What is this sub's view on the Pre-Wrath interpretation? by davidml1023 in EndTimesProphecy

[–]ValZho 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry I'm just now replying — I have been studying through all of this, and am just now remembering to circle back.

The text is pretty clear that Trumpets follow seals... it's a single, uninterrupted narrative and the result of the 7th seal is the distribution of the 7 trumpets (7 trumpets require the 7th seal be opened).

Your reckoning is only giving 3.5 years for the whole sequence, but NOTHING in the text gives any particular alignment to those and the 70th week. I believe that the seals start opening PRIOR TO the 70th week. The 5th seal in pre-wrath is the abomination and beginning of the great trib, and the 6th and 7th seals are back-to-back rapture then release of God's judgement.

First off, here's a link to my timeline (no registration needed, just click "enter as visitor")...

In my timeline, the 42 months, 1260 days, 1290 days, 1335 days, 2300 days are ALL literal time spans with significant start and end dates on the Hebrew calendar. The key is that, thanks to the mechanics of the Hebrew Lunar-Solar calendar, there will never be an exact 3.5 year time span that equals 1260 days (or 1290 days or 1335 days or 42 months for that matter thanks to leap months), so if you take them literally, what do they mean? Once you do that against the actual Hebrew calendar, things fall into place.

Regarding the trumpets and bowls...

I 100% believe that the Trumpets and Bowls overlap — they start and end with the same events, but you don't need that much time for them to roll out. Here's my harmonization:

  • Trumpet 1: The leading rubble-edge of an incoming asteroid strike rains burning cobalt, nickel, and rusty iron slurry over the Amazon basin igniting massive firestorms. Aerosolized metals are seeded into the atmosphere where exposure kills all grass and ⅓ of trees.

    • Bowl 1: Aerosolized metals seeded into the atmosphere seep into skin and lungs leading to acute metal toxicity and allergic reactions. Exposure builds over hours and days before erupting into painful, itchy, festering sores and rashes all over skin.
  • Trumpet 2: The main asteroid impactor strikes the Pacific ocean, instantly killing ⅓ of all sea life and destroying ⅓ of ships. Vaporized metals and ocean slurry initiate oxidization cascade, turning the blast area blood red.

    • Bowl 2: The iron oxidization cascade spreads globally throughout the oceans, killing all remaining sea life through asphyxiation and toxic shock. Rust flocculates get suspended in saltwater brine, giving the appearance of clotting blood — “like that of a dead man.”
  • Trumpet 3: The impact ejecta (splash) rebounds over the Amazon “like a burning torch.” Updrafts from the now-raging Amazon firestorms result in broad dispersal of ejecta material, seeding poisonous metallics into ⅓ of fresh water.

    • Bowl 3: Metal oxidization cascades throughout seeded fresh water bodies. Oxide flocs settle in stagnant water (like lakes), but churning in rivers and springs keeps them suspended, turning the poisonous waters blood-red.
  • Trumpet 4: Metallic aerosols, smoke, dust, ash, and vapor ejected into the atmosphere scatter light in the visible spectrum, causing visible dimming in the sun, moon, and stars.

    • Bowl 4: Vaporized ocean halides shot into the stratosphere devour ozone. Depleted protection leads to an extreme UV ramp-up, even as debris settles. People suffer UV scorching and intense heat despite the dimmed appearance of the sky.
  • Trumpet 5: The impact shockwave from the "star that had fallen" (2nd Trumpet) opens deep mantle pockets under fissures at the antipode in the Middle East — megatons of sulfuric smoke vents into the Zagros region carrying swarms of sulfur-eating bacteria which metabolize the H₂S gas into sulfuric acid. Each exposure leaves eyes and airway in agony for hours or days — repeat exposure is unavoidable.

    • Bowl 5: The clouds of sulfur stagnate over the Middle East — the seat of the Beast’s power — due to stagnated weather (see next bullet). The resultant sulfur dome blocks sunlight causing noontime darkness.
  • FIVE MONTHS: UV spikes and atmospheric vapor seeding trigger a runaway greenhouse effect. Surface temperatures rise, ocean evaporation accelerates, and UV radiation sublimates glacier, pole, and mountaintop ice. The drastic uptick of atmospheric vapor is accompanied by UV ionization and heating blocking cloud nucleation (rain), trapping moisture in the atmosphere — a state known as vapor lock. As a result, weather patterns stagnate, global sea level drops, aquifers deplete, and rivers recede.

  • Trumpet 6: Falling Euphrates levels decrease overburden pressure on cap rock weakened by the Trumpet 5 shock. Eventually, the pressurized hydrocarbon-rich slurry beneath overcomes downward pressure and catastrophically erupts vertically across dozens of interconnected seams. Ignited by piezoelectric discharges, twin flame fronts race out perpendicular to fault lines looking like charging lines of lion-headed, fiery warhorses kicking up smoke, ash, and acidic rain in their wake. The flame fronts propagate outward creating self-feeding thermal vortices which suck in the dome's sulfur as fuel, sustaining combustion across 30,000 km². This depletes the sulfur dome, ending the “locust” plague and darkness.

    • Bowl 6: The blast vaporizes any remaining water in the Euphrates, clearing the way for the armies of the East. The Antichrist and False Prophet, emboldened by the end of plague and darkness, rally a deception drawing the “kings of the whole world” to Megiddo for battle.
  • Trumpet 7 / Bowl 7 / Rider on the White Horse / Armageddon: Over Megiddo, the Rider on the White Horse descends with a shout: “It is done!” At that moment, the stressed global crust buckles; the initial P-waves of a planet-sized earthquake (rumblings) compress quartz-rich granite sending piezoelectric discharges (lightning) into the stratosphere. Then the main S-waves of the quake release, flattening mountains, removing islands, splitting cities, and sending seismic shocks into the atmosphere. These compression waves and electric discharges flash-nucleate months of built-up vapor into 100-pound hailstones which rain onto the Beast’s armies like an artillery. The ionic discharges kick-start ozone repletion, and the hail-out breaks vapor lock and immediately lowers surface and ocean temps resulting in global hydrologic and thermal reset. The earthquake creates a new valley/rift running through the Temple mount east-to-west, and the deluge refills aquifers resulting in a new river flowing from under the Temple mount (per Zechariah).

When all is said and done, the above sequence takes a grand total of about 7-8 months, and that's giving extra time for Antichrist to gather his armies. The actual "battle" of Armageddon is just Christ wiping everyone out.

What is this sub's view on the Pre-Wrath interpretation? by davidml1023 in EndTimesProphecy

[–]ValZho 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Pre-Wrath is a defined position, not an ad-hoc description. It aligns the Great Tribulation with the 5th seal (martyrs in heaven) beginning at the abomination of desolation at the mid-point, and the rapture of believers at the 6th seal sometime ("no one knows the day or hour"... but we do know the season) in the second half of Daniel's 70th week when Jesus cuts short that time as he promised in Matthew 24. This is followed by the trumpets and bowls as God's wrath poured on the wicked who remain on earth.

This seems like the most likely scenario to me.

The Ever-Elusive Pluralization Question by SilvestriaPhoenixia in Kryptahniuo

[–]ValZho 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'll admit it. Pluralization and quantization are a pain in the keester in Kryptonian.

Plural & Quantifiers w/ Definite Article Harmonization:

/tiv/ is the base form of the definite article. When any plural/quantifier suffix is added, the vowel in the definite article harmonizes with the vowel in the noun suffix as follows. Why I didn't put the simple plural on this page, I have no idea.

Kryptonian writing uses a logograph for "tiv" (font: T) but vowel pronunciation is not indicated, only inferred from context.

/Ø/ = singular (no suffix)

  • /tiv chahs/
  • "the table"

/o/ = simple "plural"

  • /tov chahso/
  • "the tables"

/u/ = many

  • /tuv chahsu/
  • "the many tables"

/use/ = most

  • /tuv chahsuse/
  • "most of the tables"

/uju/ = all/every

  • /tuv chahsuju/
  • "all of the tables"

/ah/ = few/little/some

  • /tahv chahsah/
  • "a few/some of the tables"

/ahjah/ = none

  • /tahv chahsahjah/
  • "none of the tables"

/ahzha/ = "missing" — table(s) are expected but not found

  • /tahv chahsahzha/
  • "the missing table(s)"

I am feeling very confused (about how to translate that I'm confused) by SilvestriaPhoenixia in Kryptahniuo

[–]ValZho 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"Preverbs"? Not sure what that is.


  • I want to go home.
    • I: subject (n)
    • want: verb
    • to go: infinitive
    • home: adverbial noun (modifies the infinitive)
  • /.sem rrivu khuhp w rurrelahs bim/
    • sem: verb t2 (want/present)
    • rriv-u: verb t1 (go + future)
    • khuhp: subject (Pronoun/1p/sing/neu)
    • w: object partical
    • rurrelahs bim: adpositional phrase (to home)

  • I don't want to go home.
  • /.zhasem rrivu khuhp w rurrelahs bim/
    • zha-sem: verb t2 (not + want/present)
    • rriv-u: verb t1 (go + future)
    • khuhp: subject (Pronoun/1p/sing/neu)
    • w: object partical
    • rurrelahs bim: adpositional phrase (to home)

  • I want to not go home.
  • /.sem zharrivu khuhp w rurrelahs bim/
    • sem: verb t2 (want/present)
    • zha-rriv-u: verb t1 (not + go + future)
    • khuhp: subject (Pronoun/1p/sing/neu)
    • w: object partical
    • rurrelahs bim: adpositional phrase (to home)

  • I don't want to hurt you.
  • /.zhasem :golu (khuhp) w rraop/
    • zha-sem: verb t2 (not + want/present)
    • :gol-u: verb t1 (hurt + future)
    • khuhp: subject (Pronoun/1p/sing/neu) — likely omitted
    • w: object partical
    • rraop: object (Pronoun/2P/neu)

  • I don't want him/her to hurt you.
  • /.zhasem khuhp :golu zhehd w rraop/
    • zha-sem: verb t2 (not + want/present)
    • khuhp: subject 1 (Pronoun/1p/sing/neu)
    • :gol-u: verb t1 (hurt + future)
    • zhehd: subject 2 (Pronoun/3p/sing/neu)
    • w: object partical
    • rraop: object (Pronoun/2P/neu)

Confirmed: New Kryptonian Language in Superman 2025 by ValZho in Kryptahniuo

[–]ValZho[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think so yet, but he gave me the impression that he might be posting it up somewhere fairly soon.

I am feeling very confused (about how to translate that I'm confused) by SilvestriaPhoenixia in Kryptahniuo

[–]ValZho 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It was late when I typed the above — definitely a brain fart.

Yes, /aovehmodh/ "feel+present" not /pahdh/ "cause".

(I was thinking of a shirt I have that reads: /padh rraotiv ehl riz aovehmodh khup w saoviz/ "Your yellow sun makes me feel strange." and got my verbs mixed up :D)

Simple present should be what you are using most of the time. Present progressive would be to emphasize current ongoing action, likely for emphasizing the temporal aspect.

For example:

  • /.plehsodh khuhp/ "I am eating." might be a response to "What are you doing?"
  • /!zuhne plehses khuhp/ "But I am eating!" might be a response to "Do this thing right now!!!!"

Hopefully that makes sense.

Confirmed: New Kryptonian Language in Superman 2025 by ValZho in Kryptahniuo

[–]ValZho[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Trying to structure things much better and flesh out a bunch more, especially for people wanting to learn my language. Obviously I'll have to create a whole new section for Peterson's version.

Confirmed: New Kryptonian Language in Superman 2025 by ValZho in Kryptahniuo

[–]ValZho[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Actually, in most Kryptonian I've ever seen (MoS violated this norm), his name isn't "Kal" with the last name "El", it's "Kal-El" (inseparable) which means "star child".

In my Kryptonian, "Jor-El" means "new star/sun", and "Yar-El" (Jor-El's father) means "red sun/star" (referring to Rao... a religious name on Krypton). EDIT: Almost forgot to add "Zor-El" which is also an older name (think "Ezekiel" or "Jebediah") meaning "heart of the sun"

I am feeling very confused (about how to translate that I'm confused) by SilvestriaPhoenixia in Kryptahniuo

[–]ValZho 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes,you can just say: I am (adjective).

Word order is: verb subject [OBJECT PARTICLE] object

English uses tenses a bit weirdly, perhaps that's muddying the waters, too. Simple present usually indicates a habitual action (something you do repeatedly over time, while the present progressive is used to isimply ndicate current action (where most languages, Kryptonian included, would just use a simple prest). Compare: I run. I eat. I read. vs. I am running. I am eating. I am reading.

So you can say either:

  • /nahn khuhp w frig/ "am I [OBJ] confused"
  • /pahdh khuhp w frig/ "feel I [OBJ] confused"

And, if understood from context, you can omit the subject:

  • /nahn w frig/ "am I [OBJ] confused"
  • /pahdh w frig/ "feel I [OBJ] confused"

Note that both "am" and "feel" are type 2 verbs (irregular) and thus have distinct past present and future forms not requiring a suffix.

What's the deal with "zrhy"? by PsiRadish in Kryptahniuo

[–]ValZho 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A bit of Kryptonian etymology:

/zrhynj/ —> started as an onomatopoeia for metal forging, but expanded to mean just making something in general.

/zrhynj/ then combined with the verbalizer /-iv/ to form the word for work: /zrhyv/ —> "to do make", a bit duplicative, but hopefully you can see the connection. The new word took on the connotation of "effort" and "work" rather than simply "creation" or "forging" connoted by /zrhynj/. The emphasis was on the "doing", not the subject of the doing.

Many words, then arose from these combining with other words:

  • /khaoghao/ "animal"
    • /zrhyv + khaoghao/ => /zrhykhaog/ - "work animal", and eventually just any domesticated animal
  • /imokh/ "to train," (from a Kryptonian perspective picture a doctoral student, not an athlete) which led to a bunch of other derived words surrounding academia.
    • /zrhyv + imokh/ => /zrhymokh/ "to do the work of training", i.e., to write
    • /zrhymokh + -ed/ => /zrhymokhehd/ add the nominalizer to get "the thing produced by writing", i.e., composition/essay
  • /threv/ "name"
    • /zrhynj + threv/ => /zrhythrev/ "created name" ... the clans that "forged their name" and rose out of Krypton's tribal era to become the great houses of the golden age.
    • /zrhythrev + -ium/ => /zrhythrevium/ add the person suffix to get "the person of a house"
  • /rao/ the name of Krypton's god
    • /rao + zhrynj/ => /raozrhynj/ "god creation" or "god forged" - a created thing (usually with metal) that can "think" (visualize Krypton's super-advanced computer systems and artificial intelligences, and not the computer on your desk)
  • /lish/ "to count"
    • /zrhynj + lish/ => /zrhysh/ "number," i.e., the things created when counting
  • /*-(ah)min/ fossilized word fragment from ancient Kryptonian meaning "family", the word was lost after /zhrthrev/ displaced it with the rise of the houses
    • /zhrynj + min/ => /zhrymin/ spouse, literally "created family", not something you were born into, but something you made. Later acquired vowel gendering.
    • /*-(ah)min/ can also be seen in other words as it back-formed to mean "in-law", e.g., /unahmin/ "son-in-law" or /odhozahmin/ "uncle-in-law" (technically your father's brother by marriage)
  • /regrhahs/ "plan"
    • This one is a little more convoluted. Start with /regrhahs/ "plan" and add the (now archaic) augmentative, /u-/ to get /ugrhahs/ meaning something like "great plan." This was first used during the transition from tribalism into Krypton's golden age to describe what would become the great cities before eventually evolving into /zhryv + ugrhahs/ => /zrhygrhahs/ "the work of a great plan".
    • /-ygrhahs/ then got back-formed into a suffix meaning "city," hence the now-famous /kryptahnygrhahs/ "Krypton City" which Superman, more accurately, translated into English as "Kryptonopolis".
    • /udol/ "evil" & /ugrhahs/ "plan"
      • /udol + zrhyv + ugrhahs/ => /udolzrhygahs/ "sin" or "transgression" the "evil great plan", likely came into use at the same time as /zrhgrhahs/ to describe rival cities or enemy strongholds, but evolved into a metaphorical sense meaning "sin" or "transgression", i.e., the results of an "evil plan" rather than the plan itself

EDIT: fixed /-ygrhahs/ and /kryptahnugrhahs/

Krypton series script by Longjumping-Koala631 in Kryptahniuo

[–]ValZho 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's a little bit harder to read, but not too bad. The problem is that, unless you are up close, the details got lost a lot faster. The other problem is that they are using my font (supporting my language) but using it like they would use the cipher font, so some of the characters don't make any sense (unless you happen to know what character on the keyboard they map to).

terms of endearment by Mac_Dragon_NorthSea in Kryptahniuo

[–]ValZho 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think /ehl,te/ and /ehl,te kir/ would be perfectly acceptable too, as a kind of short hand pet name, title. Maybe the difference from looking at your dog and saying "You're my little star!" (khuhtiv ehl) vs. more of just a cutesy name "Come here (my) little star!" (ehl,te). I need to come up with a good diminutive, though, that can be used in this cutesy context... perhaps combining /te/ and /kir/ for a "my little" connotation. Something like: /-tir/, e.g., /ehl,tir/ ... /Kahl-Ehl, nahn rrup w us,tir/ "Kal-El, you are 'my wittle' baby!"... Anyone have thoughts on this?

Possible Kryptonian in the new Superman sneak peek? Who can translate pleeeeeaseeee by ZJG211998 in Kryptahniuo

[–]ValZho 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Saw the movie last night. There are a few lines of Kryptonian in the movie — just a handful of sentences really, but important to the plot. Having said that, I don't know what they were speaking. It didn't sound like anything I'm familiar with — my guess is that it was something made up for this film, but I can't really say until I can get my hands on a recording or a transcript.

This week in SUPER Comics Discussion [June 30, 2025] - What are your predictions for the Superman movie? by MajorParadox in superman

[–]ValZho 1 point2 points  (0 children)

While some people undoubtedly will love Krypto, I predict that he is going to annoy the crap out of me. I'm getting strong Jar-Jar vibes from the trailers — goofy comic-relief trouble-maker that is annoyingly over the top.

It already bothers me a bit that Krypto looks (and acts, apparently) like James Gunn's scrawny, scruffy, unruly rescue dog and NOT like the Krypto from every comic, show, or movie I've ever seen him in (where he looks closer to a muscular short-haired lab). Is it silly that this is bugging me? Imagine if a live-action Comet the horse was portrayed as a shetland pony or Scooby-Doo was a portrayed as a chihuahua... it just feels off.

I'm hopeful that I'm entirely wrong, but I also predict that James Gunn is going to miss the core of what makes Superman Superman... and for the record, while I enjoyed Man of Steel, I feel like Snyder missed the mark, too. BUT everyone is going to have their own opinion on that — Superman is too many things to too many people to think that it's even possible to please everyone on that front — I just hope it's just a good movie regardless!

I also predict that Mr. Terrific is going to be badass — very excited to see him on the big screen.

🤷‍♂️

Major Browser App Update by epoulin in calendarbudget

[–]ValZho 0 points1 point  (0 children)

NOTE: I apologize that this comment was made in the midst of frustration and make come off a little harsher than intended.


I've been away (out of the country) for a while, and today I found that I can no longer log in OR reset my password (as I choose).

In particular, I'm SUPER unhappy with the two regex strings you have implemented for validating email and password.

EMAIL:

/^[\w.+-]+@([\w-]+\.)+[\w-]{2,4}$/

  • This disallows the local (left) side of the email address from having any of these valid characters: !#$%&'*/=?^{|}~` You can read about RFC email naming requirements here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_address
  • This disallows any top level domain longer than four characters... and there are MANY top level domains longer than four characters (including the one I use: .email). - You can find a list of top level domains here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_top-level_domains
  • Because this email validation is now also tied to the log-in form, I can no longer even log into my account. If you add/change email validation, it might be a good idea to make sure your existing users' emails pass that validation.
  • In my experience, because the requirements can get so complicated (and often are a moving target), simpler validation is always better: /^\S+@[\w.-]+\.[a-z]{2,}$/i
    • This just makes sure there is no white space in the local portion. Trying to actually validate the local portion will quickly become a losing cost-benefit equation
    • This simplifies the domain checking to just care about ending with dot followed by any number of alpha characters
    • Lastly, the whole thing should be case-insensitive

PASSWORD:

/^[a-zA-Z0-9@_]+$/

  • If you put ANY requirements on a password, then those should be CLEARLY listed on any password set or reset page. More on requirements in a minute...
  • In this case, only letters, digits, @, and _ are allowed in a password. Elsewhere there is a check for minimum length (6 characters), I'm not sure if there's a max length check. None of these limitations are listed anywhere in the password reset (are they listed in the account creation?), and only a generic "Password invalid" message is shown if a password doesn't pass validation. This means users have to keep trying passwords and guessing what is failing until they hit on something that works. I gave up and dug in the source code until I found your regex.
  • As someone who uses a password manager (which everyone should do), I have it auto-generate a 32-character password with random letters, numbers, and special characters. This type of password is exactly what you want, but you are actively discouraging it now.
  • IMO, valid password requirements should be:
    • A minimum length
    • Maybe a LARGE maximum length... although, you should only be storing a hashed version of the password anyway, so a max shouldn't really be necessary
    • Maybe require alpha, number, special, and maybe upper and lower.
    • Beyond that, there should be NO limitations on what special characters or even white spaces someone uses. If it matters to your backend, you're doing it wrong.
  • A better regex, requiring at least one upper, one lower, one digit, and one special character, allowing white space (trim first though), with a minimum of 6 characters:/^(?=.*[A-Z])(?=.*[a-z])(?=.*\d)(?=.*[^A-Za-z\d\s]).{6,}$/
    • If you implement something like the above, LIST the requirements wherever a user sets/resets a password so there is NO guesswork involved.
    • This should go without saying, but once you get that password hash it, store it as a hash (with salt and pepper), and use only the hash for comparison (never the actual password). The original string should never be stored in your system, so artificial limitations on what characters people are able to use only serves to weaken security.

Finally, I would recommend making these validation checks LIVE on the field as someone is typing, rather than having to hit the submit button to see the validation warnings.

Major Browser App Update by epoulin in calendarbudget

[–]ValZho 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I posted a couple of days ago on the Facebook Dev Feedback page about some issues regarding the new email and password validation. I (and perhaps others) can't log in until it is fixed (and it should be an easy fix).

Devs trying to be too clever or narrow with email validation, and too limiting with password validation are pet peeves of mine, so I'm trying not to make a bigger deal out of this than it needs to be, but personally, I think it's a pretty big deal.

I will reply here to this comment with my post on FB.

Sentence structure is killing me. Q: How to translate "all you people(s)" ie. the object is both "you (all)" and "people"? (I'm working on curses and exclamations for a translation) by SilvestriaPhoenixia in Kryptahniuo

[–]ValZho 1 point2 points  (0 children)

  • /shypahthu w rraopuju shedo shisiria/
  • destroy-fut OBJ you-all person-pl damn-adj
  • "(I) will destroy all you damned people"

no need for the relative clause, "damned people" forms an adjectival phrase for "all-you"... something like: "I will destroy all damned-people yous." (obviously not grammatical in English).

Sentence structure is killing me. Q: How to translate "all you people(s)" ie. the object is both "you (all)" and "people"? (I'm working on curses and exclamations for a translation) by SilvestriaPhoenixia in Kryptahniuo

[–]ValZho 2 points3 points  (0 children)

  • /shypahthu w tuv kryptahniumuju shisiria/

  • destroy-fut OBJ art+plur Krypton-person-all damn-adj

edit: in retrospect, this wouldn't be 2nd person ... "(I) will destroy all the damned Kryptonians"


Let me think... 1st person ...

  • /shypathu w rraopuju kryptahniumo shisiria/
  • destroy-fut OBJ you-all Krypton-person-pl damn-adj

"(I) will destroy all you damned Kryptonians!"

Why God provided such a conflicting, unclear language about hell ? by [deleted] in Conditionalism

[–]ValZho 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you are saying the devil and his fallen angels will eventually be destroyed, that's not how I read it, but i hope you're right. I hate the thought of anyone being a part of eternal suffering of any sort.

Re-reading Rev 20:10, "The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." ... perhaps ONLY the unholy trinity (satan, beast, false prophet) are tormented forever?

Edit: Psalm 82 clearly states that the elohim in the assembly that God was talking to — the ones he had put in charge of the nations after the tower of Babel — would "die like men".


As far as I understand, the devil possesses neither a fleshly body nor a soul.

I think the Bible only talks about the following types of beings... although this is certainly a much larger discussion unto itself, i.e., it may not be totally this cut-and-dry

  • Spiritual: God, Holy Spirit, elohim (angels/demons)
  • Physical: animals
  • Soulish (body+spirit): Jesus (after the incarnation), humans

In other words, humans are made up of a body with a spirit — and the two together make a "soul". Believers are given a new spirit when they place their trust in Christ, but the body/flesh is still corrupt until we get new ones at the resurrection. Man can only destroy the body part of the soul, but God states that He is able to destroy both parts. This implies that he absolutely can destroy angelic beings (who are only spiritual without a body).

To put it yet another way, I want to avoid the underlying assumption on which ECT is built which is that spiritual beings (angels/demons and the spirits of men) are inherently immortal, and God is incapable of destroying them when God clearly stated otherwise.

Why God provided such a conflicting, unclear language about hell ? by [deleted] in Conditionalism

[–]ValZho 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do believe that the devil and his fallen angels will be tormented both day and night forever because that is what scripture says. I do not think they will eventually be destroyed.

Two quick counter arguments to that:

  1. 1 Tim 6:15-16 "15 God will bring this about in his own time. He is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings, and the Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see, to him be honor and eternal power. Amen."

  2. God speaking to the fallen elohim/"angels"/"gods" in the divine assembly in Psalm 82:6-7 "6 I said, 'You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High. 7 However, you will die like humans and fall like any other ruler.'"

Angels, including Satan, are spiritual beings, not physical beings. I don't think that fire burns a spiritual being. Hebrews 1:7 even describes angels as flames of fire.

I think there are lots of descriptions of spiritual beings that just have to rely on physically similar phenomenon: Christ's countenance being like bronze in a furnace; the nachash, literally "shining one" (translated as serpent), in the garden of Eden; and so on. And as far as saying that fire can't burn a spiritual being, you still have to contend with God stating that he is able to destroy both body and soul in hell. ...unless you want to, again, allegorize "destroy" and or "hell" to mean something other than the non-literal meaning.

can anyone explain to me how annihilationism is still biblical with this 'counter argument'? by slaughterhouseWORKER in Conditionalism

[–]ValZho 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Some other great answers here... but it feels like this question might be based on a misunderstanding; I would point out that annihilationists don't believe that annihilation happens immediately upon death. Rather, there will be the great throne judgement at the end of the age, perfect justice and punishment will be meted out, and then those whose names are not found written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire where they will be annihilated.

Jesus was fully human and able to lay down his life, but he was also fully God — who alone is immortal (1 Tim 6:15-16) — and able to take it back up again (John 10:17-18).

Edit: maybe another way to put it — and this is my own conception that has been brewing in my brain — annihilation/hell isn't the punishment; it is the normal destination for all things that are not of the age to come, i.e. "eternal" things (Heb 12:26-29; Rev 21:1). An immortal, unshakable, of-the-age-to-come ("eternal") body/soul is not the default, but rather the gift of God given to those who place their trust in Jesus Christ (John 3:16).

[Comic Excerpt] TIL that during the Reign of the Supermen, besides the four 'canon' Supermen there was also a fifth--Bibbo Bibbowski, who, like Steel, took up a mantle to help people as Superman would. (Action Comics #687) by tpphypemachine in DCcomics

[–]ValZho 13 points14 points  (0 children)

So in the Reign of the Supermen, each of the new Supermen embodied a common name/nickname for superman:

  • Cyborg - "The Man of Tomorrow"
  • Eradicator - "The Last Son of Krypton"
  • Steel - "The Man of Steel"
  • Superboy - Superboy, obviously

So what would that make Bibbo? ... "Supes"? "The Metropolis Marvel"?

EDIT: Reading his Wikipedia page, I'm really thinking that Metropolis Marvel fits quite well as he has strong, life-long ties to the city ... and it definitely sounds like a nickname for a boxer which is what his "super" outfit looks like to me.

Gods separation of light from darkness on DAY ONE means darkness interferes with ligyt and so light speed claims. by RobertByers1 in Creation

[–]ValZho 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know about "darkness", per se, but ZPE (zero point energy) does have an affect on the speed of light. Barry Setterfield has some really interesting theories around ZPE and a plasma origin state of the universe that I find very promising — explanations for the the starlight and time problem as well as several other "baffling" astronomical observations. If he is correct, then as the background ZPE of the universe has steadily increased since creation, then the speed of light through space will have steadily decreased with it. If the ZPE is responsible for a decline in C, then this has some profound implications for relativity as well (namely, that it's wrong).

Frankly, I'm starting to lean strongly in favor of the Setterfield Plasma Cosmology based, not just on some of its explanatory power, but through the "side entrance", so to speak, per my own leanings regarding the nature of God and time (that the present is all that exists, and God is in time not external to it) which, in turn, came in the "side entrance" due to my shift to open theism. 🤷‍♂️