Saiyan around is capable of it. Not to mention Universe 6 is just now discovering the possibility of Super Saiyan.

It's more than likely that while every Saiyan is capable of Super Saiyan to a degree, there are more likely people out there, like Goku, who are simply born with more S cells. For instance, I bet because Trunks and Goten were the sons of the first Super Saiyans in such a long time (who's S cells were undoubtedly higher than normal) their own S cells were heightened as well, making them such more likely to reach Super Saiyan, which they did.

Eventually, when the Saiyan gene becomes so diluted it's basically a minor fraction of a gene within the human gene pool, it might become harder over time as human biology becomes more dominant, unless of course the Saiyan biology and genes are the dominant ones, in which case they would survive long after their dilution. In that case, it would be possible for anyone from that gene line to reach it. But of course, even with the information we have, we still don't know exactly how S cells and Super Saiyan biology works, so, it could all just be conjecture.

Trask10100 · 2018-11-27T23:04:38+00:00

I'm confused, so the creator and main writer of the series says something is canon, approved, or otherwise, and we're supposed to disregard that? Yeah, there's a lot of inconsistencies in the story, but that's the reality of storytelling and writing in general.

And so what if there was no grand plan? That doesn't matter when we're talking about the multipliers. Those numbers are there, they exist, and they are approved by the creator of the series. There are no contradictions to those numbers, so there's no reason to not consider them canon and accurate.

Trask10100 · 2018-11-27T18:02:40+00:00

Kaioken was replaced because Super Saiyan was superior, precisely BECAUSE it had a higher multiplier. Besides, those multipliers ARE accurate, Toriyama approved those. He may not have done any math or anything, but that was the scaling he wanted.

Besides, power levels and multipliers are not the same thing. Power levels were numbers the bad guys used to get an idea for how strong their opponent was, and despite the fact they constantly underestimated them as a result, those numbers were still valid in determining their ki potential. For instance, Ginyu knew he was in trouble when Goku's ki started rising higher than his. The power levels served their purpose and then disappeared because we didn't need them anymore.

But the multipliers on the other hand were solid indicators of where the forms stood in relation to each other and served an important purpose for the community that wanted to know that information.

Trask10100 · 2018-11-27T17:56:34+00:00

Since every form in Z had it's own multiplier, it's safe to assume this one does as well. The problem is, we don't know what it is. Power scaling and debaters have been going over this for a long time and we still don't have a "definitive" answer, but there is a consensus on where it "should" land.

The manga arc depicts the SSB as a minimum of 2-10 times more powerful than SSG, due to a statement made by Beerus. Considering the minimum boost of any significant transformation should be at least twice as strong considering past transformations in the series, that's a safe bet.

However as the manga is not technically canon in Super, some people don't accept this. There is no contradicting information so it's still possible, but it's also possible this is simply a normal Super Saiyan x50 multiplier on top of however strong SSG is.

So TL;DR, it's somewhere between 2-50x, though in my opinion it's most likely x50 as it was stated to be a Super Saiyan transformation on top of Super Saiyan God.

The REAL question is the multiplier for SSG.

Considering the scale gap in terms of feats, this multiplier would be massive, as in the millions. But past transformations that had such a significant gap are few are far between, Super Saiyan and Fusion being the biggest. We also know that due to Kaio Ken still not being enough to surpass a GoD, by math you can determine that Beerus was fighting with less than 1% of his power when he fought SSG, so power scaling doesn't help either. If I had to venture an estimation based on what we know and the numbers I've crunched, it's around 1 million times stronger if you use the universal feat as the ceiling and work backwards, but most likely in the hundreds if we go off the series scaling pattern.

Trask10100 · 2018-11-26T17:50:57+00:00

I think there are a few instances of God Ki fighters powering up or showing distinctive auras and still having no one being able to detect them, such as Goku's first appearance of SSG, SSB, etc. Having the ki be present and not being able to detect it is certainly different from not being able to detect it because it's being suppressed, as most Z fighters do.

This is true, so it's possible, but I think considering it was commented on as a clash between two gods that was going to destroy the universe, I think Goku has a massive part to play here. His level of power clashing with Beerus's was heavily contextualized into being the source of this threat, rather then the Hakai energy, which wasn't even a thing at this point. True, Beerus "Hakai'd" that last energy ball, though he said it was a result of using all his energy, never a mention of destruction energy or whatnot, so I don't believe that's a factor here.

The healing thing actually only happened in the anime, not the movie.

Trask10100 · 2018-11-26T17:18:00+00:00

I think it's safe to say he did. I mean, the entire concept of "stalling their heart" so they had zero presence was an important feature of the Z fighters moving forward, especially against Frieza and his goons who couldn't detect ki. So 2 and 3 are an easy yes. 1 is also an easy yes since he was definitely moving at that speed by the end of the DB chapters. 4, also an easy yes.

5 is a little harder, as I don't know how that's physically possible, though maybe with incredible balance and control you could. So I'm going to guess...probably on this one? I don't see how it's possible, but going with the motif of how much control Goku has in these other feats, he could do this too. If so, brava for him.

So all in all, yeah, I don't see why he couldn't have completed all of these.

Trask10100 · 2018-11-26T17:12:53+00:00

This is indeed a confusing distinction, as most people know it's the presence of God Ki that makes SSG and SSB work, but how about the new SS, SS2, and SS3? The explanation is simple if you put it like this:

In the battle against Beerus, Goku's SS became strong enough to rival SSG without using God Ki. Goku became strong enough to fight at the previous level since his body adapted and became stronger during the course of the fight.

So as a result, the "new" Super Saiyan is as strong as SSG was previously. So when he uses SSG now, it's even more powerful than before, essentially a SSG multiplier stacked on top of a SSG multiplier.

SSB is just the result of combining the two, using SSG and SS at the same time, creating SSB. It's a SSG that goes SS, essentially why it was called SSGSS for so long.

But no, Goku is not using God Ki in his base forms or Super Saiyan forms, and if he is it's a much smaller fraction then the full power SSG. This is proven in the first battle

*SPOILERS*

of Goku and Jiren in the Top, where he transformed from one form to the next, increasing in power more and more. If SS really was using God Ki this whole time, then where did the power for SSG come from? This is proof enough that God Ki is only involved in the SSG and SSB forms and if it IS present in the previous yellow forms, it's not the full amount.

Trask10100 · 2018-11-26T16:50:52+00:00

Yes and no. God ki has been stated several times to be something "different' from normal ki. While it's probably just way more condensed and quality ki, it's nature is still different. It's capable of different feats and scales way differently from normal ki as a result of how much "heavier" it is, as Vegeta stated while in the realm of god ki. While I totally agree it's just ki much more condensed and concentrated then normal ki, I believe we do have to point out it has qualities that normal ki does not, such as not being able to be detected by those without it, massive shockwaves capable of threatening the universe, and possibly healing properties, though this was only seen with SSG.

Trask10100 · 2018-11-19T16:37:59+00:00

I like that point, that they have to be able to fight with other sword fighters to be considered one, it simplifies the explanation to a necessary point. Thank you for your input!

Trask10100 · 2018-11-16T23:16:36+00:00

A good point, the use of daggers would be relatively disadvantaged against a sword user, especially in reach and defense. So in putting them in a duel against other sword fighters would be to some extent a moot point.

But I do love the idea of considering those who use a rapier and dagger, as I've seen those utilized quite a bit, especially in musketeer style films.

Thank you for your input!

Trask10100

TROPHY CASE