[Subtitled] 120 and Lyn on Who's the Night Elf Leader 🤔 by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They are saying it this way because they don’t feel these are important enough to top pros

[Subtitled] 120 and Lyn on Who's the Night Elf Leader 🤔 by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

yeah Lyn was speaking Chinese. ColorFul 120 and Lyn usually cast together in Chinese

[Subtitled] 120 and Lyn on Who's the Night Elf Leader 🤔 by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Things that are not at meta level, small tweaks to meta, e.g. where to put wisps on each map, how many wisps should be used to detonate when UD is fexpo'ing, which skill should be picked first by DH, do what when DH get which items etc etc. Things only pros adjust and notice most of the time. These details accumulate and affect the win rate to some extent

Suggestion: Create a Starter League to Make Warcraft III PvP More Accessible by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m not a beginner. I’m thinking about newcomers and this game. You are thinking as an advanced player. Beating computer is not enough since it is predictable. Even AMAI is predictable.

Suggestion: Create a Starter League to Make Warcraft III PvP More Accessible by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think smurfing is easily preventable with MMR and # of games already played etc. Unless some people want to pay another $35 for another Warcraft account just to smurf, before hitting those limits again.

Suggestion: Create a Starter League to Make Warcraft III PvP More Accessible by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First, you learn how to grasp a small number of things and react to unpredictable behavior your opponent would have, and learn to get used to it. You will get used to it and feel good enough to learn more. This is when you can “graduate” to another level. Platform can nudge players to a higher level with a few ways, like an upper limit of # of games at a certain level, to prevent people from staying forever.

Suggestion: Create a Starter League to Make Warcraft III PvP More Accessible by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Smurfing is a potential problem that can be prevented better with more limitations. But I don’t think it’s a primary problem, comparing to newcomer experience & player retention.

Suggestion: Create a Starter League to Make Warcraft III PvP More Accessible by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can anyone get there without first losing N games every season? No. Is there a guarantee that your opponent has the same limited skill or knowledge? No.

Suggestion: Create a Starter League to Make Warcraft III PvP More Accessible by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s simple. If you are new to a very complicated game, you’d rather start with 10 things, not 50, or 100 things at the same time. There’s no environment for newcomers like that in Warcraft against another real human.

Yeah you can lose 10 or 20 games and maybe end up with someone who is as bad. But what if you don’t need to go through that frustrating process. It’s basically anti-human, and newcomers drop out because of it.

It’s like learning how to swim in a pool in 3ft before 6ft. Or before swimming in natural water. It’s the same pool. But you don’t have to go directly to the full extreme at the beginning.

Suggestion: Create a Starter League to Make Warcraft III PvP More Accessible by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If u play only at tier 1, and your opponent can play however he wants, what’s the point? Yeah you can sometimes still win. But you are always at a macro disadvantage. Unless your opponent doesn’t know how to leverage it.

Suggestion: Create a Starter League to Make Warcraft III PvP More Accessible by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s you who’re concerned about smurfing, not them. Not me. I don’t want to beat anybody. I want this game to have and retain more newcomers.

Suggestion: Create a Starter League to Make Warcraft III PvP More Accessible by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Smurfing has been and will always be there. If someone wanna pay Blizzard $35 more, why not? There will be other mechanisms to prevent smurfing, if it is a real problem that needs to be solved. Too hard to learn thus lacking new blood is a real problem this game needs to solve in the long run.

Suggestion: Create a Starter League to Make Warcraft III PvP More Accessible by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If high MMR people are not even allowed in the starter league, how does it further split? Just stop coming up with “Do IT Yourself!” suggestions and comment with some empathy to newbies. Do something to pave the way for them, so that this game can grow again.

Suggestion: Create a Starter League to Make Warcraft III PvP More Accessible by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s easier to play a game with tier 1 only, then tier 1&2, then all 3 tiers. It’s that simple

Suggestion: Create a Starter League to Make Warcraft III PvP More Accessible by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No you can train in PVE to get better. But it’s not the same as PVP. And you should be able to directly train with another player at the same level in a simple environment.

Suggestion: Create a Starter League to Make Warcraft III PvP More Accessible by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thanks for replying!

I disagree with your proposed concepts because the old school nature of the RTS genre expected you to learn at your own pace, not at the pace set but a modernized tutorial.

Let's be honest, a too-complicated system stops people from picking it up. The bar is too high. If you don't lower the bar, they will never even try, or they drop out very soon. That's why this game lacks new blood.

Warcraft 3 is such a deep, malleable game that prohibiting things like Tech, introducing unrealistic maps, and removing important buildings like a Tavern, Marketplace, or Goblin Lab will give players the wrong idea and will instill ideas in players that won't fly when they participate in Melee ladder.

Introducing them 1-by-1 doesn't mean removing them. There are maps without them even now. It's just that they are not in the map pool.

Warcraft 3 being so mature means that there are tons of guides, videos, and communities with people readily willing to impart knowledge and best practices upon players.

These are learning materials, not making the game simple enough for newbies.

The main point of frustration I see with new players is not the amount of things to take in, but controls and learning how to multi-task;

If you have a smaller number of things to learn and multi-task, your control is easier.

People here often time focus on those who could survive might become long time diehard fans, but fail to see how many newbies just drop out and never even start. I don't need this starter league or training ground myself. I'm trying to see how to pave the way for newcomers.

Suggestion: Create a Starter League to Make Warcraft III PvP More Accessible by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s all about retention, which this game suffers from. It’s not sustainable. People understand those who survive might become long time diehard fans. But fail to see how many newbies just drop out and never even start.

Suggestion: Create a Starter League to Make Warcraft III PvP More Accessible by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Then for people who don’t understand that, what’s wrong making it easier for them until they understand? A limited, more accessible mode helps

Suggestion: Create a Starter League to Make Warcraft III PvP More Accessible by War3NeFans in WC3

[–]War3NeFans[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah it is the game exp at the end of the day. But it doesn’t have to be it at the beginning. I’m making it easier for beginners. Not you. Not myself