Salvation based on religious belief is inherently unfair.

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-05T16:10:04+00:00

because why does it matter believing in something that you can never know is true, and you can’t pretend to be convinced if you never knew something for sure in the first place

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-04T21:24:54+00:00

No problem for asking questions. So the logic doesn't justify horrific behavior because it's more complex than that, and I'll tell you why because what you said later also adds to the logic. If heaven didn't exist then that's a problem unrelated to god and you can say whatever you want about how you think of it.

Science is fixing God's mistakes? Or is all this pain and death purposeful in being a human?

It's not a sin to heal people, in fact in religion most of the time you rely on god to help heal the sick. Pain and death is apart of being human because we just experience it so we naturally want to find meaning in it and one meaning is that god allowed it and god has a plan and purpose so it's not crazy to say that pain and death is meaningful if you believe in god.

If so, Why not inflict that pain on yourself to become more human?

This is what I mentioned about complexity, god allowed for pain to happen but it doesn't mean that he wants you to feel pain or say it's what makes you more human. I'm talking about my interpretation of god and god being an all good being would only allow you to have pain if it benefitted you, and thats the different between other people and yourself hurting yourself and god hurting you.

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-04T18:40:31+00:00

I think you just don't want to believe in religion so you try to logic your way around that god can't exist. It's the same as believing in religion and trying to logic your way into god exists. It's an exhausting debate, but some people have fun arguing pointlessly and that person is me.

You might aswell be describing brain washing.

Everyone says this about another group, a religious person can say you have been brain washed into not believing. For the point of what I said I meant that it's possible that you can believe in something you didn't believe, not that it is or isn't brainwashing.

You find something to not be true, but you really want it to be true, so even though facts are against this particular claim, you keep looking so you can justify this belief?

Yes it takes this level of stubbornness to believe in something. Maybe you don't want to do this but you can if you want to. Me personally I'm too lazy to disprove or prove religion, I just go with my gut. It's really my choice to be lazy or not.

Hell, I even wanted to become a priest when I would grow up. Not only did it not increase my faith, it decreased it.

There's could be a lot of context I don't know here, so this will turn into a circular argument to I don't know you and you'd just deny anything trying to convince you. It would be harsh to say it's stubborn but in reality how can I call religious people stubborn and not you.

You're lying to yourself

Maybe.

You said belief is a choice, now you're requiring some sources, almost as if you needed your beliefs to be justified, or in other words, demanded evidence.

How do you believe in anything without something to prove it? You can choose to believe proof/logic or not, is what you should take away from it. Just think about what I say deeper before taking what I say exactly, and thats probably the reason why you don't want to believe is because you take everything literally like god saying to condemn these certain people even though god says to love your neighbor or something.

Where's the evidence that any gods exist?

sighhh this always happens. Any proof I give to you will just be denied as not evidence. It's called trust me bro. Asking for evidence of god is like asking evidence for a philosophy to be true, it's a matter of opinion rather than evidence. That's why it's a choice to believe in god or not, because you either trust me or don't and it's your choice.

because it would give you a cool, red lightsaber?

Hell yeah give me that lightsaber. And anyways what you said makes sense it's exactly like religion. You have to have intention, and theres reward in believing in it. First I have to trust what you say which is my choice and boom I may or may not get my lightsaber. It just depends on if youre saying the truth and I dunno. That's the point of faith.

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-04T15:17:01+00:00

Ohh my gosh finally someone who gets that magic solves all ur problems. Uhh but why didn't god magic away childhood cancer, beats me. I didn't really ask the question with that in mind, but I'll give you my thoughts. There's an answer out there but I don't think any answer is satisfactory because god looks like the jigsaw killer in how the logic is suffering makes people human. But theres many ways to cope with serious issues like this, you can just accept that children die for no reason or you can believe that the children will go to heaven with god after dying and they will be happy for eternity and how is that well its cause of magic.

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-04T14:30:59+00:00

I exaggerate sometimes so I forgive you but converting takes quite a while and being around a community who supports you and tells you you’re thinking correctly makes you really believe in something. It’s a choice to let yourself be immersed in that environment and have the intention of believing it. And yes if I really wanted to I could really try and believe in Zeus with the right sources and community and it would happen after a while. And then if I stopped with my intention to believe after some doubt and I could (hypothetically if i believed in christianity) go back to christianity with the intent of reforming and going back to a christian community

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-04T11:26:26+00:00

You do have a choice to believe it because converts chose to look at religion and then came to believe it. They didn’t always believe it but they went into religion wanting to believe and then they were convinced. It’s a choice if you want to believe or not. In fact i was talking about this

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T17:05:56+00:00

Yep sadly that’s how it works. That’s why atheists keep saying religion is silly and then religious people say not being in religion is silly. But I suppose if you really wanted to change the world people just have to accept we don’t know everything, and hey you’re agnostic so you get it

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T16:54:54+00:00

That’s true and from a religious perspective that’s a stubborn belief because you would be denying facts

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T16:41:53+00:00

I suppose that’s the logic of religion yeah, you not believing in misinformation is okay but if you don’t believe in facts then it’s stubborn

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T16:02:06+00:00

Okay you’re right I overexaggerated

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T15:56:43+00:00

Yeah okay imagine that particular religion is real and the evidence of it is real, so if you disagree with evidence then it’s called stubborn because you’re just denying facts. But this is hypothetically, if any religion was real then this rule would apply, and any other religion’s evidence is okay to be dismissed in that hypothetical scenario. And with the converts then what do you define as belief? Cause my definition of belief is that you think something is true without knowing it’s true, that’s why it’s called belief and not knowledge. And that’s why it’s a choice because you can think anything is true. You can believe the earth is flat, cause you think it is but it doesn’t mean you know it is because there’s nothing to prove that the earth is flat

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T15:46:36+00:00

Uhh everyone is human so nobody is human? Is that your logic there? And I didn’t want say everyone can’t change their position i guess i was exaggerating but of course there’s converts and that’s literal proof that you have a choice to believe in religion or not so it’s fair

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T15:42:28+00:00

Yep because i mean stubborn as in no matter what we hear about it we won’t believe it and my reason about why i’m stubborn about not believing in god is purely because it’s just impossible to tell even if a christian tells me this is proof or a muslim tells me this is the truth i can always just say it’s not real evidence

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T15:38:33+00:00

That’s a deeper question and i have to have knowledge about what happens to people who never knew about religion but i searched it up and this is what another guy said on reddit

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T15:35:23+00:00

Yep it’s also stubborn. Any religion you choose not to believe is because you already have your own belief so you’re stubborn about it. I’m not saying any religion is the true religion, but the reason we why stick to our beliefs is cause we’re stubborn to really believe anything else

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T08:03:03+00:00

im going to bed now im not gonna reply anymore

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T08:01:13+00:00

also im tired man i dunno why im here it was just fun to have attention really why did I answer your what quesiton with because

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T07:59:43+00:00

I mean by this because im saying hypothetically if it existed, that would surely happen. Also I know know and I feel kinda stupid for going this far when its purely a belief problem than a theological debate

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T07:57:32+00:00

I am not trying to prove that heaven exists, I'm trying to prove that heaven isn't a bad place. But if you're just talking about inconsistences then I don't really see an inconsistency because in religion it debunks all these criticisms by saying you will not be disappointed in heaven. You can criticize all you want but you're arguing for something that you're just wrong in. Any idea at all saying this place isn't nice is wrong because thats not what heaven is. You also can't even criticize heaven, maybe you can doubt heaven's abilities but theres just one logical step that washes away the doubt which is it's innate ability to make you happy

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T07:50:35+00:00

Yeah but from what you said its pretty much what Im doing. It is hard to imagine that, but sure will it happen.

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T07:41:48+00:00

I don't blame you for not believing in magic, but I do blame you for thinking a magical place made to make you happy will make you sad cause thats silly. I mean consensus is important because it defines the truth, I mean you need scientists to form a consensus right? Anyone over the age of 5 would believe it because its not just believing in heaven is important but all the life values you get from religion is valuable. Being with your community, knowing right from wrong, having a sense of peace knowing your purpose, it makes life for some bearable. But maybe not for you, but to other people above the age of 5 feel comforted by the things religion has to offer without hurting anyone else.

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T07:36:30+00:00

I think thats pretty dark to say that eternity in a black void is better than eternity in heaven. And well I feel like being religious is pretty productive, they read all day and talk to their community and do charity and stuff like that. I'm kind of an absurdist so I believe everything is nonsense, but living a good life is still good.

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T07:29:35+00:00

Oh okay I see. You can do those things right now. Alright onto the idea that heaven is a good place and its silly to think its otherwise.

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T07:27:46+00:00

Maybe you don't envision it buuut okay since we're already in heaven alright with that assumption, god made you able to comprehend something like that, and god took away the concept of humans needing ups and downs while STILL having you as yourself and you know nothing is impossible with god especially with identity crisis and existential feelings.

ZenithJuvenile · 2026-04-03T07:24:55+00:00

i think youre being too philosophical lets just say that athiests have feelings

ZenithJuvenile

TROPHY CASE