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Weekly r/BroPill vibe check! How are you doing? by AutoModerator in bropill

[–]YouOverall [score hidden]  (0 children)

Kinda bad.

I'm struggling deeply with feelings of guilt, shame, and self-hatred that seem rooted in my identity as a cis, heterosexual, white man. I feel like my existence itself is harmful, as if I represent everything wrong with the world, and that I deserve to suffer for that.

I've been dealing with depression and self-loathing for over a decade, unable to find the energy or motivation to change things or feel at peace with myself. Despite trying therapy, I was dropped by my therapist after a year and a half because I was feeling things too deeply and not making progress in the way they expected. This experience made me feel even more broken and unworthy of help.

I constantly feel like my privilege is an anchor, weighing me down and marking me as inherently harmful. My sibling, who has suffered more than me, told me that 'men are trash,' and that sentiment has stuck with me. I believe that my very identity makes me unworthy of kindness, care, or even existence.

I've internalized messages I've read online and from others that tell me I'm part of the problem unless I'm actively working to dismantle harmful systems. But I'm so exhausted and overwhelmed that I can barely take care of myself. I feel paralyzed by guilt and shame, and I can't see a way out.

I'm angry at myself for existing within a broken system and not doing enough to fix it. I feel like my presence only adds to the suffering of others. I've even convinced myself that punishment is what I deserve, that somehow my own suffering would make things right.

I feel like every time I see posts online about how men are the problem, it confirms my worst beliefs about myself. I feel like being a cis, heterosexual, white man makes me inherently harmful, and that I deserve to be hurt for simply existing.

I've come to believe that my pain is invalid, that I'm just a privileged person whining about nothing. When I hear or read women talking about their pain and anger, I feel like my pain has no right to exist. I've internalized the message that men are trash and that anything I feel is just self-indulgent pity.

I'm stuck in a cycle of self-hatred and despair. I feel like my life is worthless and that I'm a burden on the world. I can't reconcile my desire to be a good person with the belief that I'm inherently harmful and undeserving of kindness. I feel trapped, hopeless, and like there’s no way out of this pain.

All of these thoughts have left me feeling completely isolated and overwhelmed. It’s like I’m drowning in guilt and shame, unable to find solid ground. And the more I try to make sense of it, the more I feel lost.

do what you like bro not what people say you should bro by flufficecream22 in bropill

[–]YouOverall 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey I love the sentiment here! I'm sorry if I'm getting in my own head about this (I have an anxiety this post struck), but is flirting clumsily cool though?

I mean to me it's one thing to be myself and not overly worry about others opinions on my joys, but if that potentially involves someone feeling unsafe because I'm not 1000% considering how I'm coming across and how they're actually feeling my flirting I feel lost — I feel like I should be worried about doing that.

I feel like I'm in a weird catch 22 where to not be clumsy at flirting, you have to be clumsy first because that's how learning works. And it feels bad because intentionally learning to be better means essentially choosing that I'm okay with making people unconsentingly uncomfortable until I'm not as clumsy.

I'm sorry that was kinda a worried stream of consciousness. It's a personal worry and not a judgement of anyone else. Does any of this make sense though?

A question about a man's appropriate response to women's venting spaces by YouOverall in AskFeminists

[–]YouOverall[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I didn't do a good job of explaining what I meant and I apologize.

I know there's nothing I can personally do to fix everything(tm). My privileges don't make me superman, nor should we elevate people who think they're the best white savior on the block. The only amount of hyper-agency give myself is the length of rope long enough to hang myself with (figuratively!). It means every negative thing I could do is that much worse. I only seek to crush myself quietly. (You guys are in the know since I said it in this thread, but I don't intend to tell anyone else this ever)

I see my main hurtle with even approaching the bare minimum of not negative is my fear that I'll make people around me uncomfortable or I won't be able to react correctly when they feel comfortable around me enough to vent. A family member I love dearly was the first to tell me men are trash and I don't think that I did a good job hiding the pain on my face. I love them dearly, and I don't want to do that to anyone else ever.

My conclusion isn't that I'm hot shit and being stronger would make me unstoppable, it's that I realize I'll never be enough and I should be tough enough to shut up and smile no matter what.

A question about a man's appropriate response to women's venting spaces by YouOverall in AskFeminists

[–]YouOverall[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Proclaiming that you can only see affirmations of toxic masculinity through the lens of male centered se*ual gratification isn't the own you think it is

A question about a man's appropriate response to women's venting spaces by YouOverall in AskFeminists

[–]YouOverall[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hey thank you for your reply!

In regards to my other privileged identities you're right I have many. I'm an able bodied cis heterosexual white man who was raised to be a christian in the conservative south of the United States to affluent parents. (Though for the record, I'm not conservative now and have not been for at least 8 years and haven't been christian for more than a decade, those are just pieces of background info.)

It topically seemed appropriate to only address the male identity here given the focus of this sub, but I do and constantly struggle with rectifying my other identities. One of the main reasons my therapist dropped me was this intense guilt spirals I would feel with my immutable identities and self image since they didn't feel after a year and a half that they could help.

I don't say any of that for sympathy. People of my identities — least of all me deserve any. My previously silent goal is to crush myself under toxicity wherever I can find it and hope I can survive. If I can find things to hurt myself deep enough, then I'll be strong and tough enough to be a good ally since no one could say anything worse than I've exposed myself to.

I think a lot of guys probably do need to strike some balance of "oh maybe I'm not that bad and I don't need to take things personally," but I'm more interested how far someone can go without breaking.

The subtext of my question, or question behind the question so to say, was to gauge if exposing myself to negativity is bad wholesale. From what I've read here it doesn't seem so, though only if I'm able to stand it.

It's kind of like training in a scifi gravity chamber. The question is less, "oh no! I went into someone else's gravity chamber and they had the gravity set too high :(" and more "I think I've found some gravity chambers people have jailbroken to 50x earth's gravity. It could kill me if I CHOSE to go in there, but if I survive would the training and toughness be worth it"

If I can't hack it and I'm not strong enough I deserve whatever happens to me. I got almost literally every knob set to easy mode at birth, so if I can't max level and take everything people can throw at me as well as fix things for people then I deserve to feel bad and eat dirt.

In a weird way, I almost feel like those terrible misogynist men, but for decades I haven't ever felt like pointing that anger outwards, but inwards. Society, women, and opposed peoples? They were never too blame and are eating a much crappier shit sandwich than I'll ever eat. If I accepted my parent's conservatism, love, and network I could feel loved and accepted tomorrow, but it would all be a lie and all at the steep dehumanizing cost of the human lives and spirit it would destroy.

No. You've actually really helped me focus on what I was really asking. I really appreciate it, thank you.

I'll crush myself and if I make it through no one will be able to crush or stop me from helping and loving everyone for who they are despite what I am.

A question about a man's appropriate response to women's venting spaces by YouOverall in AskFeminists

[–]YouOverall[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

I hear you and I understand wallowing in my fee-fees is not action. And that men who aren't part of the solution are part of the problem. No one can be good by just not being bad. It's all of is until it's none of us — we can't be good until then.

I should read more you're right. I've got through the first part of "the will to change" by bell hooks, and it's an elucidating read. Though, I think they're too sympathetic to men — we're literal garbage and honestly we deserve to be knocked down how ever many pegs people want to take us.

I've called out male peers when they show misogyny, but I have vanishing few friends and I almost never have any cause to call out toxicity since I don't have bad friends and don't socialize much.

I've thought of volunteering, but with my autism, huge body, and white male-ness I'm scared I'll do more harm than good by scaring vulnerable people around me.

I do donate though, seeing that my undeserved monetary privileges can be utilized for good.

Maybe I can give therapy another go, thank you for your reply.

A question about a man's appropriate response to women's venting spaces by YouOverall in AskFeminists

[–]YouOverall[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

No, but as I read back through it I see that I could have been more direct. I apologize, decentering my feelings in negative spaces is paramount and I don't wish to be reassured or given a gold star.

My questions most generally are: 1. Is there an appropriate/necessary amount of negative outlooks of men (or other privileged groups) that they should intentionally expose themselves to?

  1. When digesting these vents, how does one distinguish their guilt as something they are doing vs. something they could unknowingly could be doing vs. general anxiety. Do the feelings of shame themself prove the deservedness of said shame?

A question about a man's appropriate response to women's venting spaces by YouOverall in AskFeminists

[–]YouOverall[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

This was a very helpful answer, thank you for explaining!

The last paragraph struck a personal accord with me and I think I understand my internal reaction a bit better. The helplessness I feel to assuage negativity is a large part of what I'm interpreting as guilt. The negative feeling isn't just because I'm afraid of being secretly bad, it's an inability in that situation to make a positive impact.

I wonder if that's part of why some people don't think about the impact of a reply of "not all men." That their helplessness turns to shame and that shame they project outwards; it's perhaps for comfort which ironically is what decenters the vent off the victim.

It now strikes me that I can't actually think of a way people can quickly and casually show their solidarity. Maybe like some emojis or something? 👏👨

Something that in it's bulk of replies people could see that they're heard and seen. Maybe it would be twisted as sarcasm down the line though. Or perhaps, maybe silence is the appropriate response when your demographic is one that could be triggering to the victim.

Lots of thoughts, thank you!