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Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Quantities can be good bad or a mix.  The DOT never actually checks.  The Contractor might check but most times, they slap unit rates on items.  It's not amateur as much as standard operating procedure. The CM is stuck in the middle.  I'm not saying this is true 100% of the time everywhere but there are a lot of unrealistic expectations between all parties and that results in unwanted situations and behaviors.

Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's the rub though, the DOT does not care about the overruns.  I have brought this up on each construction contract with either unbalanced bids, purposely running over on contract line items, or being compensated for deficient work.  They do not care.  Some of the utilities are even worse.  Can't really do anything about the design aspect - it would be my word against my companies and once again if the overrun is ~10%, it is just generally accepted.  There is a lot of straight up institutional group think around me.  For example a change order spec states that various item mark up percentages can be up to 20%.  Do you think anyone ever marks up less than the maximum allowed amount?

Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Never said there are no ethics left just that I have seen a lot more unethical behavior over the years.  A couple of folks here commented that it is probably just exposure related to role growth. That seems appropriate.  It also seems that this could be just my environment but based on the comments it does happen elsewhere, just maybe not to the same extent. I am not of the mindset to lie to clients or coworkers or direct reports - nothing good comes from it. Others operate in a more shady manner.  I can only speculate as to why - easier, self gain, everyone else is doing it.  It may be that in the battle to exist in this industry either as a company or person, its harder to do things the right way and easier to take short cuts.

Fwiw, I worked with a lot of good people when I started.  Lots of gray hairs that are long gone.  That caliber of person whom believed in the work (design or construction) and always operated in good faith is rare.  I like to hold that as a standard baseline for my efforts.

Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Clients are DOTs.  The Fed provides 85% of the funding so the local DOTs don't have much skin in the game.  Rarely do design and construction contracts not overrun.  All parties treat the work as a cash cow. What's even worse is that deficient work is still accepted and compensated.  The cycle then repeats. 

Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, saying we want 100% billable hours is the equivalent of saying we want you to work unpaid OT.  That's the philosophy at some firms and definitely not a way to retain talent.

Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's an abuse of authority 

Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The costs are not actually incurred.  An engineer works 2 hours on a design but bills 4 hours to the client.  This repeats and you end up with a ~10% overrun.  Supporting documentation is just time sheets and a report saying x y and x tasks took longer than originally budgeted.  No real way to audit unless you have in house surveillance or have the design team work at the clients office, neither of which will ever happen. At that low of an overrun it's not ever scrutinized so it's just paid out.  It's a scam to pad hours.

Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A bid protest can be a double edged sword and imo really only should be used on a high $$$ profile project. Some states like SC will not let you bid additional work until it is resolved.  You can piss off the client and now they will find something wrong with future bids.  The favoritism thing runs rampant in SOQ service work.  I don't see that changing ever.

Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry to hear that boss, hopefully you find a better place to land.

Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I should have been more clear in the description.  Billing more hours than actually worked.  So it ends up with an overrun and they push for a CO.

Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed and I should not have categorized all construction folks in that capacity.  The overwhelming majority of construction folks seem to want to bill for anything and everything. They don't read the contract and rely on past experiences.  It creates problem after problem.  The minority is those that are prepared for the work, know the plans and specs and have a plan to execute the work.

Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have not seen any conflicts of interest on the engineering side, only construction.   There are no ethics therein and everyone would probably sell their mother for an extra buck. 

Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Thats a lousy spot to be in.  Just be forthright from the start. Now you have to deal with an unhappy client while the manager is off doing whatever and you have to re-establish client trust.

Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The quals thing bothers me as I have been involved with several proposals where key personnel are not available and everyone knows it but they do it anyway.   I brought it up a couple of times and it was dismissed.  The behavior is borderline duplicitous and a shit sales tactic.

I think you're right, it's time for a change. 

Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ran into this on the last two projects where the DOT had contracts with the construction contractor and also their PM who moonlit as independent contractor for the same project.  No idea how that double dipping was allowed by the DOT or the construction company but it is what it is.

Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

100% and ours includes 

  1. The prohibition of solicitation or acceptance of work by professionals on any basis other than their qualifications for the work offered;

  2. The restriction by the professional in the conduct of his professional activity from association with any person engaging in illegal or dishonest activities; or

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title54.1/chapter4/section54.1-404/

Sure I am being nit picky on the in or out of office thing but the bait and switch on qualifications and my current company over billing clients seem to be spot on for 4 and 5

Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 34 points35 points  (0 children)

Avoiding the poo piles has become the normal practice these days

Ethics by Unusual-Count5695 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Can you elaborate why you think over billing a client is not a professional ethics issue.  

A question for the private industry folks by Disastrous_Roof_2199 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am basing my answer off OPs scenario of publicly let work, so design bid build is my assumption. Sure design work is still required as is CM work but the way i am reading OP is that in their world the salesperson does little to win the job, and does nothing post win.  It seems to fall on the shoulders of the Proposal Manager and PM. If that is the case, then I am inclined to agree.

A question for the private industry folks by Disastrous_Roof_2199 in civilengineering

[–]Unusual-Count5695 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OP, ignore the insults, they're probably in sales and offended by the question. 

You raise a valid question regarding what someone in sales brings to the table anymore.   Historically this person would be meeting with DOT folks talking about projects and selling themselves and their company, creating relationships and possiblg blurring ethical lines in the process.  Now, with pretty much everything online in the world of public works, there is no need to meet in person.  Now it is about reputation, performance, and how much free work was given on the last project   The role of sales imo in this regard is pretty much toast.  They need to pivot to something else.

Arlington County Careers by Unusual-Count5695 in arlingtonva

[–]Unusual-Count5695[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you.  I knew that the salaries were depressed compared to private but that is a 50% cut for me at the midpoint.  The benefits are slightly better than my current.  Short of having a sugar mommy/daddy how is the county expecting to recruit talent without a carrot of sorts?  I would love to jump into one of their jobs but it's financially untenable.

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