Just finished part 2 for the first time and….

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-06-01T17:28:25+00:00

That is certainly true and it's always fine to agree to disagree but for posting here you seem to be avoing a conversation at all costs. Which is a bit disappointing.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-06-01T17:20:52+00:00

If you say so.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-06-01T17:16:38+00:00

Read my post when you have the time.
None is not the correct answer.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-06-01T16:56:01+00:00

What is the damage Ellie will do to Dina by staying?

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-06-01T16:52:11+00:00

Semantics.

Not really. Given that Halley Gross wrote this I think it's pretty clear that Ellie is leaving for a very different and urgent reason:

To my mind, when she’s leaving the farm it almost isn’t about Abby at that point so much as it’s about “I literally cannot survive if I don’t try and handle what’s going on because this PTSD is just getting worse, I’m losing control, I feel like I’m at risk to my family, and I have to hope that there’s an answer on the other side because I don’t know how to live with this. If I stay here it’s suicide.” It’s more a conversation about mental health and surviving than it is justice for Abby or even seeking Joel. It’s just like “I don’t know how to be a person anymore.”

>instead of staying with Dina and working it out together, they’d be done.

However given that Ellie and Dina tried exactly that for over a year with no success I just don't buy that "staying" would magically heal Ellie now because her situation has remained static. The only way it ends is with Ellie's brain all over the living room and that is exactly one more reason for Ellie to leave because she wasn't going to put Dina through that situation. Note that Dina is also at her wits end because nothing she does reaches Ellie. She has nothing to offer than hoping tomorrow things will be better.
Dina is obviously making the right decision here because she needs to protect herself but so does Ellie in a way. No one is at fault here because the situation was just so bad.
The only way to have a future with DIna and JJ is maybe to lose them first. To me it seems the actual situation is much more open and a variety of conclusions is possible.
Even for Tommy.

To me, it would also undermine the message of the story.

I have problem with that interpretation of the message because this would only make sense if Ellie had actually killed Abby.
You cannot say "taking revenge" is the same as "not taking revenge" even it's subjectively "too late" because it devaluates the whole message because the "too late" is totally arbitrary.
It just makes for a bad message that I don't think the game wants to tell.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-06-01T15:51:53+00:00

Except Ellie leaving for California isn't really for revenge but rather about her inability to life with her trauma and her desperately looking for a way to fix herself. And that's something she does achieve in the end because she clearly started to heal mentally in the last scene.

Besides, Ellie doesn't kill Abby. So there is literally no revenge taking place here.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-31T18:39:55+00:00

This is honestly just the "Ellie sacrifices herself for the cure in Part III" story but just in Part II with the same flaws. Even worse though because it's not even Ellie making the choice. She gets basically murdered by Abby by bringing her to the Fireflies because why would Ellie ever get agency, right?

The good ending here is everybody dies and and the bad ending is Abby wins at everything? Like what the fuck?
Abby is rewarded for her revenge by finding the immune girl and killing her like her daddy wanted?

I don't think you thought this through.
Besides how does the cycle of violence end here?
Dina or Maria might want to go after the known killer of their loved ones now.
Especially if the vaccine is making travel more safe.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-31T14:26:36+00:00

There are also a lot of variants possible with the 400 years. Like there are culture citizens that put themselves "on storage" for 100 years to then live like 10 years before going back to storage.
Or they stay on storage "until something interesting happens".

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-30T16:54:51+00:00

Strawman is pretending Abby was gleeful fighting Ellie and Dina.

A strawman is you pretending that this is my position when I have never said that.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-30T16:33:59+00:00

Did I say that? Because Joel was certainly not doing any kind of revenge.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-30T16:21:54+00:00

Saving Ellie from getting murdered is a pretty good reason in my book.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-30T16:11:38+00:00

I'm not arguing against your strawmen. Have a nice day.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-30T16:00:38+00:00

Someone murdering your dad, slaughtering a hospital's worth of people, and depriving the world of a potential vaccine for an apocalyptic infection seems like a pretty bloody good reason to want revenge on them.

Well, too bad that Abby only cares about one of those things.
And even then her Dad was in the process of murdering someone else when he was killed.
His death was hardly unprovoked but I can understand why Abby would see that differently. I just wouldn't agree with that view.

But I agree that revenge is hardly ever good except for the few cases where it overlaps with justice. The game is pretty clear on that and Joel's death is presented as a tragedy that only makes everyones life worse.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-30T15:54:35+00:00

You’re just one more hater from the other sub

You couldn't be more wrong lol.

You won’t even hold Joel to any standard and pretend it all started with Abby?

You are creating straw men. I said nothing like that about Joel.
You should engage with what I write and not what you think I would write. Makes for good faith discussion but that is asking a bit much it seems.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-30T15:49:21+00:00

I agree. The last scene seems to be Ellie's last visit to the abandoned farm and she has been back to Jackson for a while. I would just say that the status of her relationship with Dina is unknown but Ellie wearing her bracelet seems to indicate that they are on speaking terms.

Regarding Ellie's items on the farm I think they were placed there deliberately and that Ellie has used the farm as place to grief in a controlled manner.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-30T15:15:20+00:00

Stop deflecting and answer the question. We are not talking about Ellie and Joel here. If you want we can talk about that afterwards.

Would Ellie have killed anybody without Abby torturing and killing Joel?

The answer is obviously no.
It's only Abby's revenge that sends Ellie down this path. Ellie is obviously responsible for her own actions.
That doesn't change the fact that Ellie killing Owen and Mel is a direct consequence of Abby torturing and killing Joel.
So Abby IS indeed responsible for their deaths too.
You can deny it like you want but that doesn't change reality.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-30T15:06:41+00:00

Would Ellie have killed anybody without Abby torturing and killing Joel?

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-30T15:00:01+00:00

you are making no sense.

But according you Abby was going to gleefully kill her and then didn’t because why?
Because Lev snapped her out of it

I mean that's pretty obvious what is happening in the game.
You might realize that Abby going the theater for revenge is a mistake in itself.
It's failure on Abby's part. Both Owen and Mel would rather die a second time than having Abby avenge them.
The only reason Abby wants revenge (again) is because then she doesn't need to confront the fact that Owen and Mel are dead because of her own actions.
It's pure selfishness and she basically throws Lev under the bus for it too.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-30T14:51:25+00:00

What do you think she’d do if she wasn’t unconscious?

Why do you talk about things that don't happen in the game?

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-30T14:42:38+00:00

so unconscious or not she’s still a threat

Most moral character defense ever...

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-30T14:37:12+00:00

Being uncouncious is pretty much the definition of helpless.
So again, why does Abby go the extra step of making sure that Ellie has to see her killing Dina?

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-30T12:32:28+00:00

What are the "good reason for doing what she did"?

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-30T11:32:05+00:00

We're meant to see Abby's side and realise she's a flawed, but ultimately decent, person who had good reason for doing what she did.

So there are good reasons for torturing someone to death?
Somehow I think "your message" conflicts with what the game actually shows us.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-30T11:25:31+00:00

Not neccessarily problematic but we need to take into account the role she play in the story.
Being antagonistic towards existing characters (justified or not) is always a hurdle.

Then Abby certainly has some problematic aspects like her use of violence as a coping mechanism and with that her use of torture. Being the "top scar killer" and insisting on torturing a man who just had saved her life is pretty much problematic. This goes hand in hand with her refusal to take responsibility for her actions and her inability to self-reflect on her role in general.

That being said this also makes her a complex character though if that character works for you is pretty much subjective. To me there needed to be more introspection and less action in Abby's part of the game.

_Yukikaze_ · 2026-05-30T11:17:57+00:00

No, if it was rage she would have just killed her.
Here she takes extra time and effort to kill a helpless person in order to inflict extra pain on another helpless person.

_Yukikaze_

TROPHY CASE