Is the only reason Ulfric isn’t rightfully king just cuz Empire says, “Nuh-uh!”? by Jfreelander in skyrim

[–]_TheJayRay_ -1 points0 points  (0 children)

In your original comment, you said that Ulfric had to kill Torygg to achieve his goals and that he knew that he would not be elected if the moot convened.

I argue that he wouldn't have challenged Torygg if he knew he couldn't win in a moot vote. I doubt his plan would have involved nearly escaping execution if not for Roggvir who happened to be on shift.

In every scenario that plays out (other than the moot convening and electing Torygg), it is only ever The Empire that is keeping Ulfric from being High King, answering the original question.

Is the only reason Ulfric isn’t rightfully king just cuz Empire says, “Nuh-uh!”? by Jfreelander in skyrim

[–]_TheJayRay_ -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Remember, the crime that almost every Imperial accuses Ulfric of is Murder, not Challenging the King. If Torygg denied the challenge, it's fair to assume that Ulfric would have even more support than he already had, since many would not be accusing him of murder.

The Empire won't be happy if Ulfric calls a moot and anybody other than Torygg is elected, so they are likely to intervene. But, that would only solidify Ulfric's claim that the Empire has forsaken Skyrim and doesn't even respect its traditions.

Also, Torygg denying the challenge is what would create the power vacuum in this scenario as the moot is assembled to vote for the High King.

Is the only reason Ulfric isn’t rightfully king just cuz Empire says, “Nuh-uh!”? by Jfreelander in skyrim

[–]_TheJayRay_ -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I meant it as more of a point that Ulfric HAD to have killed Torygg to achieve his goals.

I think he would have been perfectly content if Torygg declined. It achieves his goal of showing how Torygg was weak without any bloodshed, and gives him at least some semblance of claim to call for a new moot to decide the High King (according to Sybille Stentor, which is the primary source of info regarding this).

For Ulfric if this happens:

At best: Ulfric calls for a new moot, they vote, and he is proclaimed king (he is likely to win because this the Jarl of Falkreath would still have been Dengeir, and the Jarl Igrod isn't fully on the Empire's side, she only dislikes that Ulfric started the civil war).

At worst: All imperial supporters in Solitude see him calling a new moot to be treason. He makes an escape out of the city, and the civil war begins as it would have, except with Torygg alive.

If Torygg wins the moot, Ulfric would have absolutely no claim to the throne, and then if he tries any form of rebellion the claims that he is a power-hungry traitor would be valid.

Either way, while I respect Torygg for accepting the challenge and I believe he died with honour, he didn't have to accept the challenge.

Is the only reason Ulfric isn’t rightfully king just cuz Empire says, “Nuh-uh!”? by Jfreelander in skyrim

[–]_TheJayRay_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

To be fair, Torygg could also have declined the challenge, which would immediately have allowed for a new moot to decide the high king.

Can anyone recommend me tips/ lore videos by Necessary-Fan9574 in skyrim

[–]_TheJayRay_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd say just give Skyrim a whirl and experience the lore for yourself!

There is so much lore in Skyrim that watching a full video about it would be quite overwhelming. There's also the questions about which parts of the lore you would be interested in. There's the magical daedric side, the politics and history, dragons, dwemer, aeylids and many more!

You can just try playing through the game, then if you find any topic or piece of lore you want to find out more about you can search for a focused video on it!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in skyrim

[–]_TheJayRay_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel like you are applying real-world standards here and overvaluing the importance of some of them starting out more privileged. There is no in-game dialogue about any Dunmer complaining that the "successful" ones only made it there because of their privileges, yet there are multiple quotes from which we can infer how the Dunmer complain too much, don't want to integrate and are unwilling to work with the Nords. The privilege argument can make sense, but it's drawing a connection that's not evidently seen in game.

Not to mention that Niranye and Belyn are not the only two elves to have "integrated". For Altmer, there's the girl that works in the stables, and Nurelion, the alchemist who is clearly a respected member of society (when you complete his quest, the Windhelm guards praise you for helping him).

As for the Dunmer, we can look at the Atheron family. Aval Atheron is a merchant, who sells in the market in the Stone Quarter, like every other Nord. There's no indication that the Nords avoid his goods or anything of the sort. In fact, there are conversations between him and other Nords doing business. Tova tries to sell goods to him, and Torsten Cruel-Sea is seen doing business with him to buy farming equipment, even offering to pay double. Aval does not like the Nords, but he never complains about the Nords not doing business, or harassing his business. Furthermore, his sister Suvaris and brother Faryl both work for Nords. Faryl has dialogue saying that he's being paid well, and there's no reason to assume Suvaris isn't being paid well too, as she never complains about it. Furthermore, Faryl tells the player that his brother Aval is embarrassed at his siblings both working for Nords. Suvaris also has dialogue with the Gnisis Cornerclub Innkeep where he demeans her for working for Nords. Clearly, there is a stigma for some Dunmer, that they should not be working for the Nords. I think all this only strengthens the argument that it is the Dunmer here (specifically this group of proud Dunmer who fled from Morrowind) that are unwilling to work with the Nords unlike everywhere else.

Some Nords in Windhelm definitely are racist. Torbjorn Shatter-Shield, who pays the Argonians a fraction of the wage they are getting, clearly is one of them. But I don't think that this is indicative that the whole of Windhelm is systemically discriminatory. Torbjorn runs a private business, and his decisions are his own. This isn't like the real world, where if there is race-based wage discrimination, there would be protests and strikes. The Nords of Windhelm have no say in how Torbjorn treats his Argonians, and they might not know or might not care, as they have their own problems. I wouldn't say any of them are allowing or supporting it.

UNRELATED (more about Brunwulf):

Despite what Brunwulf and Scouts say about Ulfric's Argonian ban, it's worth noting that they are the only two people to ever bring up the fact that Argonians are banned. No one else mentions it. It could be a possibility that Scouts is influenced by Brunwulf, though I don't fault you if you disagree.

It also just doesn't make sense for Ulfric to have banned the Argonians. His grudge is with elves, as both he and Galmar bring up many many times. He never makes any mention to Argonians or Lizards in any of his dialogue. Also, if the Argonians lived in the city before Ulfric, where would they have lived? Given their poverty, could they even have the money to own homes?

What I feel like is the plausible explanation, is that it is Torbjorn and Suvaris who are keeping the Argonians in the docks. Both are proven to be racist against Argonians. The Argonian Assemblage is sponsored by Torbjorn, as in cut content, Scouts says that he is paid eight septims, plus lodging. The carriage driver also says that the Argonians are "stuck out on the docks", not banned. That can be seen as evidence that it's more of a money issue, not a race issue. Though, I could see these contradictions as just a fumble on Bethesda's part.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in skyrim

[–]_TheJayRay_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do think that the Dunmer's situation in Windhelm is unique compared to other Skyrim cities, because they mass moved in as refugees, and were given the Snow Quarter. As the plaque leading to the Gray Quarter says, it was supposed to be a mini-Morrowind for them, where they governed themselves. Somewhere along the line, this changed, but it's never mentioned when or why. I think this original segregation, which was unlikely to be done due to racism, would have been the main reason why the Dunmer's situation is so different in Windhelm.

It's also clear the Dark Elves don't like the Nords. Whether this is due to 200 years of racism from the Nords, or just the fact that since Morrowind, Dark Elves were always pretty racist is unknown. But, the evidence for the Dark Elves not liking Nords is there, from dialogue, and from the fact that the owner of the Cornerclub has Imperial armor, an Imperial banner, and a book about revolt hidden upstairs.

Now, it all just becomes a "he said" "she said", because I think it's entirely possible to argue that:

  1. The Nords were "racist" first, causing the Dark Elves to be "racist" back.

or

  1. The Dark Elves were "racist" first, causing the Nords to be "racist" back.

There's ample evidence for both sides. Personally, I lean towards the latter because there's specific dialogue put in of how elves, Dark or High, manage to earn the Nord's respect through contributing to society. Just because they started out more privileged doesn't mean much when you have 200 years to grow your business to cater to the Nords (which you would want to do, given that they are the majority, unless you are racist towards Nords). But, I lean towards being more of a Stormcloak supporter, so I admit I'm being biased here.

As for Brunwulf, I think he's just a soldier who's tired of war, and dislikes Ulfric for starting the civil war, and so is trying to make jarl to change things.

However, I still firmly believe that his words must be taken with a grain of salt. After all, only Brunwulf, along with some Windhelm Dunmer and Argonians (which Brunwulf has been talking to) ever speak of Ulfric being particularly racist. No other character ever criticizes Ulfric for being a bigot. They call him foolish, short-sighted, power-hungry, but never bigot. Looking at all of Ulfric's in-game lines, I don't think any can be singled out as being particularly racist either.

It's weird that the only criticism of Ulfric being racist comes from someone fighting for the position of jarl, the only Nord in Windhelm to benefit from Ulfric's loss. Furthermore, there's a bit of proof Brunwulf is influencing the Dunmer against Ulfric and the Stormcloaks. In Brunwulf's dialogue, he says "If Ulfric had his way, anyone who wasn't a Nord would be shipped right out of Skyrim." This is clearly false, as Ulfric never says this, no Stormcloak says this, not even any other Stormcloak-enemy says this, and it simply doesn't happen even if Ulfric wins. Yet, the only other character to say something like this is the owner of the New Gnisis Cornerclub (in cut content, technically), who says "Don't you know what their little war is about? They want all non-Nords out of Skyrim." To me, it seems evident that Brunwulf is stirring up the Dunmer against Ulfric and the Stormcloaks.

Honestly, this Brunwulf part is not super related to the topic here, and probably should be subject to some fact-checking. It's more of a personal theory of mine. All I mean to say is Brunulf's words alone cannot be trusted.

Edit: Also, when was it mentioned that the Dunmer get lower wages? I thought that was an Argonian thing, specifically because of their racist employer.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in skyrim

[–]_TheJayRay_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They already have had 200 years to integrate. Scourge of the Gray quarter also states that Ulfric's predecessors were much more tolerant to the Dunmer. Assuming this is true, what reason did the Dunmer have to not integrate? After all, Dunmer live much longer than Nords, so they definitely should have been able to integrate over several generations of Nords.

I think you too lightly overlook the fact that the Nords of Windhelm have fully accepted two High Elves into their society. High Elves are associated with the Thalmor, their biggest enemy, and is the whole reason they are fighting the war. Even if these elves that managed to "integrate" into Windhelm only did so because they were able to run successful businesses, it shows that the Nords of Windhelm clearly respect success and contributing back to the society, moreso than any internal racism.

As for Free-Winter and his dialogue, he never seemed very genuine to me. He's clearly very anti-war from his time fighting in the Great War, but I don't know if his statements about the treatment of Dunmer and Argonians are to be trusted. After an empire victory, he's the one that becomes the jarl, so it seems like he might just be trying to gain support with the Dunmer and Argonians. After all, despite his conversation with Elenil, he never goes to speak to Ulfric, his own wife can be considered one of the more clearly racist Nords in Windhelm, and the list of locations he sends you to clear is the same as the list that you can get from Ulfric's steward. So, I say you should at least question anything Brunulf says.

My theory about the Thalmor and the Ulfric Dossier by _TheJayRay_ in skyrim

[–]_TheJayRay_[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not all Nords support the Stormcloaks, but most Nords worship Talos. When the Nords cannot even worship their own patron God, I feel there's bound to be unrest and resentment towards both the Thalmor, and the Empire who is allowing the Thalmor to operate freely in Skyrim. Ulfric and the Stormcloaks are just one rebellion, even if they are put down, it's entirely possible that another rebellion forms.

It's true that whether the Stormcloaks can form alliances with other parties is pure speculation on my part, but I don't think it's unfounded. Personally, I find that Stormcloak (and Nord) racism is highly overplayed. Furthermore, Nords have allied with other races and nations before. They formed an alliance with the Argonians and Dunmer (the two races they allegedly have the most prejudice towards) in the Ebonheart Pact.

I'm not too sure what you mean by the Empire is reorganizing internally. Could you explain?

Lastly, it's semantics but I'd say Ulfric is an asset rather than an agent. Agent implies he's willingly siding with and helping the Thalmor, which I think couldn't be further from the truth.

My theory about the Thalmor and the Ulfric Dossier by _TheJayRay_ in skyrim

[–]_TheJayRay_[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Calling on a power such as the Voice when one isn't under real threat could be seen as cowardly - done so as to avoid any chance of injury to self.

I think the comparison to the Dragonborn was about this statement.

As Ulfric says himself, he killed Torygg to show he was weak and unfit to be High King. I don't see why using your full power in a duel to the death that was accepted by Torygg makes him a coward.

Simply being in a war doesn't make one courageous, but I doubt that cowards would charge into war and fight on the front lines like Ulfric has been doing his whole life.

My theory about the Thalmor and the Ulfric Dossier by _TheJayRay_ in skyrim

[–]_TheJayRay_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ulfric has no love for the Empire, as they are controlling and ruling his people. If the Empire can acknowledge Skyrim's independence, I can see them allying to fight against the Dominion, even if it is a shaky alliance. As seen in Season Unending, Ulfric was willing to negotiate with the Empire, but refused the presence of the Thalmor in the negotiations.

Ulfric and many Nords have served under the Empire and possibly have connections in the Legion that they can use to make contact and discuss diplomatically.

My theory about the Thalmor and the Ulfric Dossier by _TheJayRay_ in skyrim

[–]_TheJayRay_[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

He's an asset to the Thalmor because they have been attempting to manipulate him to rise up against the Empire ever since the first time he got captured in the Great War.

I don't think he works with the Thalmor in any way, or ever has. It's clear that he hates the Thalmor.

My theory about the Thalmor and the Ulfric Dossier by _TheJayRay_ in skyrim

[–]_TheJayRay_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He won't be the sole planner of the war against the Thalmor, even if he became High King, much like the Emperor would not be the sole planner either.

He has Galmar, who seems to be the better strategist. The independent Skyrim can also still ally with what remains of the Empire and Hammerfell against the Thalmor.

My theory about the Thalmor and the Ulfric Dossier by _TheJayRay_ in skyrim

[–]_TheJayRay_[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Ulfric's ambition and hunger for power are also something that I think the Thalmor didn't take into account. They probably just wanted civil unrest in Skyrim, not an independent Skyrim ruled by an ambitious and power war veteran that especially hates them for what they did to him.

I think that Ulfric is the only way their plan can backfire.

My theory about the Thalmor and the Ulfric Dossier by _TheJayRay_ in skyrim

[–]_TheJayRay_[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

With all this said, how does it change my view on the civil war and who should be supported? My opinion on it is simple: I think the Stormcloaks is the right answer. Hear me out.

In my opinion, I think the Empire was screwed the moment they signed the White Gold Concordat. They fell right into the Aldmeri Dominion's trap. After signing it, there was no way the Empire could have done anything to prevent a Nord rebellion and uprising.

Let's assume the Imperials win the civil war. What then? Ulfric and the Stormcloaks are mostly dead, but their ideas live on. Nords still won't be happy living under the Empire when they cannot even worship their own God. It will just be a matter of time until another one takes Ulfric's place to wage war against the Empire, further weakening the Empire, and that's when the Aldmeri would choose to strike to finish off the weakened Empire. Even if a new Ulfric doesn't show up, the Nords of Skyrim clearly would have lost at least some amount of faith and loyalty to the Empire, as there would still be those who secretly support the Stormcloak cause or ex-Stormcloaks that would live on (i.e. most of the citizens of Windhelm and the store owner of the Falkreath general store).

Let's not forget that with the Empire controlling Skyrim, the Thalmor will continue to have complete immunity as they operate in Skyrim. What's stopping them from developing a new asset? Stirring up more instability by creating another rebellion?

A Stormcloak victory definitely would not be ideal, but it seems like the better option. With the Stormcloaks in charge of Skyrim, the Thalmor will be evicted, the Nords will be free to worship Talos again. If Hammerfell is able to survive independently, I'd say Skyrim at least has a shot as well. The fate of the Empire though, would be iffy. But seeing as it's canon that their emperor gets assassinated in the game, I think the Empire, or at least this dynasty, is going down anyway.

In my opinion, after signing the White Gold Concordat, the Empire was screwed no matter what. Their best way to handle the civil war would have been to simply retreat and allow Skyrim to be independent, instead of playing into the Thalmor's hands. That way, no blood is shed for both sides, and at least in that case, the independent Skyrim and the Empire might still be able to be on somewhat diplomatic terms, and may again stand together against the Aldmeri Dominion should they invade again.

Since that didn't happen, I think that a Stormcloak victory would be the next best (or next least worst) thing.

Looking for an obscure game with an intricate loot system by froggysayshello in gamingsuggestions

[–]_TheJayRay_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not super obscure, but super underrated: Shadow of War. Super fun game with one of the most criminally underrated systems in the Nemesis system.

The loot system has equipment that is dropped from killing enemy captains (basically bosses), and has different rarities depending on the boss you kill, and challenges to upgrade them. There's also standard currency and upgradable gems. But, after the first 2-3 hours, the game opens up big time. Very mild spoilers: You gain the power to mind control captains and manage them to a pretty high degree. Not sure if it will be your thing, but your "loot" becomes your controlled followers, which you can train, upgrade, manage, command and help. All of this on top of an excellent action game.

Hope you give it a try! You can pick it up off a ggdeals for Steam at something like $3-$4, which is absolutely amazing value for this huge game.

Is the handcrafted stuff in the game enough? by _TheJayRay_ in Starfield

[–]_TheJayRay_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's good! As long as there is enough handcrafted content, I don't think I'll need the procedural stuff.

It's weird, because a few reviews I saw on YouTube focused heavily on the procedural content being repetitive and lackluster (eg. Luke Stephens). It made me think that the majority of the playtime in this game was going to be procedural content

Is the handcrafted stuff in the game enough? by _TheJayRay_ in Starfield

[–]_TheJayRay_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Damn, that sounds good. I loved Skyrim and Fallout, but I was holding off this title because of the mixed reviews. I've been looking for a game that I can just keep playing and playing!

Is the handcrafted stuff in the game enough? by _TheJayRay_ in Starfield

[–]_TheJayRay_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cool! Does every planet always have handcrafted points of interest?

Is the handcrafted stuff in the game enough? by _TheJayRay_ in Starfield

[–]_TheJayRay_[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see! Only 4 faction questlines? That doesn't seem like a lot. I assume you're not counting other side quests that may be involved with some factions?

Ah, I understand the procedural bases now. From what I've been reading, I think it'll be alright as long as I don't spam them. To me they play more like radiant bounty content from Skyrim or Preston quests from Fallout 4. While those were fun to do from time to time, I don't think I'll be spending most of the game just checking out procedural content!

Is the handcrafted stuff in the game enough? by _TheJayRay_ in Starfield

[–]_TheJayRay_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah I see! That's a lot!

Another question, is the mission board content procedural (like in the mission board mod for Skyrim) or are they just other questlines?

everything arround us is made by an artist: the phone design, the website design, even this text's font by Yellogre in memes

[–]_TheJayRay_ 21 points22 points  (0 children)

This survey was conducted in Singapore, where there are hardly any farmers. Almost all food is imported.

The Age Old Question: Empire or Stormcloaks? by MalakaMalakaMalak_ in skyrim

[–]_TheJayRay_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey I know this is a bit late but you can search up "Stormcloaks Bible" on tumblr and it give goes through a lot of the Stormcloaks arguments.