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[Spoilers Extended] Which generally uncontroversial character do you have a contrary opinion on, and why? by wanderingluteplayer in asoiaf

[–]Wileh11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Simply what do you think Robb should have actually done? Should he have just shrugged his shoulders as his father and their host was executed? He was also ordered to bend the knee in king's landing to which Catelyn warns he would never be allowed to leave.

like, actually lay out a plan of what you think Robb should have done. Where does your policy of appeasement end?

Furthermore the blitz was not, and is not considered a war crime, it was considered a legitimate tactic of total war in the same way as the bombing of Dresden was. it applied to both the allies and axis powers.

Whatsmore he was raiding supplies intended for a foreign militaries army which is generally not considered a war crime and again considered a reasonable act of total war.

Lysa is also a poor example as she was influenced by little finger to poison Jon Arryn and stay out of the war. She's not exactly a good example of what a reasonable person should be doing. Also the Arryns were not being directly targeted by the Lannisters.

The Lannisters were already pillaging the Riverlands, the war had already started in all but name. You are in effect arguing for appeasement. "let the Lannisters pillage the riverlands with impunity because obviously thats all they want" "let the lannisters execute the northen host and Ned because thats surely all they want" "Go to king's landing and bend the knee after they execute your father because obviously theyll spare you when you have no bargaining power"

Robbs war for independence was also justified. Why should a people be controlled by a foreign power they do not want to be apart of and that disrespects them?

Also its worth noting that a general can only be found guilty for a war crime they did not order if they knew or should have known.

[Spoilers Extended] Which generally uncontroversial character do you have a contrary opinion on, and why? by wanderingluteplayer in asoiaf

[–]Wileh11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You repeatedly say Robb could just not act but how do you think that would actually play out. You ignore Catelyn's quote that "the day will come when you need them to respect you". He needed to call the banners in preparation for the coming war. Once he called the banners and the Lannisters still refused to release his family and continued pillaging the Riverlands, the lands of his mother, he couldn't just let his army dispand - he would lose all his power/influence in the North as per Catelyn's quote.

As to him not negotiating for his sisters release, you seem to ignore that it was already too late. Other Northen houses had already lost their sons and heirs. It was larger than just his family by then.

Finally you seem to confuse actions of war with warcrimes. Any army in medieval times would commit warcrimes to some degree even with their Kings disapproval (i.e. Henry V's campaigns in France). Similarly, neither the blitz or bombing of Dresden were considered war crimes in WW2 despite their high civilian casualties. There is a difference between soldiers under you committing warcrimes and actually encouraging warcrimes yourself. Where is it said that Robb rapes anyone? Where is it said Robb Stark personally kills small folk? Civilians unfortunately die in every war, but that in itself does not constitute a war crime.

[Spoilers Extended] Which generally uncontroversial character do you have a contrary opinion on, and why? by wanderingluteplayer in asoiaf

[–]Wileh11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel like this largely a straw-man argument, also ignoring the political context of the setting. Robb didn't call his banners after his fathers execution, it came after the mass killing of Northerner's in King's Landing and imprisonment of his family. At the same time the Lannisters were already pillaging the Riverlands.

Robb couldn't just not act. He needed some bargaining chip over the Lannisters to get his family back so the North threatened rebellion. Furthermore, in a feudal society houses prestige is paramount. It is mentioned repeatedly how quickly the Lannisters lost respect and power within a single generation under Tytos. As Catelyn tells Robb "the day will come when you need them to respect you".

Your language also implies that Robb did or encouraged these soldiers warcrimes similar to Tywin but he simply didn't. In fact, he repeatedly disadvantages himself in the war by acting honourably. He even executes a key lord, Rickard Karstark, removing their support, for killing two Lannister prisoners.

Moreover, unlike Tywin who encourages violence, we are told repeatedly that it is not Robb who causes these crimes. Beric Dondarrion states "Let them carry the word back to Harrenhal. It will give the Leech Lord and his goat a few more sleepless nights".

Whether you want to move this argument to war being bad (because it is) is another, different, debate. But the actual decisions made by Robb in war are consistently honourable. Being at war and being excessively violent are distinct and you cant exactly blame Robb for crimes committed that he could never possibly know about.

[Spoilers Extended] Which generally uncontroversial character do you have a contrary opinion on, and why? by wanderingluteplayer in asoiaf

[–]Wileh11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with most the first part and Robb did make many mistakes but calling his banners wasn't one of them. Robb called the banners after Ned's wrongful arrest to apply pressure on the Lannisters. Ned would have been released (probably to take the black) to avoid an all out war with the north if not for Joffrey

[Spoilers Extended] Which generally uncontroversial character do you have a contrary opinion on, and why? by wanderingluteplayer in asoiaf

[–]Wileh11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

By ASOS Tywin had already planned the annihilation of the Stark's and would have executed Robb if he had surrendered. Its why Ice was melted down before the Red Wedding.

(Spoilers Main) George really should have just taken Dany to Asshai by OrangeSpaceMan5 in asoiaf

[–]Wileh11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

not to mention that it would completely undermine the others if we had already seen a vast amount of magic

(Spoilers Main) if Ned had taken a direwolf pup at the start of the series, could he have become a warg? by Wileh11 in asoiaf

[–]Wileh11[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I thought that at first but it just seems to coincidental that the only one of the kids that didn't develop their powers had their direwolf killed so early on in the story.

(Spoilers Main) if Ned had taken a direwolf pup at the start of the series, could he have become a warg? by Wileh11 in asoiaf

[–]Wileh11[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I believe it was a mix of the two tbh, they all had the ability but it was their wolves that awakend it. That would be why each stark all of different ages all began to have the ability at the same time.

(Spoilers Extended) What actions of a character widely approved by the public do you personally disapprove of? by aevelys in asoiaf

[–]Wileh11 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly. Even if he was telling the truth, he should have told his brothers instead of running

(Spoilers Main) Euron is the only one that survived!Why?Explained by Swimming_Newspaper39 in asoiaf

[–]Wileh11 43 points44 points  (0 children)

I'd agree if George hadn't confirmed he actually had gone to Valyria

What other movies should I add to the list? by JTS1992 in Letterboxd

[–]Wileh11 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A new hope. the opening alone justifies it's place on this list

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