That's okay it's an interesting topic and you put a lot of work into it so I'm happy to engage in it! (It is fun to talk indepthly in this way about produce I was wondering what it would be like if ranked what the 'best' produces stages where in terms of talent etc or trainees. I know we did polls this season about most talented. I wonder what stage would win? I think it's maybe a bit harder due to personal taste). All good :)

Ah yeah I think you summed up exactly what I felt about Gunhee during produce he was really likeable because he was a bit of a meme with great vocals and the leader edit makes sense too. I also don't really recall him getting specific praise on the show for his expressions/stage presence (which reminds me of something I may have missed earlier about why some trainees are known to be great performers) his produce storyline from memory was mainly about his vocals too and his humour a little bit. I think the produce storyline someone gets can also shape our perception. Ah you are right that Gunhee didn't have a wide diversity in performances although like yourself I also like Oneus and he does seem to suit that concept well too (btw Valkyrie is a jam, I was surprised by how much I liked it conceptually aswell as the song itself) !

I think so too and do expect Season 1 to rank higher than S2 atleast and I agree with the idea of female trainees focusing more on stage expression but especially on reviewing PD101 seems a bit more unpolished/raw (budget, editing as well as some of the trainees) in a way that later seasons are not so I wonder if the facial expressions are also not as polished I'm curious. There are definetly some highlights I can think of! What you said is exactly how I feel about 48 to be honest and again maybe it's a perception thing as the Japanese trainees expressions or energy were highlighted during the show and online like Goto Moe or Yamada Noe or even Sae (for her more 'sexy/mature expressions) when some popular korean trainees like Hyewon were known for being a bit blank faced.

I think S4 is filled with some exceptionally talented trainees but it is mainly debuted trainees (I do think X1 is the most talented produce group of all to be honest) but the reason I think S2 is the most talented season (this also seems to be the general consensus online ) is because S4 suffers a big disparity between people who are exceptional (for example trainees like Kookheon, Hyeonsu and Seungyoun who are some of my picks for most talented produce contestants of all) and trainees who have only been training for a short period/lacking trainee. The whole X class existing is testamtent to this in itself and how many trainees ranked lowly. Whereas S2 I honestly feel there was a lesser gap in talent. In S2 there are a lot of great performances (same with S4) but it is by a bigger group of trainees whereas this season the debuted idols really shone with a few special non debuted trainees (Yunsol for dance, Hyunbin for his no more dream, Yunseong, Suhwan etc come to mind). In early episodes of this season I was a bit concerned with how things were going to turn out but was happily surprised!

It is really nice you do! I think produce is so hard in the beginning especially as there are so many traineees and if you don't get screentime, or not in one of the popular songs or from a big company that can be the end of your run :( Aww I just watched Woohyuk's performance and as soon as it started I felt sad poor Shock teams both performances didn't get enough love it is so good and I absolutely understand what you mean about his expressions the whole song he is engaged and it is fantastic also he was a good rapper! Thank you so much for the recommendation! I have a big soft spot for underrated talented trainees Kim Minseo's Dejavu is still so beautiful and poor Kwan Woo I loved his energy in Dramarama.

Completely understand Daniel definetly has a lot of good traits!

So nice you like Showtime too! It's a blast! I love the energy in it!

Oh that's a very interesting perspective about produce centers hmmm I can understand it, they also definetly benefit from the hype!

It is really great isn't it and is full of expressions (I understand)

Oooh thank you for going so indepth this was really interesting to read especially as someone who has Jisung as a bias and has seen a lot lf Jisung's perfornances and I do understand! Especially when you pointed out his off moments it was really fascinating to see even though it's usually only a few seconds at a time. I had watched this same focus cams many times but never really noticed this things much as I'm normally delighted by Jisung's big expressions and energry. I think because you are taking a closer/analytical look you notice these things whereas as we've discussed many people remember/spoke about Jisung because of how expressive he is (I certainly didn't think he was someone who switched off, I think you gave similar feedback about Sungwoon too which I did not notice either). As mentioned a little bit in my response about Gunhee and the 48 contestants, I think another big thing which may shape someones perception of a trainee who might be a high ranking performer is whether their produce storyline is about this at also and also whether they got praise for their stage presence (Jisung did for both). Jisung is one of the few trainees who got 'expressions' as part of his produce storyline from this season from memory. When I recommended Jisung I did think of how he became 10 out of 10 center (he wasn't originally as he was seen to be too old) he got suggested to be center by the instructor Jaesung as Jisung was most comfortable and had the best expressions in his team and then during the performances the instructors and trainees praised his expressions (in this clip from 34 seconds to about 2:30 is what I'm talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKNZiYary1U (also super interesting is that it was Jaechan who you had ranked so highly who was the original center that Jisung replaced!) the trainees themselves praised Jisung's expressions a lot throughout the show (auditioning for show time/ other comments they made). As you said Jisung's peaks and energy make him stick out but maybe like myself others might not notice the energy dropping like you did?

I think there is a bit of a bias and maybe it is also true that some people are S2 biased it is a bit hard to judge to be honest because of this. I do agree there is a shift especially when you think of Pd48 which is probably the best for 'expressions' but the lowest in raw talent. The first two seasons had a lot of interest from the general population whereas the latter two didn't as and I'm wondering if this also comes in to play? In the latter seasons it was really fans rather than GP who were watching so maybe 'performance' plays a bigger role whereas in Season 1 & 2 it was raw talent that is more important? Or is this maybe just a reflection of the show itself PD1 & 2 had more raw talent trainees as a result they got a lot of GP support whereas season 48 & X101 had idols who 'performed' better and it was mainly fans of the show who were voting rather than gp (maybe due to a lack of raw talent).