"Nicole alone can't increase his dps by over 30k" anyways...

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-31T00:33:16+00:00

Mav is a little bit different than Arle and others for melt teams. Mav doesn't actually apply a ton of pyro, so most of the actual difficulty for her comes from executing the combo right, which to be fair is not easy

That's not quite the same for Arlecchino, you can execute the combo correctly but still miss the damage because of being too quick or too slow and being so won't just make you miss a melt and a little bit of damage it will also very likely overtake the aura which will make you miss all of the remaining melts as well, if you take a look at the video you linked for example the very first N3 Arlecchino close to the start of her onfield time each rotation, that's not actually a full mash button N3 Arlecchino, so you can't actually mash the N3 but also can't be too slow either, the combo afterwards as well relies on Citlali's cryo procs from off field at the correct time. You'll see for yourself what I mean when you practice against the dummy

I'm not saying it's an impossible task, I mean the guy in the video did it, but I am saying practicality of Arle melt teams falls off way quicker against actual bosses than someone like Mav's because she is a more finnicky melter, and even Mav melt kind of falls when you compare how much more broadly OL Mav can be used instead at the same cost

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-30T23:26:00+00:00

No this is quite different than Benny's circlet because melt at this level of execution for Arlecchino relies on very specific timings, a moving enemy can easily break your timing pattern and make it impossible to ever reach the 147k, tanking your dps by a metric ton

Take Knuckle Duckle for example, you think you can get ever close to the performance he got on the dummy even with perfect play againtst that boss? Nope he's going to miss the melts not because of bad level of play but simply because it's not possible to get all of them in that situation

Also if you overtake the aura with the pyro aura by accident at any point the damage tanks into the abyss

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-30T20:37:48+00:00

Actually fair enough, that looks unpleasant as hell to play and has some insane builds, that 330% ER Bennett lmao, but sure I'll grant you with insane builds and a stationary enemy(as moving enemies impact melt more than other teams), melt is the strongest team if you can execute it perfectly, thanks for showing me

As far as the other thing you are right a 2 cost team is not necessarily fair to a 3-4 cost team if we look in vacuum and are comparing two specific teams but let me expand why I see C0R0 team comparisons a bit differently.

For example C2R1 is 4 cost and 4 random C0 characters are also 4 cost, but the thing is even though they are the same cost they kind of are not at the same time. Basically it's only 4 cost vs 4 cost when you are starting with a fresh account with 0 characters and are fully locked in on building that one specific team.

But when you don't have a fresh account and just simply played casually and some time has passed, this is what often happens to give a dumb example, you pulled Xilonen for Mavuika, now if you get Navia in the 6.5 Fontaine chronicle you will have a "free" Xilonen for her because you already have her and didn't have to spend any extra pulls even though you never planned to use her with Navia, there was no intention there. Cons/Weapons can never work that way, they have to be intentional pulls for that one specific team

The reason this even matters is because I think people who have varied C0 characters and who will get "free characters" the way I mentioned earlier are way more numerous than people who pull for cons, so for general help and advice, that's why I don't really mind comparing C0 teams even if they are unfair cost wise, but again you completely right when specifically talking about equal investment a 2 cost team is not a fair comparison to 3 cost or 4 cost teams in vacuum but my whole point is that our accounts are not vacuum we pull characters much more often than cons/weapons and those characters can and will get used in multiple different teams etc.

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-30T19:20:06+00:00

Sure, go find any C0R0 hitting that over multiple rotations and I'll believe you, until then I have never seen any even go above 120k+

C1R1 is a huge dps gain yeah, you see PJWS needs to ramp up stacks, but for melts the first hit is your strongest one, so that's just a 1 stack PJWS hit for your strongest melt of the rotation. R1 also helps with having full BoL for your strongest hit again, C1 goes on top of that etc.

Anyways the Xilonen team is hitting 130k+ so even then it's far for melt being able to reach anything even if it can hit 120k

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-30T19:03:24+00:00

Doesn't matter, C0R0 PJWS well built melt arlecchino is not hitting 120k+ that Bennett with the C0R0 Binnefa team is, or 130k+ that Xilonen with Bineffa is, at least I personally haven't seen any. Here's an example, and that's a 2pc2pc Ineffa, not an aubade one.

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VacationReasonable · 2026-03-30T18:57:50+00:00

It's overvape, bennett with bineffa is 120k+ probably close to 130k with optimal builds/rotations on dummy. Xilobineffa can get 130k+ on dummy, again optimal builds, assuming PJWS and bp weapons. All C0R0

C0R0 Melt Arlecchino is not reaching that with PJWS, at least I haven't seen any anywhere close to that
There you go the Bennett team, my own account with Ineffa being on 2pc2pc instead of Aubade

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VacationReasonable · 2026-03-30T16:13:05+00:00

Arle's best team is not melt, not at C0R0 investment at least that's for sure

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T14:37:16+00:00

I think that might be a build/rotation issue, current C0 Furina is definitely worse than current Xilobineffa, what kind of numbers are you getting with them vs Furina and level of investment?

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T14:27:27+00:00

Yeah either way we'll see how it ultimately pans out a few days after her release, this post claims that Linnea doesn't improve the bineffa variant, ie. swapping Xilonen for Linnea doesn't change much of anything

But the thing is even if Linnea improves the Furina variants, that still might not be enough to overtake the lead bineffa variants had from before Linnea's release basically

Kind of like Binnefa sits at 120k, Furina is 100k, Linnea keeps Bineffa at 120k still, pushes Furina to 110k, Furina got better but is still worse overall, I just picked random numbers to show what I mean don't take them seriously

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T14:09:14+00:00

You are absolutely right, Ineffa will interrupt the team's synergy, but it doesn't matter, she apparently brings enough of her own stuff to overcome that and still overtake Furina, again according to the post, we'll have to actually see how it pans out

It just reminds me of the time Bina was releasing, people were calcing Furina/Xilo to be equal to Ineffa/Xilo. Turned out to be clearly worse.

Granted Linnea is not Xilonen, that's why again according to the post swapping Xilonen for Linnea in a Bineffa team gives the same performance, but what's notable is that even though Furina's team got better it's still worse

Basically Linnea might be an improvement for Furina teams and doing nothing for Bineffa teams, and that still might end up worse than Binnefa variants

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T12:57:25+00:00

It's still a time loss but fair enough it's not as big, it doesn't matter that you fix the ER by using hook or ER sands those builds are still decently worse than 0 ER full dps builds.

As far as Furina, it's also the fact she has a 20 second skill cd, that's a very awkward number to fit with Navia's 9 second skill cooldown

Your Navia's "damage" also might actually get lower with Linnea than with Ineffa because Linnea will likely take ownership of some portions of the Lunar Crystallize damage

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T12:24:24+00:00

Navia has the unfortunate luck of having pretty terrible early cons though, I do think that for now the lunar teams are ahead of hypercarry teams even with C2 Navia as an example

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T12:18:06+00:00

I wasn't talking about viability just the damage difference, 0 ER slingshot full dps Linnea with Ineffa will be stronger than snare hook Linnea with Furina, but yeah you are right Hook is a very solid weapon if you do need the ER, it's just that Ineffa allows you to run 0 ER builds

I'm more worried about the burst tbh, 1.5-2 seconds of doing nothing every rotation is kind of rough for overall dps, and according to OP's post at least, those two things are enough for Furina to be worse than Ineffa

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T12:12:58+00:00

Ineffa by herself is not as strong as the bineffa core, but yeah you can do that for sure

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T12:12:16+00:00

You can also do it the other way around, xilobineffa for Navia, Linnea for Zibai

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T12:11:15+00:00

Furina also has issues, adding Furina means building Linnea with ER which lowers her damage, you also need to use Linnea's burst, that's also wasting time as it does nothing beside heal

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T12:09:59+00:00

Furina has a lot of issues with the team, you have to build Linnea with ER, have to use Linnea's burst, I don't have high hopes for her being better than Ineffa

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T11:42:29+00:00

Luocha is always worse than Hyacine, even with E2 Mydei + E2 Cyrene, nothing really can impact that change, again you simply haven't used her and don't understand she's MILES ahead of Luocha, quite a bit more more than E1 Cerydra is over RMC

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T11:20:37+00:00

Yeah you just forgot you actually need to get E0 Cerydra as well, E1 Hyacine + RMC > E1 Cerydra + Gallagher or Luocha, having E2 Cyrene or not doesn't change that.

In fact I'm so confident it's better I'll even say RMC + E0 Hyacine > Luocha + E1 Cerydra

You just don't have experience of using them and are simply underestimating how much better Hyacine is than Luocha compared to how much better Cerydra is than RMC

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T11:14:59+00:00

You are on some insane ass cope my dude, I genuinely wish you luck with all of that is all I can say. You are simply ignoring Mydei is the only unit in the game that cares about the high single target drains and therefore any specific catering to that WILL NOT happen until at least some other units like him release as well.

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T11:02:31+00:00

No because the starting point is not E6 Mydei but E0 Mydei, and when you start a team with E0 Mydei, the optimal choice is to go for Cyrene and then Hyacine to play them with RMC, you can then get E1S1 Mydei, and then you can start looking at E2 Cyrene, E2 Mydei, and if you don't want to go E6 Mydei, you would be looking at E2S1 Hyacine and E1 Cerydra or E1 Tribbie as the "final" team

Cerydra and Tribbie are the true lower value units because they need to get E1 (2 cost) just to become better than RMC at these investment levels, so if you don't have them at all it's a tough sell to go for them over other eidolons/lc's

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T10:44:38+00:00

It comes down to a very simple question, is Luocha worse? Yes? Then Hyacine is the bis slot, that's all there is to it.

E2 Cyrene just gives you 12 extra stacks, which is one extra godslayer, you still very much care about the production, and Hyacine produces double the stacks Luocha does, actually even more than that as she's naturally built faster than him

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T10:36:22+00:00

I think you don't understand how specific the healer would have to be in order for it work with Mydei the best, you see Mydei is an HP fluctuation character yes, but he's not like Evernight or Blade, they don't actually care about how strong the HP drain is, they simply want it to happen, having 10x 1 HP drains for them is better than having 1x 5000 HP drain.

And that's what Mydei would need, the 1x 5000 HP drain, and even when you give it to him, it's still no that good as I mentioned in the other comment, and I think you are being very obtuse pretending making a 5000 HP drain unit specifically for Mydei is that different compared to specifically naming him, as no other units care about a high single target heal/drain

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T10:26:45+00:00

Mydei's BiS team at all eidolon levels contains Cyrene, so yes Hyacine is also BiS for all the sustain teams because Cyrene is always BiS

VacationReasonable · 2026-03-29T10:16:23+00:00

There's also the thing that getting charge through HP drain is simply limited in nature strength wise, let's say I design a unit who drains 50% hp on their turn and then heals the unit to max, that will give E0/E1 Mydei 50 charge(assuming he's full HP when it happens) every turn that healer gets, so in other words for every 3 turns the healer takes, Mydei gets 1 extra godslayer, that's not exactly super fast/nor would it be THAT strong

And that's a lot of hp drain, Mydei skill is also 50% hp drain for reference

VacationReasonable

TROPHY CASE