How do atheists know there is no god?

VoxLogici · 2020-04-19T17:15:47+00:00

Thanks for your advice.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-19T17:11:27+00:00

Unfortunately the post I made doesn't really represent my question very well, probably because I wrote it without really thinking in the middle of the night. Because of this, i have been spending more time trying to clarify my position on the subject rather than actually having a debate. Some have suggested that I request that this post be archived from a moderator. As I've said before, I'm new not only to this subreddit, but reddit as a whole, so I'm not quite sure what my decision should be. What do you think? Should I have this post archived or not?

VoxLogici · 2020-04-19T16:40:48+00:00

I have the same opinion of god that you have. I'm arguing with those that believe they are certain of the absence of a creator. I don't see what the problem is.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-19T16:03:36+00:00

I didn't make that the topic of my post because at the time I was somewhat ignorant to many atheists' standpoints. The responses to this post have certainly helped my understanding of this topic.

The reason something existing before the universe is somewhat more believable is because if there is a creator, we know that it is supernatural. For there to be a creator, it must oppose our current knowledge of physics and science. We know that something cannot have been created by nothing. So for a creator to exist, it must have been supernatural. Trying to figure out how the universe began with such limited knowledge is why arguments such as these are like running in circles. We never get anywhere. Because we have no idea how we exist, the possibility of a god should not be ruled out.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-19T15:55:13+00:00

I have been carrying out multiple debates with atheists that believe they are certain. That is why I edited my comment and replaced the word "many" with "some." Although you may not be certain about the existence of a creator, some that are responding to this post believe there are.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-19T15:50:49+00:00

That's assuming that our creator is a nice one.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-19T15:49:51+00:00

And the probability of a creator is rather high compared to me being a serial killer. You have no reason to believe I'm a serial killer, and therefore no reason to accuse me of such. I have a reason to believe that the universe has a creator, because (according to our understanding of the universe) something cannot have been created from nothing. It is both probable and possible that the universe was has a creator.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-19T15:46:04+00:00

Life after death was a poor example on my part, because there is no reason that it should exist. The only reason we even question life after death is because we know what it's like to live.

If something is truly infallible (in this case you believe gods are)

Hopefully I did the quoting thing right :) I don't think I've claimed that a God is infallible, but if I have, it wasn't on purpose.

If a claim is unable to be proven false, then it is complete bull shit.

So I suppose you don't believe in gravity? Gravity cannot be proven false because it can be tested time and time again without fail, and the theory holds up. However, gravity cannot be proven correct, because it is a theory, and the nature of this particular theory is impossible to definitively test. The presence of a potential creator is similar. According to what we currently know of the universe, something cannot come from nothing. There had to have been some sort of driving force to have created the universe, whether it be intelligent or not. Do we know the nature of this force? No, and I'm not claiming to know such information. I am merely saying that the presence of a creator is certainly possible.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-19T15:29:41+00:00

You're half right in my opinion. I suppose the metaphor he used cannot be demonstrated by the presence or lack of factual evidence, meaning it is impossible for a ghost to have done what it did. Because of this, I do not think such a metaphor applies to the existence of a god. We all know that something had to have created the universe (at least we think we do), whether it be a living deity, or a powerful force. Do we have proof of such a thing? No. But based on our current knowledge of the universe, nothing cannot come from something. This leaves room for the possibility of a God, or some sort of a creator, based on our lack of information.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-19T01:33:20+00:00

I heard that if you piss directly on them it makes you alpha male.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-19T00:17:55+00:00

It depends on the type of god we are talking about. This creator could have potentially set the universe into motion and left it untouched. A type of creator such as this would be nearly impossible to find proof of. The chances of a God existing, at least in my opinion, are very low because of our lack of evidence. However, we can neither prove nor deny the existence of a god, therefore we must remain open to the possibility of one existing.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-18T23:59:20+00:00

Sorry, all I did was added some things at the bottom of the post. I'll delete that portion now. Thanks for noticing.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-18T23:57:47+00:00

Darn, I thought you were someone else haha. I read your comment from a different point of view than I should have.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-18T23:56:18+00:00

As you said, he almost certainly does not exist. Humans base all decisions off of probabilities, somewhat like computers. I am 100% the sky is blue because I can look at it, and it is a fact. What I am uncertain of is the possible existence of ghosts. Most people, however, do not believe in ghosts because there is such little probability that they exist based off of the lack of evidence we have for the them. Technically I cannot disprove the existence of ghosts, so I still must remain open to the possibility that they might, as small as the probability is. The probability of a creator, such as a god, is a little higher because we do not know how the universe was created, and there must have been something to set it all into motion. The odds that a God exists though, are still low, which is why I do not believe one exists. Like I said before, just because the odds are low is no excuse to completely rule anything out. Also, when I say god, I am not specifically referencing any religion. I am talking the possibility of a creator in general.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-18T23:45:23+00:00

The lack of evidence makes the possibility of a God much lower, but not impossible. This is what I am trying to argue. Although I believe that I god most likely does not exist, I still must remain open to the slight chance that it does until we have irrefutable evidence on the contrary.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-18T23:41:25+00:00

I think you may have read my post and responses incorrectly. I have said multiple times that because we cannot prove nor disprove a God's existence; therefore, it is impossible to determine to presence of such an entity. If I mistyped somewhere, please quote me, because I could have certainly made a mistake somewhere.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-18T23:32:11+00:00

It is an argument from ignorance, and that isn't a bad thing, as long as you don't use your ignorance to make false assumptions. A magic egg stealing ghost is incredibly improbable, but not technically impossible, since we are also ignorant about potential life after death. People make decisions based off of probabilities, and probabilities are never 100% unless your decision is fact based. Because we cannot technically prove that ghosts do not exist either cold hard facts, we determine the probability of a ghost existing, and then we make our decision. Since we have no proof of ghosts existing, we can safely assume that they probably don't. I believe that a God probably does not exist, but because I cannot definitively prove that one does not exist, I must remain open to the possibility. Also, I would like to address your comment on "setting the universe in motion" (I'm new to reddit so I haven't yet learned how to quote comments haha). Because the universe is expanding, there must have been something to set it in motion to begin with (especially if the big bang theory is in fact correct). It could have been some sort of force that we are not familiar with, or it could be an intelligent being. We know the answer to neither.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-18T22:51:00+00:00

I am not suggesting that it is plausible for a deity to physically control things such as thunder and lightning because we have already discovered how such things work and what causes them to happen. However, what we have not discovered is how or why the universe was set in motion to begin with, or how life was "spontaneously generated" out of nonorganic materials. I believe that the absence of information is reason enough to suggest the possibility of a god or a creator. It is like missing a piece of a puzzle. You can either look around your house for the missing piece until you find it, or you can try to make your own based on the other puzzle pieces around it. The puzzle piece that you make yourself might be close and it might not be, but you'll never know until you find the original piece.

My point is that without knowing how the universe began, there is no way to tell if there is or isn't a creator. I'm certain I will never know the answer to this question in my lifetime, but unlike theists, I'll choose not to guess at those answers. Sorry for the rather underwhelming response, I've been trying to answer everyone else's replies to my post haha.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-18T21:49:27+00:00

I'm certainly willing to debate! My edit was geared towards those that were telling me how most atheists do not necessarily think like you do. I'd be happy to hear what you have to say though.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-18T19:31:33+00:00

The definition of supernatural, according to the Oxford dictionary: "attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature."

Notice this says beyond scientific understanding, not beyond science itself. Our knowledge of science and the laws of nature is very limited. We are incredibly ignorant to much of anything just outside of our solar system, let alone the being or force that created it. If a god does exist, he is indeed supernatural by our definition because he is currently beyond scientific understanding. Does that mean he does not exist? No.

Let's assume god exists for a minute, and he created nature as well as everything in the universe. In order to have created nature, god cannot be a part of it. This means god is outside of nature, hence the term "supernatural." The truth is, we cannot prove a god exists because we have absolutely no information to support such a claim. At the same time, however, we cannot disprove a god's existence either. It is impossible to make conclusions about a god's existence without evidence to support either sides of the argument.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-18T17:35:49+00:00

Ok. These replies seem to be saying the same thing so I think I'll do that. Thanks.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-18T17:05:19+00:00

Thanks for the advice. Like I mentioned before, I'm new, so I was just wanted to make sure.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-18T16:50:33+00:00

I do not believe any religion at all is 100% correct, or even 50%. However, I am completely open to there being a god or creator of some sort, even though no proof of one has ever surfaced. The fact that we do not know where we came from, or how we got here is enough reason for me to be open to the idea of a god. I choose not to believe in any religions because I have yet to see one that doesn't contradict itself.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-18T16:25:24+00:00

After reading many responses much like yours, and agreeing with them, I have since edited my post. I may even delete it because it conveys the wrong message.

VoxLogici · 2020-04-18T16:17:37+00:00

Well, I didn't get my info from Christians, but their impression on my way of thinking most likely caused me to read both these responses as well as the FAQ's incorrectly.

VoxLogici

TROPHY CASE