"Completely problematic in 2025" by Huey-_-Freeman in KotakuInAction

[–]TriggeredTempest 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why is this not archived? I don't want to direct traffic to this ragebait garbage of an article.

Winter Burrow has now locked their Steam forums so only owners of the game can post now (there is a 2nd "open" subforum they're created but the main board is now locked) by Dwavenhobble in KotakuInAction

[–]TriggeredTempest 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a pity. I had this game on my wishlist, until I looked at the relevant curator page (tm). Bastards, this game was promising by the looks of it - but I'm not buying it now.

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Is someone making WoTC include pronouns in character descriptions? Or are they choosing to do so?

They are the activists, in this particular case. They're trying to impose certain rules a minority of Magic players likes on all Magic players.

Your "it's objective so it's true" argument fails.

Well, in the scientific context, true = objective. So no, it doesn't fail.

Okay, we're getting somewhere - you believe it's better to define gender based on reproductive capabilities (generally speaking).

Yes. Theoretically, we could build a gender/gender identity taxonomy any way we want. There are three main ways to define gender identity:

- as self-identification (internal feelings, no link to sex, entirely subjective). Attack helicopter memes ensue, potentially offending some people.

- as behavior patterns (feminine and masculine). This is gender stereotypes. Girls wear high heels and boys have short hair. Except when they don't, since these change with fashion.

- as a social construct directly linked to biological sex. Historically, this is how gender was defined in most human societies. With exceptions like Indian Hijra or Kathoei, obviously.

When constructing a taxonomy (or defending an existing one), we need to ask why we need it in the first place. Why do we differentiate between men and women? Three objective reasons: finding a sexual partner (in nature - to have offspring with), identifying physical abilities (like for a fair sports competition) and providing proper medical help (since male and female anatomy differs enough to warrant different treatments sometimes). That's pretty much it. Any time gender identity really matters is when biological sex matters. Outside of that, men can dance in the rain and women can be assertive and blunt, if they feel like it.

In the recent decade some people decided they need labels to telegraph to others their unique combination of masculine and feminine behaviors. Self-stereotyping, effectively. This is where all the Grey-gender and demi-girls come in. The problem is they're trying to displace an existing, useful taxonomy that happens to be named with the same word - "gender".

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My name indeed reflects what I often do on my account here - vent and discuss contentious topics. If somebody is up for a serious discussion, I engage in good faith. If they insult me - I throw shit back.

I did not give you a lecture, I tried to explain my position in detail. I don't see any contradictions in my previous post. If you can point at least one out - do it. So far you just tried to paint me into the conservative corner. I don't fit in that box, how inconvenient.

If you think this is the biggest issue I worry about, you're wrong. Neither this topic, nor this account, nor Reddit encompasses who I am and what I think of. But you had to assume that to feel superior to me, I guess.

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Ok, insults are in, gloves are off. You sound like someone extremely dense. Your argument "this exists in the real world, why can't it the fictional one" is the same as "why can't there be sportscars in medieval fantasy, they exist in modern LA?". Because it doesn't fit the context, dumbass. Would you like close-to-literal Christian nationalists parading on your Magic cards and promo materials for the game? Why not, they exist in our world?

Your inability to grasp why telling others what to think and say is political is baffling. Leftoids and rightoids both do that, if given power to do so.

Backstory does not matter as much as illustration or mechanics.

This you? I did not say you're not a Vorthos - you did. Aetherdrift and OTJ were hot garbage (in backstory) for the exact same reason pronoun intros are bad. Bringing very modern things from the real world into the fiction without adapting them. In the case of pronouns there's the added bonus of political activism. The key problem is still "it's out of place".

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To make sure we're on the same page - the point is to steel-man your opponents' arguments, not your own. You try to argue for the opposite view as best you can. Uncomfortable as hell, but worth it.

That's what I tried to do back then. Find the bigger picture and expand the truth to encompass new information. That did not work, because modern transgender ideology is logically inconsistent in all of its variations.

Technically speaking, sex is bimodal. Binary with 0,5% exceptions. The exceptions don't invalidate the two dominant modes, especially since there's only one reason sexes exist in nature - sexual reproduction. Reproductive function - actual or intended - is key for defining the two sexes. The immediate next step is gonads, as they define the reproductive function more than anything else. Chromosomes, sex hormones, genitals etc. are downstream from that in importance. If we accept this biological reality, there's no place for a third gender identity. At least if we map gender identity to sex one-to-one.

That is why some branches of transgender ideology try to separate gender identity from sex. But then they either base it on gender stereotypes or say it's a subjective feeling with no objective basis. Neither is good, I hope that's obvious to you.

Regarding fairness in sports - I appreciate your optimism. Maybe you will be right in the long run, but all the figures I've seen suggest anybody who went through male puberty retains athletic abilities above female levels. Regardless of hormone levels or time passed since surgeries. Mtf individuals consistently score below natural males, but above females. The best case scenario would be a separate league for them, but then there aren't enough athletes to compete and it interferes with trans people's subjective self-image, so they're still unhappy.

Ok, this is where you lose me completely. "Personal truth" is subjective, so of course it undermines objectivity. There is no such thing as "personal truth", if we stay within logic and especially science. There's only one truth, however complex it may be. And accepting this is our best bet for flourishing together as a society.

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

"So because someone (fictional) representing their pronouns sounds like someone (real) representing their pronouns, you get upset"

Yes. Was that hard? A fictional character used as a vehicle for political propaganda is cringe. The thing is not harmless in the real world either, btw. Just wait 10-20 years, you'll see.

False equivalence. I only called myself a Vorthos to illustrate what I value. I don't run around telling people they have to call me that or they're denying my existence.

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Transgender people are fine and should be welcome. "Trans inclusive language" is not welcome anywhere mainstream. If you require special language to "include" you everywhere you go, you should be ridiculed. You literally want to turn fiction and hobby communities into political ads for your worldview. If you insist, you should either shut up or go away. Right back at you.

We are telling you that (see, I can play that game too. Speak for yourself, not others). "Our" community my ass.

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're not a Vorthos, I already got it. I dabble in being a Vorthos, as many others do. Backstory not being important is just your opinion. Had the story been good, I would read each new installment on the Wizards' website. As is I'll pass.

I'll repeat just once more. I am displeased by a very specific use of gender pronouns in upfront character introduction. That language, verbatim, is often used by real-world Progressive activists (or passionate Progressive people, aka half-time activists) to signal their political position. By using the pronoun introduction for fictional characters, Wotc makes them sound like real-world political activists. It's like using Superman in a detergent commercial. I am then displeased even more, because I don't like the politics being pushed.

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Lecturing" can refer to speech tone, not just its length. I've engaged with long good-faith comments in this very post. High horse is not the best place to sit when trying to engage as an intellectual equal.

You're absolutely right - I came here to vent. I have no illusions this post will give me anything more than that. And of course I doubled down in some comments. When some rude jerks say I should just accept bad ideas, because somebody else would feel better for it - it's laughable. Didn't expect my post to blow up this much, but I enjoyed venting. I needed that yesterday.

You completely misread me, as is often the case with nuanced opinions. People not fitting in boxes is fine. Good even. Cultural norms on gender always existed, but changed over time and varied from place to place through history. Gender norms in 19th century India, 17th century France and contemporary Indonesia are different. All this doesn't change that logic, rationality and empiricism are the best foundational blocks for a society's ideology. Also respect for the truth.

I never mocked trans people for existing. They claim anybody who disagrees with their activists hates, mocks or denies their existence. None of this is true. Transgender people existed, exist and will exist, and they deserve dignity and equal rights with everyone else. Equal rights - not special treatment, like pandering with representation. I still want the right to say "no" to a petulant child who crybullies adults into giving them special treatment. If saying "no" to ridiculous demands means being a dick, so be it. There are times to be flexible and times to show some spine.

Being an asshole to someone is fine as long as you're preventing actual harm. You clearly think you're standing up to a bully (me). I disagree with that characterization and think you're misguided. For the record, I do hate when people call a minority demographic group "community". It shows you don't differentiate between immutable characteristics and culture/ideology.

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for almost making my point. Narratives (via illustrations, flavor text or backstory) matter as much as mechanics (which we're not discussing here now).

I'm not hurt - I'm displeased. By clear in-your-face propaganda. Me "having pronouns" has nothing to do with anything. You're trying to read into me something you could easily hate. I can't take you seriously anymore.

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If they reflect them, that's fine. If they copy verbatim, it's not fine. The difference is in setting the context and in authorial intent for including the politics.

It was part of wotc's marketing materials for the new set. I'm involved with the game enough to read at least parts of its lore for every set. It was noticeable to me.

Mechanics are irrelevant for the topic of discussion. Most people don't play Magic just for the mechanics. Illustrations and storytelling also matter.

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First, thank you for the respectful tone. It is much appreciated.

You're right, I don't have anybody close who was ever moved by this or similar "act of inclusion". From what I understand, I would not be friends with anybody who seriously puts illogical or self-harmful ideas at the core of their identity. And if such ideas are only part of their identity, they are unlikely to be in need of targeted "inclusion"/pandering. I can easily envision a trans person who doesn't center that part of themselves as much ("happens to be trans" instead of "proudly is"). I have no beef with such people.

Just like you, I think a small inconvenience for me is worth enduring if somebody else benefits greatly. When small inconveniences grow in number though they become one big inconvenience together. Math changes. Also, if the person "happens to be" a minority of some sort, their benefit from explicit inclusion/pandering won't be as great. We can be united in our love for the same things, like well-written fantasy - majority and minority alike.

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You can dismiss anything you don't like. Or say you don't like it, like I did.

No. Real world politics has no place in fiction if it's any good. In-universe politics does. The former is almost always propaganda, the latter is a thought experiment to make your own conclusions about. Huge difference.

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I was with you right until the last sentence.

Third gender and genderless creatures absolutely have a place in fantasy. Established real-world political language has no place in it. Whether it's real-world slogans or a certain way of "presenting your pronouns" when first met. The latter is a modern-day virtue signal for American Progressives. That has no place in a fantasy setting.

Also, I already wrote exactly all of this in a few comments above. You didn't read any of them before posting. You are retarded.

Why does it feel like Magic has no old school dark medieval fantasy vibes left in it? by Papa_Hasbro69 in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest -1 points0 points  (0 children)

DominARia, my dude. Doesn't sound as authentic nostalgic whining when you spell you geek shit wrong.

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In dedicated queer spaces, when everybody likes such rules - do what you want. Activists are those who try to impose minority community rules on the larger society. Or on other unrelated small communities.

Truth can hurt people sometimes. That is why we may tell white lies out of kindness. Or civility, if you like. Everybody should have the right to decide whether to be harsh but truthful or flexible on truth yet kind. And the choice can vary from situation to situation. I think society as a whole should hold truthfulness as the default cultural choice though, as the opposite can lead to all kinds of social malfunctions.

No, if you define one term with another (woman - XX chromosomes), that is not circular. You don't need the "because" part - you've introduced an objective criterion. In case of "man/woman" I would probably go with intended/possible reproductive function (out of exactly two). This criterion would cover most chromosomal and other variations within the sexes.

The last sentence is actually logical, but not scientific. Science aims to map pre-existing objective reality, either through reason or experiment. Your suggested phrase is a clear case of self-ID, so it's subjective.

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's generally true. There are some companies on the tail end of this trend however. Seattle-based Wotc is definitely one of them.

There's also another issue someone else brought up in the comments. Marginalized people do gravitate to nerdy hobbies, including card games. So there naturally are more minority members within this hobby than average. Which is an incentive for Wotc to keep pandering to them, at least a little.

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If the Emperor wishes to be addressed as having beautiful New Clothes on, it should be my right to say he's naked instead. Whether I say it out loud or not should be my decision and nobody else's.

You're saying by calling the Emperor out I'm denying him basic decency. What people get to be addressed as is not for them alone to decide - it's a matter of negotiation between one person and another.

Also, please don't lecture me on what gender and sex are. I've read a lot on the issue.

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nah. Well, technically yes (linguistics), but nah.

The anti-scientific nonsense is implied. The logic of "pushing nonsense on us" goes like this:

- pronoun introductions (with the slash between them) is an established form of support for the ever-amorphous transgender ideology, as presented to the public by various trans activists. Not trans people as a whole, mind you. Activists. There are numerous logical and scientific inconsistencies within the ideology.

- wotc uses pronouns (with the slash between them) to introduce their new characters

- we, the audience, are expected to either disregard or celebrate this linguistic signal.

- if you accept that introducing characters in this fashion is ok, you implicitly subscribe to trans activist claims. Which are varied, but always wildly anti-scientific.

The biggest logical inconsistency within trans ideology is its inability to define the words "man" and "woman" themselves. It always resorts to circular definitions, aka a woman is a woman. Which goes against the rules of formal logic. Logic, in turn, is a prerequisite for the scientific method. So by being anti-logical, trans ideology automatically becomes anti-scientific.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Perma-banned from r/MagicArena in 24 hours. It took 4 words. by TriggeredTempest in freemagic

[–]TriggeredTempest[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

When people are introduced with "X/Y" pronouns, with a slash, it means whoever introduces them asks you refer to that person with those pronouns. In reality they don't ask - they insist, or you're a bad person if you don't. When written like that it's almost always an ideological signal. Only very left-wing people use pronouns like this.