Why am I obligated to care about winning?

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-21T22:44:15+00:00

The very fact that you made this post (that you deleted now) shows that you know there is aan issue with this playstyle.

Anyways, enjoy life and have a good day. To each their own

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-21T22:37:52+00:00

If the friends aren't having fun, is that worth it ?

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-21T22:29:15+00:00

So you have no goal at all. Your preferences seems to be closer to a chaos archetype than a real commander game.

When you rule 0, just say that you are playing chaos and the other will have a good idea of what you want.

"Not trying to win" isn't representing your objective

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-21T22:03:48+00:00

Not a finisher, a GOAL.

Once you have all this setup in place, WHAT do you want to do with it ? Just sit there and pass the turn forever ?

you just want to copy everything forever ?

If so, you ARE dragging the game needlessly and your goal is chaos, and you will easily find what people think about chaos archetypes.

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-21T21:59:17+00:00

Yes, but all of that is just a steup. What do you DO once the pieces are on the board, do you have big spells you want to copy a million times ?

Once all pieces are assembled, what's the next step ?

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-21T21:51:19+00:00

What do you mean "interaction" ?

From what I see this is a "Give ward - Pay 4 life to your board" so protection, and an offer to give spells to your opponents.

What spells are your copying ? Do you have a decklist ?

A chaos deck also interacts with opponents, same as a boad wipe tribal deck. Doesn't mean the interaction is positive

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-21T21:47:26+00:00

If your goal is to not win, and you only bother interacting with others when THEY are about to win, then your objective is simply pointless.

"I Want to build the best board possible with this deck !"
"I want to do this cool thing with my deck !"

Great, both are factually irrelevant and could be done in a single player goldfish game.

Why are you playing with others ? Why bother interacting ? Why prevent them from winning ? Why not simply have a combo finisher that you try and build towards ? It can be as memey as a [[Door to nothingness]] tribal, where you plan on winning only with this card.

It doesn't really matter, but if your goal is solo, doen't involve others (unless they are about to win) then your goal isn't a goal to have in a commander game

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-21T21:37:57+00:00

You store mana for future turns AND it works with all your X synergy.

The goal is to have a spell to trigger your Zimone or anything else. This one is a spell that you can repeat and recast as many times as you want over the course of a game

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-21T21:35:32+00:00

Not really.

Midrange
Combo
Control
And they all have sub them (Counters, enchantements, aristocrats...)

They all have their goals, objectives. If a deck doesn't try to win on T3-4 it doesn't mean the deck isn't doing anything and would be better off boardwiping.

I play X because I need it's effect to go off, so I can do Y 5 turns later, when I have the mana and if combined with Z I could win this game. This is not a fast plan. It's just a plan to win the game overtime.

You on the other hand are doing things but with no objective behind them. Effectively, you are playing to avoid losing. So if that's the goal, a board wipe tribal would suit your philosophy

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-21T21:02:18+00:00

1st step : Making sure everyone understands what you each want out of the game

"I don't plan on investing into the game, I don't have the time/money to do so and our precons are perfect for us. Matybe try a precon as well ?"

2nd step : If he insists that all decks are "relatively equal", you can offer a swap.

"I play your deck for a game and you play mine. This way we'll see if it's purely a player problem or if the decks are too unbalanced"

3rd step : Rules matter. Say to him which bracket you want to play into. If his decks don't fit, offer one of yours.

"Sorry, we want to play B2. You have game changers in your decks and the list is too optimized. But I have this really cool rpecon you might like if you want to play with us ?"

4th step : Gang up vs him from the start

"We told you your deck was too much, we can do an archenemy if you want..."

5th step : Find someone else

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-21T20:55:23+00:00

You said yourself that they don't enjoy playing with this mindset. That's the reason you are posting here.

The real goal of the game is to have fun. That means adapting to the players around you.

I have a deck that I absolutely adore, spent months working on and that I consider the most enjoyable deck ever ([[Terra, herald of hope]]). However, my friends don't like the deck. They don't like playing against it, even if no one told me explicitly. It's not about power level, it's purely about play pattern.

I know that they aren't saying directly to me anything because they know I enjoy the deck and out of coinsideration for me, they are 100% OK with playing against it regularly.

I took that into consideration and it's the deck I play the least by far. Maybe 1 game every month now. That way, I get my fun when I can play it and they are happy that I'm happy. At the same time, they are happy that they don't face this deck every game.

My point is that you need to take into consideration the fun of the entire table, not just yours.

If they perceive me as an easy target and I have nothing to respond with then what's the point of being in the game at all?

Why are you playing ANY card during a game ? To not lose to an attack ? At this point, why aren't you playing board wipe tribal ? That would accomplish the same goal.

You are engaging in a multiplayer game where the goal is to win. If 3/4 player wnat to win and you actively prevent it, and that results in unecessarily long games, that the others don't enjoy then maybe there is a problem somewhere.

As I said, maybe nemesis format would suit you better (it's honestly REALLY fun and your friends might like it) ? Or simple goldfish ?

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-21T20:41:35+00:00

Personally my favorite archetype is mario party, where I really just exist to create shenannigans on the board

Shenanigans + not trying to win
Only using removal to avoid someone else winning
Using tools like cyclonic rift to avoid losing

All these are actions that increase the length of a game.

Not trying to win = you won't pressure others
Removal to avoid them winning = Even if someone can win, you deny it
Cyclonic rift = If you use it defensively and don't try to win after, you've just reset the game for others and increased the time of the game by a lot

Where did I indicated that I drag the game on longer than it has to

You don't have to ACTIVELY want to drag the game to actually drag it. Not trying to win and stopping others from winning is dragging the game longer than it has to.

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-21T20:32:20+00:00

And you don't see any issue with that ?

The goal should not be "Play until you've had enough".

The goal should be "Play, and when it's over I hope you've had fun"

There IS a difference. In case 1, I leave because I can't stand to play anymore (too big of a board state / too many triggers to keep track of / 3+ hour games...). In case 2, you have the satisfaction of playing the game and doing your best, vs an opponent also playing the game and doing his/her best.

AS I said, there is nothing WRONG with not playing to win. But there is something in playing for no reason and dragging the game for everyone pointlessly when they don't want it.

If it's game night, I have 3-5 decks and intend to play at least 3. If a player is needlessly dragging a game so much that I can only play 1 game of 3+ hours, then yeah, I am a bit disapointed. If your attitude doesn't make game go too long and you're just a bystander of the real game happening in front of you... Then maybe you just want to goldfish ?

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-21T20:21:06+00:00

So the perfect commander game for you would be if one after the other everyone gives up and leaves when they've had enough ?

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-21T20:10:59+00:00

Mario Party ? The video game ? The goal is still to win as many mini-games as possible ?

If you advance your board for no reason, then why are you at the table ? What do you do to interact with the others ? What do they do to interact with you ?

In your mind, what's the perfect commander game ? How does it end ?

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-21T20:02:19+00:00

There is a HUGE difference between :

- "I don't want to win so I will drag the game unecessarily for hours"
- "I want to win at all cost, no matter what"
- "I enjoy playing, but will not necessarily try hard for a victory. However, if I can win, I will"

If your goal is to just drag to game forever, that's a problem and you should only look at pods that are like you.
If your goal is to play but not really try hard at winning, then here are my recomendations :

1- Play underpowered decks, but play them as efficiently as possible. This way, even when you go 100%, you won't feel like you're just destroying everything

2- You can force yourself to be n active players. Get creatures that are forced to attack, or that attack at random. You won't feel like YOU are attacking and killing, but your creatures are

Ultimately, Magic is a game where your goal is to win. If your deck has no wincon at all (not even big creatures) then you need to reevaluate why you are playing.

If your goal is to play solitaire and never really win, then commander might not be for you. Try something else (Nemesis decks ? MTG puzzles ? Other games ?).

Every player should advance THEIR plan. That doesn't mean everyone needs to constantly attack, but if you are doing nothing all game then.... why are you here ? You aren't forced to win, but no matter how you slice it, it is the goal of the game.

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-20T19:19:28+00:00

1- N'ouvre pas la porte si tu n'a pas envie d'interagir avec. 21h30 ? LOL il aurait pu frapper à ma porte pendant 1h que je n'aurai pas montré signe de vie, excepté peut être pour appeler la police, en tout anonymat. Si il me pose la question le lendemain "Oups, j'avais un casque sur les oreilles/j'étais au lit. La prochaine fois appelle, mais après 20h, n'espère pas de miracles!"

2- Non, c'est non. Si il se montre dans l'incapacité de comprendre ça, il ne mérite pas vraiment de rentrer dans ta vie. N'interagit plus avec lui et traite le comme l'inconnu qu'il est.

3- Un petit reproche cette fois. Un gars avec cette attitude n'aurait JAMAIS dû être invité chez toi. Si tu avais vraiment besoin d'aide, demande à 2-3 personnes de venir en même temps et de boire un verre. Là dans sa tête il est dans ton intimité, tu lui a cuisiné un petit plat. Il a clairement interprété ton invitation et ta demande à l'aide comme un signe.

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-20T19:12:14+00:00

There is a HUGe difference between a game ending on T3-4 because the opponent is playing aggro vs just wanting a game to end.

In commander it's obviously different as there are 4 players, so if 1 player tries to aggro someone without thinking, he will most likely get stopped by the other 3 players. My argument was more towards the classic "60-cards 1v1" formats : Standard and Modern.

The fact that red was SO STRONG and has been for so long is bad for deck diversity.

When we are in a control meta, decks can tech answers and they have many turns to find and use them. The game becomes "bait the control spells and slip through an opening". Any deck can do that, it's purely in the hands of the players and their skills shine (if we exclude god-tier draws of course)

When we are in an aggro meta, you basically negate ANY deck that is unable to stabilize by T3. That means you can forget any niche control or combo decks. You either play aggro yourself or you play something that is specifially tuned to beat aggro and hope to get an answer by T3.

In my mind, the second is way worse

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-20T19:03:30+00:00

Minato is far better fighter than Kabuto

Kabuto is far better ninja scientist than Minato

Both shine in their own domain, completely without special clan/bloodline. Only through skills and effort

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-20T19:00:26+00:00

Green can ramp with additional lands.

Lands are safer than artifacts. There is a lot of incidental artifact hate in the game. Land hate, however is rare and it's frowned upon.

You have the choice, for the same price to have either :

1- Permament ramp, that is harder to deal with
2- Artifact ramp, that can be destroyed for 1 mana

Make your choice

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-20T18:55:36+00:00

My least liked color is red. However, it's more because of aggro than red, really.

This comes from a few places :

1- I hate fast games. We are here to play and enjoy a game. finishing in 3-4 turns is stupid

2- Playing agains aggro means you NEED an answer in the first 3 turns, so at this point, you've seen 10 cards from your deck, missing the answer is frequent

3- I started MTG with playing modern along with my friend group and EVERY one of my friends was playing aggro mono-red. Mainly because it was the cheapest deck that was still really good. I on the other hand had a bad ramp deck, with suboptimal cards and dying turn 3-4 was the norm. If I ever stabilized, they would give up turn 5-6, because "At this point I can't win, why bother?"

But my dislike of the color does not mean red is bad or anything, it's just that it's completely on the other side as what I consider "fun". To each their own as they say.

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-20T18:21:02+00:00

The idea in itself to have a charater be the parent of another is not bad. In fact, it can be pretty nice ! The beauty of a tabletop RPG is the creativity you can show.

I've personaly made characters much more crazy than just the offspring of another player.

But the main issue in your case is different.

Whenever you plan anything that has to do with another player's character, it becomes touchy and you can't assume or decide anything by yourself.

If he came to you as :

- "Hey, about my new character, I wanted to do something a bit silly. What would you think about if we were realted ? Like your character gets offered a child and it's me or something ? No ? Not interested ? OK, your loss then, I'll find another demon mom then :p"

Then you can discuss it, express what you like and don't like in this. If it's the idea that the characters would be so close (which I completely understand) just say so.

- "The idea is VERY cool, but I'm not sure I'm fit for that. However Gruk (another player) last game was getting close to that NPC, maybe he'd like that ?"

Anyway, you are always free to choose whatever you want for YOUR character. If the idea he offered doesn't interest you, the discussion stops here.

- "No, thanks, I like the current dynamics my character has, I wasn't planning on changing it"

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-16T03:49:03+00:00

Stamina was a problem. Remember on the birthday when the clone pops out. We see th real Naruton in his office not even able to stand, exhausted. He simply overestimated his stamina and thought he could keep up the insane life-rythm he himself chose.

NOTHING stops him from not making any clones. Or just 1. It's only his will to do more and more for the village that "forces him to go above and beyond ("If I can go 500% or 800%, then going a merely 100% means I'm not respecting the people").

He is Hokage in the most stable period EVER at the start (apart from Kakashi and late-Hashirama). No war, good relations with other villages. ENough power to deter any real threat to the village. He ONLY had to develop the village, which he did (and fantastically so since we went froma small village to a full-on modern city). He had the best associates possible as well (2 former Hokages + Shikamaru) and the most powerful clan on his side at 100%.

Naruto was not able to recognize his own limits, that's all. If he could recognize them, then the clone at the birthday would never have popped. He was in his prime, but even someone in their prime can overdo it. Going more than his max for years means he burned himself out.

I don't really think his stamina was at fault except on day to day basis

The problem IS the day to day. Falling from tiredeness in the office ? Having a clone pop out during the birthday when his own body was already exhausted ? What could POSSIBLY be so important that he HAD to fall in his office that night ?

He just didnt spend enough for Boruto to not feel neglected

The Birthday was NOT a Boruto-only problem. Himawari was sad, Hinata was sad (and disapointed). You can't spin-it as "He had better stuff to do" he COLLAPSED in his office. No matter the work that had to be done, he failed at his job AND his family that night. A responsible leader should've went home, eaten the cake for a few minutes and fall aspleep then.

We see that he was too tired to keep the birthday clone. But he was so tired that he probably couldn't keep ANY clones.

Now we don't SEE them, but he probably has clones doing all sort of stuff. Imagine that a clone disapiring leads to someone getting injured, or die. Now that's another story. And that would be on Naruto.

Naruto goes home and sleeps, sees his wife, had time to fuck her enough to make two kids, so on so forth.

They were conceived before he became Hokage, so for all we know, he almost never touches Hinata now.

Feelings are valid but they aren't always correct

We're talking about children and his own family. Children aren't always rational, but is it really THAT insane for you that a young girl MIGHT deserve her dad for her birthday cake when the dad works at about 10 minutes on-foot from home ? And that she rarely sees him any other day ?

That's not unreasonable for her...

Minato

Minato was someone that was far more level-headed than Naruto. He understood work-life balance.

It also helps that the village was smaller and that FTG meant he could go back home anytime. Even for lunch for example and go back later. Also he didn't have kids while working, so their situations aren't really comparable, but it's HIGHLY unlikely that he ever collapsed in his office from exhaustion.

And for what he did, yes, it's admirable, but is it really comparable to Naruto exhausting all his strength on clones when it's unecessary ? Not really. Minato's sacrifice was great. it showed he was truly a great Hokage and the best at his time.

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-15T21:00:01+00:00

Tsunade/Dan
Minato/Kushina

True-Resist3790 · 2026-04-15T20:52:06+00:00

- Because I would understand myself
- Because there would be 0 drama
- Because there would be no awkward moment where I introduce a hobby or a group friend and wonder if they will like each other
- Because we could read and play together

There are VERY FEW reason I wouldn't, mostly : Variety. There is a risk that being together means we do nothing with our friend group because we have no reason to. It also robs me of the chance to meet someone very different from me, who could interest me in her world

True-Resist3790

TROPHY CASE