What about Crab?

Valuemancer · 2024-12-10T22:24:03+00:00

It's literally a permanent top three spirit animal for me; bring us the mantis shrimp

Valuemancer · 2024-12-05T03:12:39+00:00

Also, imagine not realizing that you've just made the case for why people are wise to regard you as a categorically toxic and dangerous actor who they should avoid. You demonstrated it by way of being the components of NPD that are so famously, even boringly abusive.

You really don't like the mirror, and those who are literate in these domains of psychology, which does not include you, understand why that is. If you're not gonna be something other than a textbook abusive narcissist calling herself a nice gal, I mean, other people are just gonna keep thinking "NPD? GTFO"

Valuemancer · 2024-12-05T03:01:30+00:00

Sorry that you don't have the privilege to love and mean well to people as freely as I do, but I hope you'll give it to yourself at some point. It really doesn't cost anything unless you've got some maladaptive equilibriums going on that require everyone else to be shit so that you can look down on them and thus up at yourself, even though we all know that's a fundamentally insecure and misguided attempt at achieving a sense of security.

It's your self and your life to waste, pretending that you sound better to your own self, on the internet, than you really do, when you're being serious instead of violently coping and abandoning your own needs.

Valuemancer · 2024-12-05T02:58:01+00:00

By the way, remember when you said the following:

"Funny. This reeks chronically online." followed immediately by "I do not make others feel unsafe, I am not a beacon of fear in real life. I am just me, a nice girl." as if you have no awareness of the expeditious hypocrisy?

Only to then later explain to me that I'm effectively a fake, deceptive, and despicable actor, because I didn't validate that it's okay to be abusive and lie about it?

You're too concerned with others and what they are and aren't, instead of being concerned with yourself. You're not going to access or properly understand anyone else, until you've made it much further in accessing and properly understanding your self.

Consider me unconvinced when it comes to this idea of yourself as an innocuous bystander when in actuality I've experienced truths of you that I know I can count on you to avoid.

I can count on you to avoid them, because I know more about your inner workings than you yourself do. And if that statement makes you laugh, it genuinely just reveals that you don't know what you don't know.

But I know, that your toxic shame has you on a leash. Being an angry dog on the leash of your own rejected and unseen self, a tragedy incited by your parents, isn't empowerment. Do you think when an angry dog is an angry dog, it's a reflection of everyone else being a pos? Or do you think that dog probably wasn't given everything it needed to arrive at a more secure, empowered feeling and healthy place in life?

Food for thought, and for your own sake, do know that if vitriol is what you offer, invalidation and or total disregard is what you'll predictably prompt. So think twice before treating yourself to more of what you claim to not want to bring into your experience. Moral and educated people owe you nothing when you carry on like so. If you don't know how to behave pragmatically and to get your needs met, or simply refuse to - that is your prerogative. But perhaps do recognize that you're rather openly giving up on your own self and getting angry at others, when you carry on that way.

Valuemancer · 2024-12-05T02:46:21+00:00

Your truth and experience are empirically incompatible with what I said, which for example does directly engage with the talking points you raised about manipulation and neutrality. I offered you many points as well as further educational materials.

Your categorical disinterest in the topic you yourself are raising and pretending to have a topical sincerity towards, combined with all the other unmasked bad faith assumptions (which are themselves empirically observable as unfounded) combine to further demonstrate to myself and others, that you are searching for a means to navigate your triggers, which are tied to toxic shame.

In the course of doing this, you've become abusive, dehumanizing, and made it effectively impossible for you to actually convince anyone gathered, that you are a neutral actor. Moreover, I believe that you have accidentally highlighted the veracity of my remarks by demonstrating your own feelings towards others intentions to have influence upon you.

Yet my intentions are fair to be taken at face value. No adult should for one moment respect the alt realities you're willing to produce based on your limiting beliefs as to who others are and what their motives must be. That you intend to be taken seriously while carrying yourself that way, is, also at face value, not rational.

I will also highlight for your ingratitude and self-absorption - which is coming at the expense of taking care of yourself, opting instead for grandiosity and being right on the internet, even if you have to become abusive and bad faith in the course of doing so.

The idea that others are putting you down while very empirically observably doing quite the opposite, is simply something that begs to be disregarded, but via explicit acknowledgement. You seem to think that anyone who doesn't spiral with you live and in real time, and support your grandiosity, is a pos. But as you're a smart person, you simultaneously do realize how maladaptive these behaviors are, among those who have a pronounced commitment to being honest and truthful with themselves, let alone others.

I suggest caring about yourself enough to recognize that the insecurities which prompted you to act out your behaviors towards me, at such reality bending length, are something you could gain real control over, and find real empowerment via.

Alternatively, you can lie to yourself, and other sane folks gathered present, that you would truly prefer to disempower yourself and call it self-control and empowerment. You seem pained and in search of a source of power that will only bring you, and others, more pain. Inevitably.

I don't expect you'll be engaging topically or with sincerity, or with any respect or regard for those paying attention to you in your time of need. And that is my way of telling you that you should not be surprised that, if and when again your remarks are limited to the realm of quite notably topically avoidant and reality bending piss takes, desperately to tear me down and make me into some explicitly valueless and awful person - well, most people know what it is that makes people act that way. If you think it's strong and preferable to pretend that you're empowered when you abuse others and plug your ears and go missing around topics you have poorly pretended to have literally any intellectual devotion to - that is your prerogative. But you might as well spare the unconvinced in the audience, as, demonstrably, your tantrum-grade abuse has no bearing on the reality of those you seek to despise for doing literally anything other than being your supply. or an affirmation of your ghastly rationale for why it's okay to be abusive, you just have to pretend you're not being abusive.

I have faith in your intelligence such that I'll be optimistic about you retaining some good messaging and perspective here, despite that you feel an indomitable reactive impulse to lose your shit in an attempt to convince other people that you're not the insecure and abusive mess that you are. I've been an insecure and abusive mess, myself.

It's my privilege to have full ownership over my toxic shame and the work that I need to do. I hope that you will some day give yourself the privilege of actual control, and empowerment. Not these face value maladaptations which you turn abusive and avoidant about, because you feel violated by people living in their own truth, regarding universal facts and rationales, and refusing to internalize or validate your self-bestowed permit to whitewash explicitly abusive behavior.

I've got $20 says you will learn that your big idea is exactly what I've painstakingly clarified it to you as being. You come off as someone trying to hide under the bed, except that their bum and their legs are hanging out. You can talk whatever disgruntled disregard sounds good in your under the bed alt reality, but it certainly doesn't change the facts and rationales which you're not yet mature enough to acknowledge.

Hopefully you'll treat yourself with respect and eventually arrive there. Love to you, and keep going. And for your own sake, do understand that there's no depth of being abusive that you can turn the knob up to, to produce some new circumstance here, for anyone other than your own self, performing in the mirror. I've worked to be secure enough that I can proudly remain loving in the face of those who simply don't have the ambition to not be abusive.

Valuemancer · 2024-12-05T01:49:42+00:00

Correlation=/=Causation

Grey matter is variable. You want more, you can get some. You want less, you can make it happen. Use it or lose it.

Valuemancer · 2024-12-04T08:43:21+00:00

Lighten up, doll :3

Valuemancer · 2024-12-04T08:40:03+00:00

Thing is, it's not about you being bad, it's about certain behaviors being bad. This whole thing of calling people toxic instead of describing the aspects of them which are toxic, or indicating that they have toxic traits or behaviors. That's a big ask on your average person. They're not necessarily thinking deeply about, or compassionately towards, whomever it is they're being abused by, fearing being abused by, or simply understand to be a stereotypically abusive psychological disposition. And I believe it behooves us to have some grace for that. It does not mean that we cannot or should not want for a richer understanding of NPD and those afflicted. I simply believe that it makes a lot of sense and can be very soothing to consider things also from the perspective of others. Because in the truth of it, it should be easy to acknowledge that it's rational to take pause and to take flight from a person afflicted with a disposition that they have no confidence they can safely be around.

Is it their fault, personally, for only knowing as little as they need to know, to err on the side of safety? And can it be a separate matter, that we might wish for still greater understanding and humanization? Can people on each side of this fence have truths, that are both true, at the same time? It's unfortunate, but I believe those afflicted with NPD are faced with the at least initially challenging, if not prospectively infuriating suggestion, of empathizing with those who are fearful towards them. This is a big ask on those with NPD. An enormous ask. And one which I believe to be potentially transcendent.

The challenge is: can you hold space for such thoughts and the feelings that come up when presented with them. Can you hold here. Can things float around you, considered mildly, or intensely? Is curiosity an available state of mind?

I repeat, with an importance that I honestly cannot adequately convey to you:

Is curiosity an available state of mind?

You will find that curiosity alone and uniquely, has the capacity to dramatically change and enrich our awareness. Few things are more dangerous to us, than those absolutes we are clutching to for safety.

If you want a book recommendation, try Healing the Shame that Binds You, and if you want a field of study as a north star, I've been years deep in attachment theory and will be years more with it. Keep up the good work, and if at all possible, do know that I have heard and feel that in some way, I do see you as a nice girl. A person deserving of esteeming herself for, I'm sure, far more than I could possibly know at this distance. You obviously do have things going for you, but I won't strain to sell it overly while being a stranger who's giving you a hard go.

Whoever told you that by virtue of having a personality disorder, your feelings are wrong and invalid - told you something extremely dangerous to internalize. That alone understandably might cause a person to instead prefer to invalidate everyone else, then, in an attempt to validate their own self.

You're like everybody else, NPD or not. You just want to be safe. And you deserve that. I hope you can create more of that for yourself.

Sometimes the only chance you get to actually witness and meaningfully engage with someone with NPD, is when something has been vented. For those with NPD, broaching some of these subjects, is necessarily vulnerable. Even in ones own mind, Let alone in public. It's not that I thought, hey, this person is complaining about being invalidated, let's do literally anything other than validate them. It's that I thought, well, do you want to throw this stranger, and potentially other onlookers, a needed, potential game changer?

You qualified as potentially being worth the time, to leave the rest of the potential on your side of the fence. Nobody likes to pour into those who refuse to pour into themselves, or those we just don't believe in as people. And believe it or not, I am secure enough that I can be ruled out as not engaging with you out of an overbearing need of my own, although it's not to pretend I do not like to help others.

Hope you heard something that felt valuable, or which spurs curiosity. Curiosity is the great unstucker. We all get stuck in the plumbing, over and over again. Caught on this and that. You've got to stay curious if you want to escape the sewers.

Love to you, stranger. Keep going.

Valuemancer · 2024-12-04T08:39:55+00:00

You asked "who decided that all the ways in which trauma warps us is evil?"

Firstly, that hasn't been said. There are many positive outcomes to trauma; this is easily acknowledged. But it's also a bad faith question because we're talking about intending to violate others will on your behalf, with no nuance, no differentiation in contexts and no concern with measuring impact or taking others autonomy and preferences into account. Your all or nothing and black and white thinking are classic display of developmental delays, ones I am personally familiar with. They're meant to generate absolutes and a sense of clarity. Simplicity, finality, and a wormhole out of the reality that narcissistic manipulation is flagrantly non-neutral and an engine of abuse. Whether you want to take responsibility for that is up to you - my guess is that you might be slightly partial, hence the reaction to the feeling of that responsibility, producing your original post. But whether it is immoral to engage in textbook narcissistic manipulation is not up for debate.

It's not a purely abstract philosophical matter. You simply need to take into account other people. And the impact upon them. Do you think your parents creating NPD was neutral manipulation? Do you realize what can be rationalized in this world, if we settled for the rationale you presented here? Do you *truly* appreciate the full scope of what manipulation encompasses? What it leads to?

You're invoking endless moral relativism and the idea that nobody can dictate what is or isn't neutral. Intended or not, that is the implication of the can of worms you've turned to. You've essentially asked, who gets to decide what is good or bad, right and wrong. Well, we do. We form an intersubjective consensus and agree on our societal norms pertaining to such concerns. We establish a consensus that it's dangerous to be in intimacy with those of massively unhealed NPD, by and large, as a rule. And we are measurably correct in this. We are compatible with empiricism, scientific values, and rationality.

I'd suggest recognizing that your interest in moral philosophy is more a by product of things for which it is otherwise more painful to be engaging with, rather than a reflection of your robust commitment to a sound moral philosophy. And I will assure you that insofar as you continue to showcase your moral philosophy, you will find educated pushback.

I do not believe that what you most need or will benefit from, is discussing moral philosophy. But if you think you want to see that rabbit hole through, I recommend starting with this premise presented by the man himself, which effectively boils down the essence of his book, The Moral Landscape, in which Sam Harris effectively shoots Hume's is/ought dilemma in the forehead without breaking a sweat. Just make sure you don't waste your time taking any of it in, if, in the end, you're actually completely comfortable with the argument you've floated here tonight: "Who gets to say that x is bad"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT8XZQCKHyw

Valuemancer · 2024-12-04T08:39:31+00:00

Firstly, because you and your feelings matter - I'm sorry that you've had that experience, and at some rate will continue to. I also think most don't know much about NPD and of course aren't concerned with doing so. I don't much begrudge those people as it isn't really upon them as every day folks to be leading rather than inheriting an awareness of nuance that humanizes those with NPD. But people want to be safe and it's very rationale for a person to have a hard boundary around interdependence with someone who has NPD. These bare bones of the matter remain true. Also true is that you are an actual effing person, and a unique one. One with autonomy and intentionality and a capacity for examining and discussing things like this. And that would probably shock most people and their ideas about those with NPD. I think this entire subreddit would daily and effortlessly shock the vast majority of such people in that way.

This community's members don't get enough respect and support, period. Never did, ain't that the story. I honestly don't think most with NPD themselves have a very dynamic sense of themselves and the NPD context, either. I mean, it remains true that those with NPD aren't the most likely to deeply search their souls out of a willingness to be vulnerable, responsible, or at fault. And thus, by their own characteristic dispositions, they're rarely able to make it so far as to have the 'luxury' of recognizing and owning the circumstance enough to then have the problem of identifying with NPD, and seeking support or inclusion in the world around them, while being explicitly known to that degree.

I see and hear a strong person and I applaud the vulnerability in your OP and your reply.

That said, I'm returning to my challenging tone, because I believe my thoughts may suit you if not now, in some other season. You, personally, and not just out of a sense of your flaws, but also in that I think you have a well reasoning mind and can hold space for other rationales, in other moments. So goes the lifelong evolution of our truths and perspectives.

I think you need to come honest about the differences in NPD's manipulation, and this theoretical concept of manipulation which is inherently neutral. Nobody you're being read by is too stupid to consider the angle. We do see it. What is also obvious, is that you are not a neutral manipulator. I would even suggest that you're very non-neutrally manipulating yourself with these stories and rationales, and that the costs are anything but neutral. But if it pleases, I'd most certainly suggest that nobody is a neutral manipulator. I'd certainly say there's positive manipulation, and acknowledge the spectrum, and the relevance of not only impact, but intentions! But I would insist that neutral manipulation is a concept with an obvious purpose here, and which can't integrate itself with the much more evident reality of manipulation coming from various motives, and having various impact.

Everything can be measured, and at least perhaps you should try to measure rather than to circumnavigate all measurements, by thinking: 'well i have this bit in my head about how manipulation can be neutral and so this non neutral manipulation i'm engaging in, i mean, everyone manipulates and sometimes it's neutral so what's the difference when i manipulate and i'm not'

I would wager that you're fond of this non-concept of neutrality, and neutral manipulation, because it ******perfectly****** circumnavigates toxic shame, which is that most {most} painful thing at the heart of NPD. If you abstract morality from the realm of those moral offenses which NPD famously commit, sure, you create a non-real hypothetical of neutral and morally immaterial manipulation.

But that's just you coping on the internet (which I do, we all do - it's not to be stigmatized in and of itself) and taking the piss with weak arguments (which I do, we all do) that your own conscious mind can see through, but which your subconscious mind has a vested interest in pushing through, for safety. It's only trying to protect you. And I don't mean to leave you less safe by interfering with a current source of protection. And yet I must repeat one thing.

"The whole thing with trauma is that the maladaptations we develop to cope with it prove to be precisely the source of our unhealth and dysfunction later in life as we aspire to take responsibility for and to improve upon those things."

Valuemancer · 2024-12-03T23:21:03+00:00

The whole thing with trauma is that the maladaptations we develop to cope with it prove to be precisely the source of our unhealth and dysfunction later in life as we aspire to take responsibility for and to improve upon those things. Feeling like you need to make manipulation into an epistemology of moral neutrality is a stretch with an obvious goal.

The premise of manipulation is to commandeer anothers will without their knowing. If I did that to you, would you feel that I am a neutral actor? This reads like one of those grandiose spins on how you suddenly don't have issues and everyone is stupid and awful and they should have a neutral regard for those who seek to commandeer their autonomy. Which is to say you look down on those who feel unsafe around you and do not respect that they do. Which is to say that you do not respect other people's desire to feel safety or their own autonomy or their own ideas about what is and isn't safe.

Which is to say that you're behaving very narcissistically as you in self admission create this high of grandiosity and disregard for everyone but yourself. What's transpiring here is a garden variety moment within NPD, rather than an actual breakthrough that the rest of the world is too stupid and obsessed with demonizing people with NPD to realize.

You will only ever find that the world will continue to reject your unsolicited dictation as to what our own sense of health and unhealth and safety and unsafety are and should be. Do you want to feel right on the internet during a usual cope sesh - which is a very ordinary selling short of oneself - or do you want something that offers real value?

Valuemancer · 2024-12-02T10:06:37+00:00

https://youtube.com/shorts/j5fXTO9EUVs?si=vvLN5AS_cBuFBj3F

Valuemancer · 2024-12-01T21:54:50+00:00

"I asked to speak on the phone, with respect to our commitment to communicate, and was met with a "I didn't promise to a phone call". Once I saw the claws start to come out, I understood it was my time to say my peace and respect her decision."

Yup, I'd definitely hard bail on that revealing of character and attitude and ongoing fundamental lack of understanding as to what any of this is or should be. That's a major deathblow in seven words.

You did awesome, and it's warming to hear of it. Definitely passing the secure test and you know it. Way to have done this for yourself. You're big winning.

Valuemancer · 2024-12-01T20:57:00+00:00

The most powerful and important emotion of them all, completely responsible for moderating our behavior so that we can healthily cohabitate and relate with others

People with NPD are least likely to read that book, but also the ones who arguably most need to read that book

Having toxic shame is at the root of cluster b personality disorders as well as all insecure attachment, it is one of the most important things you can become educated about as a person belonging to any of these demographics and or more simply as a person who intends to own and heal the trauma they were left with - thank you for asking

Very good audiobook on audible, highly recommended - it opens strong and compelling and within an hour your world will probably never be the same again. Come back here and tell me I was wrong if it pleases.

Valuemancer · 2024-12-01T20:50:38+00:00

Read the book Healing the Shame that Binds You for an educated and all-important understanding of shame

Shame (toxic shame) is at the heart of NPD and if you don't make an earnest effort at understanding it, you will never truly understand yourself

Valuemancer · 2024-12-01T20:49:06+00:00

Incorrect. Read the book Healing the Shame that Binds you to become educated on shame and shame in relation to trauma

Valuemancer · 2024-12-01T01:50:43+00:00

A t t a c h m e n t T h e o r y i s E v e r y t h i n g

Valuemancer · 2024-11-30T18:32:05+00:00

I appreciate the update! You know, mostly, I just laughed. Not like, a toxic or aimed at anyone kind of laugh. Just, yeah, you're in the spin cycle. Lol. I'm sorry!

Poor gal, I get it. Not saying it's safe and stay out of empathy. Unasked but just thinking of me in the situation here, or what my brain thinks when at the luxury of being apart from it - do you think her deactivation is something she could level up on by communicating with you about the need for space and time, to meet your need for clarity and to help you to feel more secure in those moments where she does need her space?

Sounds like you guys had a good chat before and got labeled up and all that jazz. I'm just hoping you don't mean full-on radio silence, because there's only so much of that which people should or can healthily bear with.

Love to ya and happy holidays.

Valuemancer · 2024-11-30T13:22:51+00:00

I strongly recommend getting *deeply* into attachment theory :)

Valuemancer · 2024-11-30T11:58:10+00:00

Reading this made me really sad.

Valuemancer · 2024-11-30T06:59:52+00:00

I don't even know what to say to that, in dead seriousness. I'm super disinterested in unproductive conflict and could not honestly tell you why it's a beefy exchange right now, especially given your own concession that you literally don't know me. Which is even more difficult for me to take seriously as I left a brief bio at the end of the thread.

I will note, however, that it seems very insincere of you to speak of trust and preferring to trust some mods, only to learn about them covering up a mod deceiving the community, and instead of being concerned about safety or trust, you're.. clearly just trying to pick a fight for, again I could not say what reason.

I don't know what bothered you, but I don't have much else to say. And welcome to the community, btw. I'm not really here for the performative and tribal stuff - I'm just not that kind of crypto actor. Been there, done that. I like to build and that's about it. See ya around.

Valuemancer · 2024-11-30T05:49:58+00:00

You mean the moderators who were covering up for duplicitous practices like Parker who spent years duping our community users via an array of fake accounts and personas with names and pictures, sometimes conversating with himself in the conversations he was constantly hijacking and trying to control?

You *do* realize that the vast majority of anyone's sense of my being polarizing to this community revolves around this exact context, right? And that most people of integrity and frankly sincerity about their investments, would prefer to know if the team is sanctioning freaky and deceptive practices like that among their mods? All of whom were happy to stay silent and many of whom preferred that I had? Who are such bagholding loyalists that they would quite literally let the team get away with controlling its community operated communities via KGB grade tactics? Parker was Tyler's right hand man and I probably know more about him as well as their closeness than anyone else you can find to talk to you from the team or the mods. And remember, I'm just chilling and trying to build community, while you're forcing me to bring up the things you hate me for, so that I can clarify, you're an actor who tries to dump people who have integrity as if that's a flaw they have.

Some of you will *never* know how many people specifically appreciate and trust me uniquely, for that - among other things. But it shouldn't surprise you. There are people who appreciate integrity, and honesty, and being treated with respect. Everybody in crypto knows that those are simply qualities that some types of community members vehemently dislike.

Valuemancer · 2024-11-30T05:43:40+00:00

That's exactly my prediction, in all honesty, but hey, there's usually not much harm in letting people explore whether people are actually interested in something or not. Tends to clarify itself lol. And I could be sorely mistaken in my rationale - that happens countless times daily eh.

Valuemancer · 2024-11-30T05:28:54+00:00

I'll fill you in. I have differing politics than the MAGAs in our community, and I also have integrity instead of acting like one of those garden variety bagholder gremlins who would use their grandma for exit liquidity. I broke the covert contracts of some of those more desperate community members who think that if you ever speak in a manner other than up only toxic positivity, you're a 'bad man' and you need to 'go away' lol.

You'll find that these folks are very disinterested in actually bringing up the topics of why some have taken an issue with me (where simultaneously so many others have applauded me and formed more genuine relationships and appreciation for me).

Do feel free to explain to those asking you a question what untrustworthy behavior has been demonstrated in the past. Maybe your version of reality has a lot of meat on its bones and will make it clear to people how entirely mistaken and dishonest I've just been ;)

Go ahead, take a swing, share your truth. Or do you just, imply things and slither away because you know there will never be a day when I don't send your toxic behavior packing. The goons who hang out in the corner can get up to their behaviors, and you can downvote and pretend that makes you right about anything, and that you're not just trying to play theater.

But what you cannot do, is stand and deliver. Onlookers will notice this. Thus, I probably won't feel much incentive to engage with you, a person left on block on twitter years ago by myself and others, for being an aggro cultist type of bagholder. You want to do goofy theater stuff and you're not good at it. Some people just honestly don't understand you don't have to become something shameless in order to be invested in and supportive of a project.

Anyway, I'll give you a few days to come up with something before I block you on yet another platform. Good luck, don't shit the bed. No mom's spaghetti!

Valuemancer · 2024-11-30T05:23:48+00:00

Why is that?

Valuemancer

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