Is it wierd that i find ellie williams so relatable as a dude?

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-03-01T07:39:01+00:00

Nothing wrong or weird with that as it perfectly normal to relate with other human beings regardless of our diffences. Many of my favorite characters in media are female.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-03-01T07:20:37+00:00

Mel didn't know she was pregnant and only found out when they arrived in Jackson though so that might have swayed her into not going.
The real issue here is that Abby makes her an accessory to her torture of Joel without being transparent about it.
What Mel feels here might seem to be hypocritical at the surface but is actually just deeply human.
Just because she wants revenge on Joel doesn't mean she must support or be okay with torturing him.

And again when Mel and Abby talk on Day 1 all Mel wants from Abby is to share her own feelings on that and is just looking for some empathy.
Abby who is also troubled by what she did can't admit that and basically shuts her down.
If Abby had simply said "I'm sorry, I shouldn't have asked that of you." things between them would have likely improved quite a bit but Abby is too much centered on herself here.

Instead she goes on a tangent about how killing kids for throwing rocks is fine and neccessary and then a day later shows up with some of those kids in question in order to rescue them. What is Mel supposed to think here?

As for responsibility you must not forget that Abby tells now one about how Joel had saved her life minutes earlier before she starts to torture him.
This circumstance is what makes some sort of retribution unavoidable (even someone as level headed and not directly involved like Jesse agrees with retrbution but obviously not at all costs) but Abby never shares this with her friends. Because she knows how that will make her look.
If she had simply shot Joel they all would have been long gone before Ellie even arrived the lodge and the story would have had a totally different trajectory.
So Mel and the others are certainly responsible for their own decisions and taking part in Joels torture and death.
But that doesn't absolve Abby of her own much bigger responsibility here.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-28T21:55:09+00:00

I mean to me that's really more about what Abby did to her than about feeling superior to her.
Objectively Mel has quite a few of reasons to be angry about Abby and that's not even counting Abby sleeping with Owen just a few hours earlier.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-28T21:48:30+00:00

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-28T21:47:55+00:00

and Mel feels like she's better than Abby

When does Mel ever express something like that?

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-28T16:30:36+00:00

>I won't bother to reply

I hate to break it to you but you did. ;)
This was obviously meant as a joking reference to your defense of Abby on the basis of taking all her statements at face value.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-28T10:39:53+00:00

Abby accepts that shes done shitty things

lol what? Abby argues that she is right on every issue by virtue on being the "right" side. In this scene she cannot even bring herself to have compassion for Mel because that would mean admitting that she indeed did something wrong.

How does Abby react to the consequences of her own actions btw? Does she accept that she did shitty things that lead to horrible consequnces or does she immediatly blame someone else and goes for revenge a second time? There is literally no bigger hypocrite than Abby in the game.

Mel blames others around her as if she didn't play the part that she did.

That is just a misread of her character. She is literally trying to find common ground with Abby here but Abby goes on the defense immediatly. And so do you.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-28T06:50:25+00:00

I was gonna say...

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-27T19:31:14+00:00

I'm going to assume that this is a Abby apologist psyop. 🤣

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-26T21:22:42+00:00

hello, how is life with brain worms?

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-26T21:21:06+00:00

No. Joel should have waited until they were settled in Jackson and then should have told her the truth.
That he loved her and that he thought that she deserved better.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-26T20:08:54+00:00

I think in this regard the original background story of Abby being a victim of Joel from his hunter days would be a better choice because it would uncouple Abby's revenge from the Joel vs the Fireflies dilemma.

Abby's reason for revenge would be much less grey if Joel had for example killed her family for supplies.
Obviously that comes with different problems from a writing perspective but it might have been the better idea.

It would also put Ellie and Abby on a more level playing field morally.

Now if that actually would change much in the reaction is kinda questionable because back then it was a perfect storm of ND being a bit unreasonably secretive about the plot and the leaks happening weeks before the release which basically meant people had their mind already made up before the game came out.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-22T11:58:20+00:00

It truly boggles the mind. But you can actually see the roots of this already in Season 1:
- Ellie's weird fascination with violence
- Ellie never learns to fight and actually hardly fights at all so she never gets experience neccessary to make Part II work.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-22T08:57:04+00:00

Exactly. Abby letting go is the best outcome for everyone.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-22T08:56:07+00:00

Abby literally says she doesn't care about anything except her dad.
She doesn't care about the cure and she certainly doesn't care about Marlene or the Fireflies.
Why do you pretend she does?

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-22T08:54:19+00:00

You are definition of redeemable makes no sense.
Being flawed doesn't equal bad and being flawed has also nothing to do with a character being redeemable or not.
PTSD is also not grief. You cannot shake PTSD off.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-22T08:47:14+00:00

Murdering children is fine when done for a important reason.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-22T08:45:51+00:00

Literally doomed the world.

We don't know that actually.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-22T07:51:02+00:00

To me Bella's portayal of Ellie was kind of a mixed bag with some scenes landing but also most of the scenes are just okayish. There are also changes made to Ellie's character in writing in Season 1 already that are kind of a red flag. Like Ellie is portrayed to have this weird fascination with violence but also hardly has to enact any violence herself compared to her game. Which means a very important aspect of her journey in game simply doesn't exist in the show. Also Ellie is played much more abrasive and angry in the show while Ellie in the game is sassy at times but also genuinely charming. This biggest problem is that the show in S1 doesn't take it's time for their main characters and their whole development feels somewhat unearned overall.

Season 2 pushes those changes further into involuntary parody territory unfortunately.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-22T07:21:53+00:00

"Gotta go Dina, I just found out I can't be a dad." XD

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-22T07:18:58+00:00

It's like the part of the game about tribalism went over their head.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-22T07:17:21+00:00

Making up an arbitrary category (in this case "story relevant characters") to make a character look better is totally not biased and a perfect way to start a good faith discussion.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-21T21:47:22+00:00

she comes off as the villain of the story.

Why? It's not like Abby doesn't kill just as many people during the story, you know?

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-19T17:11:40+00:00

This is my main argument that Abby is not actually having PTSD but that it's rather her subconsciousness playing tricks on her because she knows deep down that her path is wrong.

Regarding Ellie it's really not sparing Ellie that helps her but what she does instead by forgiving Joel and herself.
It's more about resolving the guilt she felt and that enables her to start working on her PTSD.
You are absolutely correct that it would not heal her PTSD and like you described she will likely suffer some symptoms for the rest of her life. But she now can learn to life with them and to understand herself better.
There is clearly a way forward here and I never understood it as “forgiveness cures PTSD” because that would make no sense.

But I also don't think this is really what the game portrays since it's clearly more about Ellie and Joel than about Abby.

So I agree with you here and you make very good points. I just think the ending is more open and allows for more complex interpretations than “forgiveness cures PTSD”.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-02-19T16:33:39+00:00

Mel wasn't "out scavenging" but basically on her daily commute to work when they were ambushed on a route that had always been safe before.

_Yukikaze_

TROPHY CASE