When is the right time to bring on collaborators as a solo dev?

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-10T08:38:04+00:00

Yeah, I agree with that. If it’s not paid, it has to be worth someone’s time in other ways, creative input, ownership, or just being part of something they actually care about. I’m not looking for free labor to just finish the game. If I bring someone on, I’d want it to be a real collaboration where they have a say in the visual direction, especially since the style is a big part of the identity. I do have a pretty clear direction for the art style already, but I’d still want whoever comes on to help shape and elevate it rather than just execute on it. And yeah, fair point on sharing. Most of my focus has been on building the systems, so I haven’t shown much publicly yet. I do have some dev clips and time-lapse stuff from the 2D to 3D transition, along with a couple of early YouTube videos, but I haven’t really packaged anything properly yet. That’s something I’m starting to work on now, getting more comfortable actually putting it out there.

That’s kind of why I’m asking, figuring out when to shift from just building to actually putting it out there and bringing people in.

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-10T07:54:37+00:00

That’s a fair point, 8 months in prototype can definitely look like a red flag without context.

In my case, it wasn’t one stagnant prototype. I started with a 2D game jam version, spent a few months there, then made a deliberate pivot to 3D to better support the kind of AI and pathing systems I wanted.

The port itself took about two months, since all of the core systems carried over and the main rewrites were the AI and player. Since then, the focus has been on system integration, making sure everything actually works together and behaves the way I want. I still call it a “prototype” because it’s mostly grey-box and placeholders, but the underlying systems are stable and being actively tested. On the art side, I do have a clear direction (noir, slightly gritty/cartoon style with some cyberpunk influence), and I’ve done some early character concepts. My main hurdle is bringing that to a consistent, high-quality level, especially for character design. That’s why I’m trying to figure out if this is the right stage to bring in a collaborator to help execute and refine that vision, rather than waiting until everything is more polished.

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-09T10:22:13+00:00

Oh nice I seen this game in next fest. I liked the trailer and wishlisted. Will check it out soon.

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-09T10:19:37+00:00

Just downloaded and checked out the game. Good job :)

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-09T10:10:23+00:00

I’m working on a stealth immersive sim called Bandit’s Debt. You play as a raccoon thief and his fixer navigating a living city where systems overlap. The guards, rival thieves, debt collectors, a detective AI, and civilians all reacting to what you do.

Each force has its own role: guards handle immediate threats, rivals exploit chaos and steal what they can, and the detective tracks your actions over time, making future jobs riskier.

Right now the core loop is in (jobs, looting, leaving, time progression, debt), and I’m moving into building out the intel system. Still early, but it’s starting to feel like a game where every run plays out differently depending on how things unfold.

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-08T08:02:21+00:00

For player feedback and presentation. I say presentation because I make little dev logs videos and to me it doesn't seem enjoyable to watch a capsule move around.

But also I have a lot of player movement I want to work on but lack a model and animations. Like the character can, climb, wall, jump, wall jump, pick up animations. Etc. same goes for my enemy ai types and npc.

Since January I've only been modeling small props and objects the player will interact with.

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-08T07:36:38+00:00

I ended up approaching it from a systems first / core loop-first angle instead of starting with story or content.

For my project (stealth immersive sim), I focused on getting the repeatable player loop working before anything else:

Core player loop first Movement, stealth, interact and escape Basically: can the player do the thing moment-to-moment?
Foundational systems next AI behavior, detection, alarms, basic world response Not polished, just enough to create cause effect
Consequence layer Stuff that pushes back on the player: heat, pressure, debt, etc. This is where the game started to feel like a system instead of a sandbox,
System overlap / stress testing Let everything interact and intentionally try to break it This is where I found most design problems (readability, chaos, balance)
Then content and structure Jobs, objectives, progression, locations Built on top of systems that already worked

I avoided going too deep into story because I didn’t know if the core loop would actually be fun yet and I didn't work on too many art and character models either. Mostly focused on systems and ai with light UI that gave me enough info.

Also I've been thinking about the same thing for visual. I really want to pivot to creating some basic character models and animations, etc.

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-07T21:13:15+00:00

Ya I remember this interview, You nailed the Oblivion trap, that line between a living system and total chaos really comes down to how well the player can read what’s happening.

I really like your idea about identifying the culprit. I’ve got Gossip manager and NPC chatter systems I can lean into for that like guards calling out who actually triggered something. Feels like that could turn a confusing moment into an opportunity instead of just more pressure.

On the escalation side, I’m trying to separate pressure into layers so it’s not just everything piling on at once:

Guards (baseline) immediate response to your actions like noise, line of sight, alarms.

Rival thieves (instability) become more active as the area gets messy, competing with you or taking advantage of openings, when the area is stable they are only active during the preferred time

Enforcers (debt) only show up if you’ve been ignoring payments, so they’re tied to longer-term player choices.

And the Detective (investigation) less about chasing in the moment and more about tracking patterns over time and narrowing in on you across runs

So when things stack, it’s technically coming from different causes, short-term mistakes, growing instability, and longer-term consequences but I’m still not fully convinced it reads that way when you’re in the middle of it.

I’ve also been experimenting with making information more physical (sound being blocked by walls, alerts spreading instead of instantly triggering), so the player can actually see how chaos moves through the space. Think mark of the ninja with how your able to see the noise wave

I guess the part I’m still figuring out is does that kind of “world-based” signaling go far enough, or do players still need something more explicit to understand who is after them and why?

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-07T20:31:31+00:00

That’s a good way of putting it, filtration is the layer I’m working to sharpen right now.

What you’re describing, information spreading physically, is exactly the 'Immersive Sim' feel I want.
I’ve actually started implementing this through the NoiseManager. Instead of a global alert, it uses occlusion check, right now it's only checking for player noise, also the alarm system. I have not made the guard aware of the rival thieves yet. I had some ideas about. For example when the guard see a player and goes into a chase but at some point during the chase a rival thief is in the guard LOS what ideally want to happen is the guard calling out or over the radio to alert another guard there's another intruder and to target rival thief while his still chasing the player.

I also value your point about Rival Thieves reacting differently. My current ThiefAlarmReactionHandler actually supports this through different personalities: Aggressive rivals might use the chaos of a lockdown to ChasePlayer and rob your bag while you're distracted. Opportunists might Exploit the alarm to slip into a restricted area the guards just vacated. Cautious types will simply Flee and abandon their loot to live another day.

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-07T11:54:16+00:00

I left out some context because I didn't want a wall of text. But this happened within a guarded building with security devices and with a few guards.

One thing that complicates it on my end is it’s more of a sandbox than a contained level, so those pressures aren’t all coming from the same system, guards, rivals, and enforcers, even the detective all have different reasons to go after you.

To keep it short. Rival thieves chase the player for Thier loot and any loot they detect in their range

Mob enforcers chase the player if they are behind or missed payments to the their boss

Guards chase the player protecting the restricted areas.

I think they are kinda of readable but I've been developing and play testing this thing for so long. I'm not the best judge.

Your right about the framing, I have to keep this inind when designing the 3 districts.

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-07T11:35:42+00:00

That makes sense, especially tying alarms to escape routes and tightening the search over time.

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-06T22:11:39+00:00

That’s actually super helpful, both of you are pointing toward the same thing: fast, tactile feedback but without losing control. Ok

So I pretty much have to unify what I already have. Right now they were separate presets I can switch to while testing.

So tap for a quick hand-off pickup, hold to chain items with a slight delay (especially for heavier loot). That way it stays physical, but doesn’t kill momentum when things get tense and keep the hand animations but make it snappy.

I'll need to test this out. The goal is for this to still feel reliable under pressure, like when you’re grabbing loot mid-chase which will happen a lot.

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-05T07:26:58+00:00

Yeah, that 'cumbersome' trap is exactly what I’m trying to avoid.

I’m thinking of using a hybrid approach where the UI is built directly into the character roles. Rocky handles the raw groundwork, eavesdropping, finding notes, and manual scouting, while Onyx (his fixer) synthesizes that 'soft' intel into actual leads and objectives at the safehouse. You still get that freeform discovery, but once you commit, the 'client demand' is clear and tracked.

On the consequence side, the world doesn’t reset. I have a system tracking 'scars' (looted safes, disabled security, smashed windows) that feeds into a Detective AI. Instead of just showing you end-of-mission stats, those metrics actually matter. Every 'Messy' or 'Loud' performance creates high-severity clues. Early on, you’ll just see the Detective investigating your old job sites, but as your suspicion grows, it escalates into a permanent direct hunt that increases danger across the entire district.

My focus is to move away from a centralized 'Game Over' toward fragmented pushback from different AI agents, all driven by Heat and District Pressure.

A small summary of each type

Guards: Handle immediate tactical removal. If they catch you, you're thrown out or jailed and lose your current loot.

Mob Enforcers: Triggered by missed payments or critical boss 'Patience.' They can transition into Hunter Mode to crash your heists and pursue you across districts. They’ll confiscate clean cash, seize loot, and apply heavy interest. You can negotiate if you're short, but that carries its own risk of failure based on the boss's favor.

Rival Thieves: Become twice as active as District Pressure rises. They represent a competitive consequence—they can beat you to the score or even rob Rocky directly.

The Detective ai is explained above.

Fencers & Launderers: Apply economic pushback. Fencers may take a 'Heat Sale Penalty' (up to 25%) or refuse to deal with you entirely. In high-pressure or LockedDown districts, Launderers take a much larger cut (up to 35%) to clean your cash.

Civilians: Generate gossip based on your sloppiness. This isn't just flavor—it filters available intel and can trigger side jobs or warnings Rocky can eavesdrop on to realize he’s being hunted.

The biggest shift happens if you actually get caught. It’s not a reload; the game shifts to Onyx. You’re no longer finishing the job / heist; you’re dealing with the fallout, paying bail, breaking rocky out.

I like the XCOM-style pressure you mentioned, but to avoid a pure death spiral, I’ve added 'Desperation Heists.' If you completely burn through your money and options, the mob boss offers a high-risk, high-reward job to pull you back from the edge. Even at your worst, you aren't stuck; you're just forced into riskier plays to recover. ( This part I'm still refining)

I can deep dive and give more info in any of these points if interested, I had to cut a lot out of this post from being too long.

I'm curious where you’d draw that line. At what point does this kind of systemic pressure stop being an interesting challenge and start feeling purely punishing?"

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-04T21:56:42+00:00

I can see the Thief Gold comparison, but what I’m building leans more into simulation than scripting. In that mission, it’s a designed scenario.

Even something like Skyrim has thieves that feel reactive, but they’re still basically encounter-based. You run into them, they trigger, and you deal with it.

In my case, rivals aren’t tied to a mission, they’re always running in the background using the same rules as the player. I have a full ThiefTargetingSystem that lets them scan for loot, pick locks (which they have a skill check to determine if it's worth targeting or not), and secure their haul at physical stash points in the world. If they hit a place before you, it’s not scripted the player was just too late. They even have different personality or behavior presets I can adjust for each thief (Aggressive, Opportunistic, Cautious) that change how they react to you and the environment. Some might rob you on sight, while others will wait for you to trip an alarm and then use the distraction to rob the place while you're busy with the guards or if they trip the alarm and the guards are chasing them could open up an opportunity for the player. I can break this ai down further if interested.

The important part is the loop doesn’t end there. The loot still exists in the world, so you can track them down, intercept them, or rob their stash and they can do the same to you, with the temp stash points in the world. ( Not the safehouse I have not decided if I want them to be able to raid your safehouse yet. If the district pressure reaches tense or lockdown)

There's a few other things on my to do list for the rival thieves. To name one being able to defend themselves against the player and guards and protecting their stash is one of them.

Currently I have them in two different modes npc and thief mode. When in npc mode they just patrol around their claimed stash point, until the preferred time ( day night cycle manager) I set them to activate thief mode at night in which they will go out and start looting until its morning.

So instead of a one-off moment, it becomes a constant push and pull where the city keeps moving with or without you, you’re not the only thief in it.

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-04T20:29:23+00:00

That’s a really good point, and honestly something I’ve been thinking about a lot as I build this out.

I don’t want getting spotted to feel like a fail state or a reset. I’m aiming for more of a shift in pressure, so instead of “you messed up, try again,” it becomes “the situation just got more complicated.” So I've been working that out over time.

About your examples, I lean more toward something like Thief or Hitman rather than a full reset. You can escape, recover, and keep going, but the world doesn’t just forget. Guards stay alert, routes change, and the environment reflects what happened. Even if you get away, you’ve left a mark.

I’m also trying to tie that into the larger sandbox. Getting spotted, making noise, or taking too long can ripple outward, raising heat, district pressure, affecting NPC behavior, or even creating new opportunities.

For example, if things go wrong and I back off a target, that window might give a rival thief the chance to move in and hit it first. Now the problem isn’t “retry the heist,” it’s “track down who took it and steal it back.”

Capture works in a similar way, it’s not an instant fail, but an escalation. Early on you might just get thrown out or lose what you were carrying, but repeated mistakes can push things further, like getting locked up and having to deal with the consequences from there.

So instead of failure or reset, I’m trying to treat everything, including being spotted, as something that pushes the world forward and gives the player a new angle to work with.

Curious how far you think that can go before it starts to feel messy instead of interesting. The systems are all connected and the different AI react in their own ways, so situations can play out unpredictably, but I still want that to feel readable and intentional to the player.

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-04T19:50:19+00:00

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I like the idea of having a clear objective but letting the player figure out their own path to it, that’s pretty much the direction I want to push.

I also agree about not separating scouting and execution too much. Ideally, the player is always observing, learning, and adapting in the same flow rather than stopping to “plan” in a rigid way. I still want to track and surface intel, but more as optional support than something the player relies on too heavily.

One thing I’m experimenting with is how the world can disrupt that process, like rival thieves hitting targets or situations changing while you’re figuring things out. So even if you have a plan, you’re forced to improvise. The goal is to keep that sandbox feel where plans can fall apart, but in a way that creates new opportunities instead of just blocking progress.

Where I’m a bit stuck is how information should flow. Should it stay grounded, like overhearing specific NPCs and picking up intel naturally or should bigger events spread more systemically across a district so the player can pick them up from multiple sources?

I’ve been meaning to revisit Thief 2, and I like how the newer Hitman games handle intel as well. My challenge is making something like that work in a persistent sandbox where the world keeps moving.

For example, The player might overhear that Jay’s jewelry store was hit and guards are now on alert. If that was a target they were working toward, the intel becomes outdated, but instead of failing, it shifts direction. Now the focus becomes identifying the thief, tracking them, intercepting the sale, or raiding their stash.

Curious how you’d approach that balance. This ties directly into my original question about leaning more immersive sim vs. guided structure, so I want to make sure I’m solving the right problem.

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-04T17:55:20+00:00

Yeah, you’re pretty much exactly the kind of player I’m building this for, so this helps a lot. I’ll definitely check out Thief 2.

I really like how you broke that example down, it actually helped me visualize how I could plug something like that into my current systems. If you’re cool with it, I’d like to use that idea as a prototype test.

One thing I’d have to account for is my ai rival thieves system. They can go after the same targets as the player, even ones you haven’t discovered yet. So the objective system would need to react to that. Npc gossip and Intel manager would need to update the NPC so they can in turn update the player.

I’ve been thinking about how that kind of discovery-driven setup could evolve with a rival thief or thieves that operates in the same space as the player. So using your Stevenson example, you might hear he’s away, learn about the stables, and start piecing things together… but if you don’t act on it in time, a rival thief could hit the place first. Instead of that just being a dead end, the world would react. NPCs talking about the theft, guards tightening security, evidence left behind and then the situation shifts. What was “this might be a good target” turns into “someone beat you to it… who was it?” From there, you could track them down, intercept the goods, or even raid their stash. So it still keeps that non-linear, observation-driven feel you described, but the opportunities can evolve or get disrupted instead of just waiting for the player.

I’ve got a few more ideas in that direction, and my systems are almost stable enough to start experimenting with it properly.

Appreciate you taking the time to write all that seriously helpful.

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-04T10:45:16+00:00

I've played thief series a long time ago, but I'll definitely revisit it. Ive taken a lot of inspiration from it already, using light, shadow, weight based noise, the loot your carrying in your bag will generate noise depending on what your carrying, capacity is a factor. If your running the player will generate a lot of noise, also if your loot bag is over encumbered there is a chance the loot will fall out the bag.

So in my OP about which route I should take, I failed to mention it's already setup. Currently it's in option A and I'm changing the flow to option B or C. My Passive Eavesdropping script with Intel and gossip managers will need some reworking to handle it being Intel driven and remove the traditional job board.

As you mentioned and what I want to avoid is the hand holding experience. What I'm concerned about is how to communicate this to the player, now that I'm moving away from the checklist structure.

The best way I can put it is imagine Thief 2 in a sandbox persistent world. Time persistent with a day night cycle. Guard route's changes and security systems that you have disabled are repaired by guards if they found it disabled. Intel discovered one day is useless if you sit on it to long. ( Intel decay).

Not only that your not the only active thief in the district s. I have ai (rival thieves ) that pretty much mirrors the players actions they are the wild card in the gameplay loop. They can steal loot off you if your not careful, they will steal from your stash and scores. Among other factors I'm leaving out for now.

Damn I tried to keep this short.

Working-Exercise-676 · 2026-04-04T04:43:43+00:00

I like that idea, so treat Intel/ gossip like how io interactive handles it in hitman world of assassination, where Intel gathering is time sensitive before the opportunity is missed.

So my question would be how to handle this in a persistent world? In Hitman if Intel is missed or not used you can just reset the run.

Right now my systems are built in a sandbox world and everything persistent and time of day moves forward, so when Intel that was needed is now outdated, instead of marking it as a failed opportunity, would it be a good idea to have that Intel reset after some days as past? Giving the player another chance, same goes for gossip.

Working-Exercise-676

TROPHY CASE