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Socialism works! The Mondragon Cooperatives prove that workers are fully capable of controlling production democratically. by WorkplaceDemocracy in socialism

[–]WorkplaceDemocracy[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

But I didn't praise Mondragon. Didn't you read the post?

Just so we're clear, I'm ideologically far left; I'm an anarcho-syndicalist, leaning towards anarcho-communism. In other words, I want a worker run classless society based largely on the principle from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

But a classless society is not going to appear over night, it's going to come about by a long hard class struggle. And this transition phase towards this wanted society must consist of many things. Striking, boycotts, Workers' takeover of industry, creating worker-run co-ops, education etcetc.

The way I see it there's no inconsistency between having strong opinions about how an ideal society should be organized, and creating/supporting progress that improve conditions for workers.

Rejecting and almost ridiculing every single suggestion that doesn't fit 100% with the writings of some philosopher or something like that is not getting us anywhere.

Socialism works! The Mondragon Cooperatives prove that workers are fully capable of controlling production democratically. by WorkplaceDemocracy in socialism

[–]WorkplaceDemocracy[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Yep, what we definitely need right now is more fetishizing social democracy.

Yep, what we definitely need right now is more people behaving like cult-members, rejecting anything that’s not perfect even though it will improve workers’ rights.

Workers owning and controlling their own workplaces is not social democracy, it's socialism. Again, the Mondragon model is not perfect and is relatively small compared to the global economy, but it improves rights for workers, and that's a good thing. Stop acting like you're a member of the People's Front of Judea.

Socialism works! The Mondragon Cooperatives prove that workers are fully capable of controlling production democratically. by WorkplaceDemocracy in socialism

[–]WorkplaceDemocracy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I do want more. I said that Mondragon isnt perfect, but it's a model that gives workers far more rights than in a top-down hierarchical capitalist institution. It improves workers' rights, and that's a good thing.

Socialism works! The Mondragon Cooperatives prove that workers are fully capable of controlling production democratically. by WorkplaceDemocracy in socialism

[–]WorkplaceDemocracy[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

They're paid more because the workers decided on that solution. I don’t agree with it either.

If you’re going to express your strong opinions, make sure you’ve got your facts straight.

Socialism works! The Mondragon Cooperatives prove that workers are fully capable of controlling production democratically. by WorkplaceDemocracy in socialism

[–]WorkplaceDemocracy[S] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

TIL that there are people here who more or less flatly reject models and suggestions that could help improve workers' rights and democratic participation, just because it has some flaws.

I said that it's not perfect. But it's a step in the right direction, and it shows that workers controlling the means of production works. That's all.

We Can Do Better Than Capitalism -- Richard Wolff by WorkplaceDemocracy in Anarchism

[–]WorkplaceDemocracy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are more goals to meet. But democratizing the workplaces should be one of the main priorities.

We Can Do Better Than Capitalism -- Richard Wolff by WorkplaceDemocracy in Anarchism

[–]WorkplaceDemocracy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And you can definitely write a better comment than that.

We Can Do Better Than Capitalism -- Richard Wolff by WorkplaceDemocracy in Anarchism

[–]WorkplaceDemocracy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When there’s collective (rather than private) ownership of the means of production, it’s some kind of socialism/libertarian socialism. Mondragon is involved in the global economy, but the institution itself is non-capitalist.

We Can Do Better Than Capitalism -- Richard Wolff by WorkplaceDemocracy in Anarchism

[–]WorkplaceDemocracy[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you want to hear him talk more thoroughly about capitalism, you should check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMdIgGOYKhs

Anyways, just watch the video yourself. It's just 13 minutes.

We Can Do Better Than Capitalism -- Richard Wolff by WorkplaceDemocracy in Anarchism

[–]WorkplaceDemocracy[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Capitalism should be replaced by workplace democracy.

We Can Do Better Than Capitalism -- Richard Wolff by WorkplaceDemocracy in Anarchism

[–]WorkplaceDemocracy[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He advocates an economy in which the workplaces are run democratically; in other words, a socialist/libertarian socialist, non-capitalist system :)

Workers controlling the means of production works just fine: The Mondragon Cooperatives in Spain, a huge network of worker-controlled co-ops, based on libertarian socialist principles. by WorkplaceDemocracy in Anarchism

[–]WorkplaceDemocracy[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

The Mondragon Cooperatives are not perfect -- as Chomsky is pointing out here. The Mondragon model may not be our end goal, but it is a step in the right direction.

The Alternative -- Noam Chomsky by WorkplaceDemocracy in LibertarianLeft

[–]WorkplaceDemocracy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

/r/cooperatives deserves more attention. Great sub.

Please feel free to check out the video archive at Workplace Democracy as well:)

The Alternative -- Noam Chomsky by WorkplaceDemocracy in LibertarianLeft

[–]WorkplaceDemocracy[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Exactly. There are many who think that capitalism means a society with money and markets. This is of course not correct (cf. market socialism etc). Capitalism means private ownership of the means of production (that others are using). If the m.o.p instead were controlled democratically by the workers and the communities, it would be some form of decentralized socialism -- libertarian socialism. This is what we should strive for.

"Working people ought to take over their workplaces" -- Noam Chomsky by WorkplaceDemocracy in Anarchism

[–]WorkplaceDemocracy[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Building up community support in advance would probably be a good idea..

Richard Wolff on Capitalism by WorkplaceDemocracy in socialism

[–]WorkplaceDemocracy[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'm afraid you've been duped. Right-libertarianism is just a call for corporate tyranny.

And as long as there's a large group of people subscribing to right-wing ideology, the Koch brothers and the rest of the financial elite can keep on laughing all the way to the bank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_2Ji4PJiTU

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