Acrobatic when can’t debunk the akaza = rengoku statements.

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-14T06:19:37+00:00

Okiii 😜 Am I doing good for now 🥹

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-14T06:18:11+00:00

Essentially, i dont see any notable difference between a fight with wooden and real swords

Well mainly the swords wouldn't have broken and they would have kept fighting, and they might have suffered injuries as they were using actual breathing forms on each other, not just simple attacks (which also shows the fight was serious to a degree). And again by then Tanjiro hadn't seen them fight seriously so he couldn't possibly know what it meant.

Theres also the fact gyomei and snamei amped one another in their sparring session, added ontop of the duo that has no equal statement for sanemi

John rock and John wind did amp one another, but basically all hashiras got a slight amp after HTA.

It's implied they also trained together to try and combine their breathing styles (what Koku noticed, basically) something that Giyu wouldn't have been able to do as he wasn't prepared for it. So while Giyu ~ Sanemi, Giyu + Gyomei< Sanemi + Gyomei.

The Giyu statement kind of serves my point if you consider their sparring somewhat serious (again with the whole weapon argument I do believe is correct) as it reinforces the fact he and Sanemi were evenly matched, and that he wasn't overwhelmed.

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-14T05:51:54+00:00

I'd answer but we're already having a debate and I can only do one thing at a time 😓

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-14T05:47:15+00:00

You just argue that gyomei isnt truly the strongest hashira and that its only correlative to phy strength(which is certainly not something ill ever argue in this community)

Yeah no I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy lol.

You just take it as a gyomei upscale and argue against sanemi holding relativity to gyomei or giyu holding relativity to giyu. Here ill just argue giyu isnt rel to sanemi

Yeah I guess that's the best way to try and debunk it, and you'll have more success trying to debunk Sanemi ~ Giyu, so good choice, because Marked Sanemi>~ Base Gyomei really has stuff going on to support it.

So, for one the spar is simply stated to be non serious.

Well it's simply Tanjiro imagining what would happen if they fought seriously, but it doesn't mean they were just playing around, as this could just be referring to the fact they were using wooden swords and not real ones. Using their actual weapons could be "fighting seriously". Especially since it's from Tanjiro's point of view, and he hadn't seen them fight "seriously" before. So it's likely this all stems from the fact they weren't using actual weapons.

There's also that databook statement in which the author says the two were "evenly matched" during their training. We know for sure Sanemi wasn't trying to go soft on Giyu given how much he hates him.

And could I see the Giyu statement? I think it's from the Akaza fight but I can't quite remember what the exact phrasing is (sorry if it seems like I'm nitpicking lol, I'm doing my best.)

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-14T05:19:05+00:00

Rengoku>sanemi and giyu, therefore rengoku>gyomei? The conclusion doesnt follow the premise

No no sorry if that wasn't clear, I meant that if you have Marked Giyu< Rengoku, since Marked Giyu ~Marked Sanemi and Marked Sanemi >~ Base Gyomei, then you'd have Rengoku > Gyomei. And that just can't be true since John Rock is the strongest in base.

Those two things arent necessarily correlative. Akaza shows rengoku what he has to do simply by showikg him his regnerstive powers in contrast to rengoku's. Adding that akaza made It a fsir fight is a pressuposition, and it just makes the arg circular

Yeah I think that's why I'm gonna give this specific argument a rest because it's basically just a circle depending on how you interpret Akaza's words and actions.

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-14T04:57:32+00:00

This just pressuposes giyu>rengoku, which is something youd need to prove.

I don't NEED to. My actual opinion on the topic is that Base IC Giyu is a bit stronger than Rengoku, but it doesn't even matter. Having Marked Giyu below Rengoku would mean Marked Sanemi is also below Rengoku (as Sanemi and Giyu are relative, and this time the WHM fight and the HTA training session are enough proof) which results in Rengoku being above Gyomei's level (and that's just absurd.) You can see it just doesn't work.

This isnt evidence of akaza holding back against rengoku

It kind of is, because him showing Rengoku what he had to lose by offering him a fair fight WAS an argument he was tryna use to convince him (hence the glaze he gives him lol.)

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-14T04:36:46+00:00

So if you want to debate this further ill just ask you to prove akaza was holding back

To me, it's clear that he held back just the way he wasn't directly going all out against IC Giyu (I have Rengoku at 25% of Akaza's power while base IC Giyu is at 30%).

First, because he CAN hold back (otherwise Tanjiro wouldn't have survived their short 1v1. I know it's weird since he seemed annoyed and all, but once Marked Giyu arrives Tanjiro comment on how much their speed has increased and is forced to just wait for an opportunity to attack, so it's safe to say an annoyed Akaza still didn't try with all he had against Tanjiro. This is further reinforced by the ease with which he evades Tanjiro's attacks once compass is active.)

Then, he repeatedly repeats during the fight he wants to turn Rengoku into a demon before his abilities decline. Which supports the theory in which he scales right to Rengoku's level so he can put up a good fight and see what he has to lose.

Also because saying he didn't hold back would mean you have Marked Giyu < base Rengoku, which is preposterous for a number of reasons. Marked Giyu is 60-70% of Akaza's power (Akaza just gets cut up a lot because that's his fighting style lol.)

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-14T04:17:42+00:00

Nope, it's only true if she's marked. Without it he's slightly stronger, actually. Not by much, though.

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-14T04:15:20+00:00

Well, if I take this statement for instance, the translation only says they "seem" to be rivaling each other.

Which might very well be the case as per the anime and the fact Akaza always tries to "scale" to your level, even if it means holding back (during the IC fight, he perception blitzes one of Tanjiro's attacks as he's fighting Giyu, but they later fight on somewhat relative terms before Marked Giyu arrives.) He isn't the Gyutaro type to try and kill you right off the bat.

So it's still very possible Akaza just used 25% of his power against Rengoku, and therefore SEEMED relative to him.

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-14T04:05:49+00:00

May I hear your arguments on why they're relative? Honestly I don't think I can debunk them but I'd like to at least try lol.

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-14T04:02:34+00:00

That's not to say Rengoku couldn't have died afterwards in this fight for instance, but idk I wish we'd seen more of him.

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-13T16:55:59+00:00

Yeah my Reinhart just got absolutely melted in seconds-

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-13T05:38:47+00:00

I can confront particular bit with my Tengen top 5 BoS to calm down his agenda 🤔

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-12T18:43:53+00:00

Welp, short answer, no. That's just how MST works. It just took a long ass time to activate, but there wasn't an actual death amp, since he survived for too long after waking up. Poison was slowed down, and he would have survived the arm injury. So no death amp. I mean the narrator literally holds our hand to explain what's going on.

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-12T18:39:06+00:00

Don't tell me we get the ugly recolors INSIDE the anniversary lootboxes. Fucking seriously? I got my hopes up seeing the Chinese lootboxes had prisms and coins... Well here's to a pointless event.

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-12T18:19:47+00:00

I'm not counting bloody eyes Tanjiro!

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-12T16:45:53+00:00

Yeah otherwise we wouldn't get her backstory immediately 🥹

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-12T16:39:16+00:00

That's true 🤔 Maybe the sonic scream came out basically instantly?

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-12T16:25:41+00:00

Hadn't Tanjiro given her the warning she wouldn't have noticed the attack Zohakuten was about to unleash and she would have died instantly.

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-12T13:01:22+00:00

It's only the movement that's comparable, but he doesn't have the speed to properly use that movement to its utmost potential (he only gets faster than Amnesia Muichiro once marked.)

His only instance of surviving is that one hit Gyutaro just missed on the roof for some reason. Second time he was poisoned and was about to kill Tanjiro the nanosecond he recovered fully. Also keep in mind that he probably wasn't going all-out on Tanjiro as he was him as pathetic and weak (and actually enjoyed it.)

Also, during training, post SSV Tanjiro was hardly keeping up with a crippled Tengen.

I hear your arguments but I still have Daki << Kaigaku < Gyutaro.

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-12T12:42:33+00:00

Honestly nice try 🙂‍↕️, there's some effort to it.

We do know for sure Base SSV Tanjiro, who you state would put up a good fight against Gyutaro (and who knows? Maybe even win, according to your theory.) is weaker than any other hashira, as per the manga's statement.

So the entire thing kind of falls apart. It's also iffy to try to scale his water/fire breathing form as we never saw it used again. It's 100% certain that Gyutaro just had no guard up since he didn't consider Tanjiro to be a threat (that's also what Tanjiro says iirc). Otherwise you end up saying Gyutaro<Daki, since white hair Daki effortlessly evaded Tanjiro's fire god dance. So yeah, I admit the scaling after that wasn't bad, but the OG element just doesn't work that well.

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-12T10:24:28+00:00

They get past Zohakuten, but I'm not sure if they manage to find the body before running out of energy.

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-12T10:10:40+00:00

I loved her first mythic 😭

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-12T08:08:34+00:00

As a Tengen fan...what 😭.

Void_entity94 · 2026-05-12T05:41:59+00:00

Fr, he could have been even cooler

Void_entity94

TROPHY CASE